GYMN-L Digest - 28 Oct 1995 to 29 Oct 1995 - Special issue

There are 15 messages totalling 531 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Bican-South Africa
  2. Worlds and some questions. (2)
  3. worlds and some questions (2)
  4. NGJA Interpretations on the Web
  5. Subway World Gymnastics International
  6. Gymnastics Challenge
  7. Nude Gymnastics comp!!
  8. Pod coming to Subway, and more...
  9. gymnastics magazines
 10. Brandy Johnson
 11. Subway on TV?
 12. Ruth Moniz & Monique/Robin Allen (was Re: Worlds & some questions)
 13. Recruits, Fantasy Gymnastics


Date:    Sat, 28 Oct 1995 17:40:33 PDT
From:    ***@LSS.CO.ZA
Subject: Bican-South Africa

 Well, maybe you guys haven't seen Bican for a while, but I have! She's in
South Africa at the moment along with Oksana Chusovitina, Raegan Tomasek USA
(coached by Kelli Hill), Andrea Leman GBR, and Alexei Voropaev.(I'm not sure
who the rhythmic competitors are yet) Every time we get international
competitors out here they seem to get better and better. We have had, Mary
Lou Retton 1984, Belenky, Neculita ROM, Ivankov, Piskun and Tarasevich. Our
juniors are competing and it is great experience for us.
 I will send full results soon.


Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 14:58:00 -0600
Subject: Worlds and some questions.

          I just watched the team competition on TV and was really
          impressed. Although we didn't get to see compulsories, they
          showed a fair few gymnasts both male and female. No Aussies
          though. I really like Mitch Fenners commentating because he
          knows what he's talking about and doesn't rave on. I only
          found two mistakes in what he said - he gave the wrong score
          for Mo on floor and also completely ignored the fact that
          the Chinese men won at Dortmund. Still he is FAR better than
          Monique "I know everything because I trained with and
          competed against these girls" Allen. Here are some initial

          *The Chinese men and women were excellent! I had heard
          people say it but now do I ever believe it!!

          *The home crowd advantage definitely seemed to work for the
          Japanese men. I liked them because the are 'bouncy' but
          their form needs improvement.

          *For the vaulting replays they gave a kind of phase break
          down on the screen so the viewer ended up seeing the
          different twists and things. Kind of like a very jerky slow
          mo but leaving a trail. Maybe I can't explain it very well
          here! Anyway I love it . They also showed great camera
          angles and the distance from the horse. I've got it, kind of
          like if they used a strobe for the replay.

          *Meng Fei's Vault!!! That must be the most perfect pike
          barani I have ever seen!!!! I sat there stunned for about 10
          minutes. WOW!

          *Mo Huilan - terrific. What else can I say!!

          *I know some people don't like Simona Amanars routine on
          floor in terms of dance but I thought it was fine. It
          doesn't seem to be 'less' compared to others. But talk about

          *I don't like Dominique Moceanu's music on floor. It sounds
          like one of those built in songs from an electronic
          keyboard. Her dance doesn't seem to fit with the music
          either. I was struck by the resemblance between her and a
          young Nadia. Freaky!

          It's a pity that the coverage we got here down under was
          only 50 minutes but I am so gym coverage starved that i
          would have enjoyed 10 minutes!

          I have a few questions that aren't necessarily worlds
          1)Is Sergei Kharkov still competing?
          2)I loved Elena Grudnevas bars at the Olympics, what are her
          achievements in gymnastics?
          3)How are the injured Americans healing up?(Dawes, Chow,
          4)Can anyone give me any inf. on the French girls? they seem
          to be doing really well!(Teza, Canqueteau, Begue, Furnon,
          5)Does any one have the breakdown of the Aussies scores from
          worlds? Rachele?
          6)Which girl did the one arm giant/release in Sabae? My
          local newspaper said it was Lui Xuan but I didn't see her do
          it in the team comp.
          7)Does anybody have the October issue of IG yet? If so, what
          is in it? Poster?
          8)My dad and I were discussing why Ruth Moniz wasn't at 91
          worlds. I think she wasn't up to a high enough standard and
          dad thinks she was injured or too young. Can someone set us

          I hope we get the coverage of AA and EF down under soon.
          Nothing scheduled for the next week though. Sigh.

          ....Still on a "finally got some decent gymnastics on TV"
          high.....Tara Kennaway


Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 01:58:07 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: worlds and some questions

        I can answer some of Tara's questions.
1. Kharkov is competing in Germany, but I don't think he was on the team in
Sabae (see current events on the web).
2. Elena Grudeneva was on the Gold Medal Unified Team in 1992, and was the
alternate for worlds in 1991.  Also in 1991, she placed (I think) second
behind Gutsu at the European Cup.  (Hmm... Gutsu won the European Cup in
1991, then the Olympics in 1992... Khorkina won the European Cup this year.
Could history repeat itself?)
6.  Liu Xuan was the first to do the one arm giant followed by a one armed
Gienger, but she didn't do it at the worlds.  She did perform it at the Visa
Challenge earlier this year, but the judges rated the one arm giant a C, and
the one arm release as a D.  They chose not to perform this skill in Sabae,
according to Kathy Johnson, to send a message to the judges.  Please see IG's
coverage of this competition for more info.
7.  Moceanu and her coach Bela Karolyi was on the October cover of IG.  There
was coverage of the US nationals, the Olympic Festival, as well as a profile
of Jennie Thompson (hopefully we'll see more of her soon.
8.  As far as I know of Ruth Moniz, she was too young for 1991.  I think she
was born in 1978 or 1979.  I think I read that in IG somewhere.
        I hope I was able to help!


Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 08:44:45 -0500
Subject: NGJA Interpretations on the Web

This year's 1995 USA-NGJA Interpretations - v.2.0 October 9, 1995 (Men) are
now available on the web as an html document.  This version uses TABLES so a
browser such as Netscape (or one that will do tables) should be utilized.

The URL is:
or through my home page where there are links to other judging documents:

Thanks to Butch Zunich for providing the original ascii version for me to
convert to html.


p.s.: If this is a duplicate message, sorry - mailer problems.

Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:08:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Subway World Gymnastics International

Ameera also wrote:
>Hi, did you get my message?  I have another question. How many people are
>able to participate in this meet? I mean, why the big number of Canadian
>gymnasts?  How many gymnasts will each country be able to send to the
>meet?  Do you know of anybody that went to the rally in Monreal? I know
>that this forum is about gymnastics but I am curious.6

Hi, I got your message but the replies got bounced.  Hopefully you can pick
this up in the digest.

There are 20 competitive positions for the Subway World Gymnastics
Challenge -- 10 men and 10 women.  There are four Canadian men and four
women competing. This is not unusual to see in invitational competition,
but I speculate that this is also because travel is cheaper -- we don't get
to send gymnasts around the world much.  This is the only Canadian-hosted
international competition of this calibre every year.  The local
(Hamilton-area) competitors that will help fill seats are Theresa Wolf,
Jason Hardabura, and Alan Nolet.  I think of this competition like Skate
Canada, which also competes more Canadians.
Are there not more Americans competing at the American Cup, Visa and Budget

I personally don't know who went to stand on the streets of Montreal.  It
was very crowded and people had difficulty getting out afterwards.




Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:08:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Gymnastics Challenge

Ameera wrote to me, but my replies have been bounced with an unknown
host error. I wonder if she is still getting GYMN-L mail somehow.

>Hi. I am wondering do you beleive that Canada should have had the chance
>to participate in the Olympics.  What will happen to Alan Nolet and
>Richard Ikeda?  Will they be sent to Atlanta and what chance do they
>have of winning anything.  Also what about the women.  Do you have a
>play by play description of what happened to the Canadians and what
>Carol Orchard said about them.  Also what do you think about Candidan
>women participating in gymnastics in the US.  Are you a coach?  E -mail

I personally believed for a long time that it would be tough for the men's
or the women's Canadian teams to make the top twelve.  I was hoping they'd
change the cutoff point in lieu of the Soviet breakup to top sixteen, but
was resigned to the fact that Yuri Titov is still running the show.  The
women barely made the '92 Olympics having South Korea's disastrous beam
optionals at Indy to thank for.

On the CBC report, Dave Arnold (men's coach) and Alex Bard (women's coach)
commented that they did their best, were a bit messy in places, and felt
they were somewhat underscored.  Svetlana Degteva (women's coach) also
remarked that the girls lacked international exposure and experience --
that they were unknowns to the judges.  All this is honest and true.
Budget cuts to CGF have limited the amount of delegation travel.  The women
in particular also had the bad luck of the draw to start on beam in both
compulsories and optionals.  However, I am proud that the women all "hit"
(didn't fall) on beam and the men all "hit" on pommels.  Lena Degteva's two
falls on optional bars was disappointing.  Unfortunately, Carol Orchard and
Scott Russell made it look like it was her fault that they placed so low.
However, a look of the team scores will tell you that it wouldn't have
mattered if she got a 10.0 or a 1.0.

I also ponder the strategy used with regards to Stephanie Cappuccitti who
was only put up on bars.  It was apparent that this was done to showcase
her layout Jaeger, get it Coded, and give her a chance at event finals.  Or
was it to put up A good score?  Perhaps they should've waited for Puerto
Rico to showcase specialists.  Clearly, we are lacking AA depth.

Nevertheless, CGF has a lot of work to do for the next quadrennial, putting
all regrets behind them.  The fight for the six (3 men, 3 women) individual
spots for Atlanta will be tough.  There will be no mercy, no petitions, no
specialists.  We also have to be concerned about Canadian Olympic
Association standards that say the athletes have to be placed 18th or
higher in the world (which is up for interpretation right now). Whoever
goes has to be 100% healthy, AA-ready, and "meet-tough".  I'm not even sure
now that there will be an Olympic Trials --  probably just Elite Canada,
Nationals and training camps.  Alan and Rich will have to be in top form.
My picks right now would be Alan, Rich, and Kris Burley, and Jennifer
Exaltacion, Lena Degteva, and Yvonne Tousek.

Any chances of medals for Canada would exist only if there is a trampoline
or a sport aerobics competition at the Olympics.  ;^)  We have better
chances in RSG,... synchronized swimming, track, and rowing.

The NCAA system is great for Canadian gymnasts who seem to peak late.  Elfi
Schlegel was the role model and everyone followed her lead.  Collegiate
gymnastics here is dead.  When I competed for U of Waterloo, I was the only
one on the team for a couple of years.  My coach didn't even bother to go
to Nationals with me.  After I graduated, the gymnastics program
evaporated.  The level of competition in CIAU is not even close to NCAA.

I coach recreational athletes.  Due to low registration this session and my
current figure skating schedule, I don't have a regular group of gymnasts.
I'm working on a gymn-based off-ice training programme for skaters.

Thanks for your interest in Canadian gymnastics.




Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 13:00:42 -0500
From:    ***@COLUMBIA.EDU
Subject: Re: Nude Gymnastics comp!!

> I was reading a newspaper the other day, and they had a small article
> about an ad placed in a UK magazine about a nude gymnastics
> competition!!!  It is called Gymnastikos and "it features nude
> performances by five world ranked male gymnasts aged between 18-24.  The
> Athletes come from interational gymnastics teams and are among the best
> in the world"  Apparently they compete on all six apparatus and the
> competition is aimed at gay men.  Apparently, the ad deatures photographs
> of all five gymnasts peforming.
  My guess is they are cash-strapped ex soviet
> state gymnasts looking for some money from all the hard work they have
> put in.  It is a pity they have to get it this way.  Still, it would be
> great to know who they are if anyone can find out.  I am searching but no
> success at present.
>         Corey
I found the ad Corey referred to in the Oct. '95 issue of Gay Times.  The
ad is for a video of nude male gymnastics performances (not a
competition) and it does show pictures of men on most events.  The video
is called Gymnastikos, and can be ordered from Pride Video, 5 & 6
Parkside, Ravenscourt Park, London W6 0UU or call 081-741 2203, or can be
found at HMV, Tower Records, Virgin Megastores, Clone Zone or other video
suppliers.  If anyone would like a photocopy of the ad, contact me
and I'll arrange to send one out.



Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 13:23:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Pod coming to Subway, and more...

>>The Subway WGC will be presented by Alberto VO5 on CBC pm Saturday
>>2 from 3:00 to 5:00pm (Eastern).  I don't think they will show any
>old Rula
>>Lenska commercials, but you never know.  Women's Elite Canada is
>also going
>>on that weekend at Seneca, isn't it?
>Actually, as far as I know we're hosting Elite Canada on the 8th and
>9th of December.
>It's great to hear Pod's making another appearance this year in
>Hamilton.  I was on the floor last
>year and spoke to Gina Gogean and Anna-Maria Bican but I didn't get a
>chance to meet Pod.
>Maybe this year...
>p.s. keep up the great work, we all realy appreciate it!

Al is right.  Elite Canada is on December 8-9. WOT was I thinking? I
probably got the figure skating schedules mixed up -- the Canadian
Professional FS Championships is on December 2 weekend at Copps Coliseum
(same arena as Subway World Gymnastics Challenge). @^) (head full of death

Will I be seeing any of you folks at Subway?  And Elite Canada?




Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:34:00 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: gymnastics magazines

Hello all!  I think this question has come up before, but I went back through
my saved mail from GYMNL and I can't find it anywhere.  Could somebody list
some of the gym magazines and the address to write for subscriptions?  Thanks
so much.

Dave the Watchdog


Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:33:54 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Brandy Johnson

The last I heard of Brandy (about year-an-a-half ago) she was coaching
gymnastics at Brown's Gym in florida.  Does anybody know anymore about her
present activities?


Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 16:58:09 EDT
Subject: Subway on TV?

With all this talk of the Subway Competition, does anyone know
if there will be TV coverage in the US?
While we're on the subject, what is the next scheduled gym meet
on TV?



Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 14:17:28 UTC-0800
From:    ***@CS.UBC.CA
Subject: Ruth Moniz & Monique/Robin Allen (was Re: Worlds & some questions)

Tara wrote the following in her post:

          I have a few questions that aren't necessarily worlds
          8)My dad and I were discussing why Ruth Moniz wasn't at 91
          worlds. I think she wasn't up to a high enough standard and
          dad thinks she was injured or too young. Can someone set us

    According to the information provided during the Commonwealth Games,
Ruth Moniz was born in 1977, as was Joanna Hughes (who was born on December
22).  I don't know what the age limits were for '91 worlds or if Joanna was
there, but maybe this information will help.

Earlier in her post Tara had written:

          Still he is FAR better than
          Monique "I know everything because I trained with and
          competed against these girls" Allen.

    When I was looking up the information about Ruth in Australia's
Commonwealth Games team handbook, I noticed that the "Section Manager" for
gymnastics was Robin Allen.  It says that she is from Bruce, ACT and was an
official at the World Championships (it doesn't mention which one(s)) as well
as a manager for AIS.  Does anyone know if she is Monique Allen's mother or is
otherwise related to Monique?  According to the date of birth listed, she
turned 50 this year so she's in a plausible age range to be Monique's mother.



Date:    Mon, 30 Oct 1995 09:10:00 +1100
From:    ***@A2.ABC.NET.AU
Subject: Re: worlds and some questions

    > 8)My dad and I were discussing why Ruth Moniz wasn't at 91
    > worlds. I think she wasn't up to a high enough standard and
    > dad thinks she was injured or too young. Can someone set us
    > straight?

    I know Ruth Moniz competed as a senior on the last cycle because I
    can remember her doing the compulsory routines - she had heaps of
    trouble with the Yamishita 1/2 vault. Also, she competed in the China
    Cup in '93 and she was 16 then.

    She trialled for Worlds in '91 and also for Barcelona, but at that
    stage Australia had that older experienced group of Monique Allen,
    Kylie Shadbolt, Lisa Read, Jane Warrillow and Michelle Telfer. Throw
    in Jo Hughes and Brook Gysen and Julieanne Monico and these were the
    girls that made up the 91 Worlds and 92 Olympic teams. Ruth didn't
    quite make it. Most of these girls retired after Barcelona (all
    except Jo), and so Ruth became one of our oldest and most experienced
    gymnasts going into this cycle.

    Also, I don't think all that much of Monique's commentary either, but
    she really is a very nice girl. She was just thrown into it without
    any experience. Personally, I think the best Australian commentary
    we've ever had was Liz Chetkovich at the 92 Olympics.



Date:    Sun, 29 Oct 1995 20:09:41 -0500
From:    ***@ZEUS.TOWSON.EDU
Subject: Re: Recruits, Fantasy Gymnastics

        Actually, I think doing a Fantasy  Gymnastics would be no harder
than baseball or football.  I have been in Rotisserie (Fantasy) Baseball,
and it is really a fun thing to be apart of.  Gymanstics could be either
done for one big competition like World's or Atlanta 1996.  It could also
be done for a calender year.  Basically every "owner" would have six members,
and a couple of reserves.  These teams could be constructed from any of the
national teams.  The individuals scores would be added up to get an "owner's"
team score.  This might be hard to set up, but I think it could be done.

        Mikester Bee


Date:    Mon, 30 Oct 1995 12:13:27 +1100
From:    ***@COUGAR.VUT.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Worlds and some questions.

On Sun, 29 Oct 1995, Tara - wrote:
>           *Meng Fei's Vault!!! That must be the most perfect pike
>           barani I have ever seen!!!! I sat there stunned for about 10
>           minutes. WOW!

        Absolutely! it was fantastic.
>           *I know some people don't like Simona Amanars routine on
>           floor in terms of dance but I thought it was fine. It
>           doesn't seem to be 'less' compared to others. But talk about
>           tumble-a-rama!

        People have been constantly complaining about Amanar, but her
        floor and choreography was three times better than that Moceanu
creature.  If you really watch Moceanu, it is exactly the same
pumpy-jumpy horrible Zmeskal style.  Was it choreographed by the same
person ?  Sould they be fired and get a new day job ?  Yes to both

        I saw Ruth Moniz compete at the 1991 Nationals in Melbourne which
was also the qualifying comp for the worlds.  She was in fact old enough
for the competition and indeed competed at the senior level, but she was
not quite up to the standard of the top 7 girls.  She was probably about
the eighth pick.  It was awful, because they announnced the qualifyers at
the end of the session just before the medal ceremony, in front of the
whole crowd, without the girls knowing first, so it was a bit insensitive
to the ones taht didn't make it.  I remember seeling sorry for Ruth
having to go through that.
        Well have to go...
                        Corey Dyer.

        P.S- good riddence to Monique "Faaaantastic, good job, she didn't quite
reach the handstand" Allen!!


End of GYMN-L Digest - 28 Oct 1995 to 29 Oct 1995 - Special issue