GYMN-L Digest - 21 Jan 1996 to 22 Jan 1996

There are 11 messages totalling 350 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. GYMN-L Digest - 20 Jan 1996 to 21 Jan 1996 (2)
  2. Kim Zmeskal (2)
  3. Right or left
  4. Destroying our heroes?
  5. Transportation in Atlanta
  6. Fear
  7. Reese's Cup
  8. lefties
  9. UPCOMING EVENTS: Empire State Classic


Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 03:24:29 PST
From:    ***@CISCO.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 20 Jan 1996 to 21 Jan 1996

    From:    Anne --

    In my case, although i am right handed in "real life", my left foot is my
    push foot for leaps, and all cartwheels etc. are left. All of the other
    right hander's on my team go right in gymnastics.

Me too.  Right handed, left legged, I guess.

    3) boards positions (vault): kind of a general question, but has
    anyone here ever truely vaulted at body length? this is VERY hards for
    me, esp. since I am 5'8, so mine board would be well over 6 feet back!

It depends a lot on the sort of vault you're doing.  Remember that even for
something like a straddle vault, your body should be nearly vertical when
your hands hit the horse, so you need some time for your feet to rise. (I
think, however, that this doesn't happen very often.  A correctly done
staddle vault has to be pretty tough on the wrists.)  And of course in
Men's vaulting, a lot of the vaults required that the men travel the length
of the horse in addition to the springboard to horse distance.  I don't
think body length is unreasonable for any hand-spring like vault.  I have
no idea where the board goes on "modern" vaults (and I haven't followed
what high school competitions are like these days either, so I apologize
if this sounds completely archaic...)



Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 07:07:14 -0800
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Kim Zmeskal

beam and bars. It was right after her knee surgery when I saw her so it
was a while ago.I'll do my best to remember....
            On beam she did her trademark mount, front handspring split
jump, back handspring to two layout step-outs, gainer layout and a very
high double back. It was very impressive.
            On bars I am not as familiar with the terms so I'll do my
best.... She did a jeger? , a lot of piroeting and a piked double back.
               I'm assuming that she's even better now because she also
did a floor routine there that was very good but it was so much better
in the RandR....


Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 10:55:49 -0500
From:    ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Right or left

Well, I've been unsubscribed for a few weeks, so I just read this thread
in a digest.  I'll put in my $0.02 too...

I'm right-handed (but do pretty well writing left-handed).  My leaps were
generally right (though I was decidedly more flexible on my left side), as
were my cartwheel-type skills and my front step-outs.  But my walkovers,
handsprings, layout step-outs and the like were left, which meant I had
to step out with the wrong leg to be able to do a front somi step-out to
a handspring (as in the '85-'88 compulsory).  Except Valdezes,
which I did right when I had one leg extended in front of me, but
left (more comfortable) when I had both legs bent.  Backwards I twisted
right, but I'm not sure which way I twisted front.  I think I went a
different way on running front 1/2's than I did on handspring front
1/2's (on V).  And if I recall correctly, I had the twisting-two-ways
problem when I tried front fulls.  I twisted handspring fulls (V) right,
but toe on 1/2's on UB I twisted left.  I did the '85-'88 FX compulsory
right (which meant doing the backwalkover pirouette with the wrong foot,
and the tour jete too, I think, as well as taking extra steps where
allowed).  But as it turned out, I did the '89-'92 compulsory left.  I
could do turns either way, and aerials too, though it was a bit weird
doing aerials left.  When I was having trouble doing turns to the right
on BB, I'd switch.

I'm firmly convinced this is why I didn't win the Olympics.


(But seriously, I would recommend making beginners stick to one side
whenever possible.)

Oh, and I do know one gymnast who, in college, learned to do fulls the
other way (she had been having trouble with them the way she originally
did them).


Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:31:51 -0600
Subject: Re: Kim Zmeskal

Hello, Kerry and all fellow Gymners...

> >On the subject of just
> >seeing her do the floor ex., perhaps she is doing a routine that will
> >knock the socks of the judges and she wants to keep it between her and
> >her coach. Who knows?
> Okay, I don't know what he's talking about there.  I loved Kim's floor

   What I meant to say was that perhaps she has been practicing some new
moves without exhibiting them to the know, like a car
manufacturer not giving out information about an improved vehicle to keep
the public guessing...

--Michael :)

   "Kim Zmeskal's #1 fan..."


Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 13:07:37 -0600
Subject: Destroying our heroes?

This is both gymnastics and ice skating related.

After watching the situation with Nicole Bobek play itself out last night,
I sat down this morning and thought a little. What I've come up with is
this: Inadvertently, and perhaps not entirely as Joan Ryan might have
intended, "Little Girls In Pretty Boxes" made a point. The point is this:
In appearance sports such as gymnastics and figure skating, we almost
encourage our athletes to be abnormal.

Now, before anyone jumps down my throat, I am not referring to eating
disorders. I am referring to behavior. Nicole Bobek is a case in point,
and I have a feeling it had a bearing on the IMC decision last night to
deny Nicole a bye to worlds.

In many ways, Nicole is a typical teenager. She acts a little out of it
sometimes, she doesn't always behave, and she has got a lot of the typical
problems that accompany that. Hence the decision by everyone to label her
a rebel. Whereas an athlete like Michelle Kwan, a demure fifteen yr old,
is hailed as the sports next superstar because she is so put together.
Whose behavior is more typical?

In gymnastics, most of the elite competitors don't seem to vary too much
in terms of behavior. At least, we really don't hear about anything bad.
But at the college level, we see a similar situation to Nicole and Michelle.
Two states, Alabama and georgia. On one hand, you have the Alabama girls,
who go out of their way to emphasize that they are classy, that they are
ladies on and off the floor, that they do stuff together all the time, are
a family. Then you have georgia, who is led by an outspoken coach and whose
girls are most definitely NOT demure southern ladies. Again, which is more

Before any kills me or flames me, I do not mean to say any of the Alabama
athletes are "abnormal" or have problems. The same goes for Michelle
Kwan. I am however, saying that just because they are perfect, do we have
the right to expect it from everyone?

Appearance sports seem to want to eat their heros sometimes. With their
judging the most subjective, factors such as behavior will almost certainly
enter a judges mind, I feel, especially when the media hypes it to the
extent of the Georgia/Alabama and Nicole Bobek situations.

The question is: Do we have the right to make those decision?

***a note to the skating people: I'm not nessecarily saying Nicole deserved
the bye no matter what the situation was. But I have to wonder if the
controversy surrounding her made a difference.


Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:29:19 -0600
Subject: Re: Transportation in Atlanta

The Georgia Dome, home of the Artistic Gymnastics, is serviced by the
metro Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority (Official- and only rapid transist
system in Atlanta) known as "MARTA". There MAY be trains to Athens from
Atlanta since there is an Amtrak station in Atlanta that is NOT near
the subway/MARTA system but is serviced by buses in the city from the tarin
(I mean train) stations. You might want to call AMTRAK and see what they
have going.

With SO many people coming to Atlanta and the network of highways in and
around the city bad during normal rush hour, I am sure that there will be
something going on to get people out of the city fast. In fact, you may
not be able to get around Atlanta during the games in your own car and will
be forced to use public transportation. Trust me, it will be worth
it since the streets are already congested.

If you need anymore info about Atlanta and getting around during the
GAMES, you might want to check out the IBM home page and
see if you can find some information there.

I believe that the URL is:

If not, try a search engine under "OLYMPICS".



Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:51:31 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Fear

Hey everyone!

I need your help with something.  I am thinking of writing an article for one
of the gymnastic magazines about overcoming fear.  If you have any quick
stories or sayings that you use with your gymnasts, or that your coach used
on you, please send them to me!  I'd like to have both original
sayings/stories and quotes from other people, but please tell me where you
got the quote or information.  Any help you could offer would be great!  Be
as specific as you need to be!  Thanks!  See ya!



Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 15:45:57 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Reese's Cup

Does anybody here have a list of who is competing in the meet, scheduled to
take place next Saturday? Is Kim suppose to be competing? I hope she does,
and I hope she makes a great impression on both the crowd and the judges!!

Thanx from a big Kim Z fan,

Hopefully we'll see the US on the medal stands in Atlanta!!!


Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 20:09:14 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: lefties

>1) Cartwheel, Back Walkover on beam. My cartwheel was right-handed (right
>hand down first). Thus I landed with my left leg forward. But for the
>walkover, I liked to lift my right leg, so I had to swing it forward first,
>which looked awkward, and wasn't truly a cartwheel-walkover.
I had this problem, but now I just let my leg kind of swing through so it
lands in front.  I never really thought about it.  Could someone tell me if
this is a deduction?

     I don't know why there are so many lefties.  I'm right-handed for
everything except gymnastics.  I taught myself cartwheels, and it just seemed
natural to go left handed.  I know some people who use both hands for
gymnastics, but are normally right or left handed.  It may have something to
do with coaching techniques (ie: coach demonstrates left handed, gymnasts
follow), or it could be just a matter of comfort, like if you've tried it
both ways, one just feels better. Well, thats just my $0.02
                                             Dawn :)


Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 23:08:09 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: UPCOMING EVENTS: Empire State Classic

The 4th Annual Empire State ClassicInternational Invitational gymnastics
competition will be held on February 23rd, 24th and 25th, 1996 at Yury's
School of Gymnastics, Albany, NY. The only gymnastics event of its kind in
the Northeastern United States, the Empire State Classic features world class
competitors from the US and Canada and this year features teams from Tula,
St. Petersburg, Yaraoslava and Moscow, Russia.

Competetive events will be held in individual, all around and team formats
for all age groups and skill levels from USAG Level 4 through Elite (levels
9, 19, and world class), for both men and women. The 1996 edition of the
Empire State Classic will also feature the USAG New York State Sectional
Championship and the New York State J.O. qualifier. Team events will include
high school competition for both men and women. All events will be held at
Yury's School of Gymnastics, 49 Railroad Avenue, Albany, NY. Admission is
$3.00 for children, $5.00 for adults and $10.00 for families of three or

For more info write <ANGMAR7547>



Date:    Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:57:32 CST
From:    ***@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 20 Jan 1996 to 21 Jan 1996

On Sun, 21 Jan 1996 Anne wrote:

>1) tuck jumps 1/1: must our knees really be chest high for b credit?
>2) cat leap 1/1: at what angles outward should the knees be?
>3) boards positions (vault): kind of a general question, but has anyone here
>ever truely vaulted at body length? this is VERY hards for me, esp. since I
>am 5'8, so mine board would be well over 6 feet back!!!!
1) On tuck jump full turns, the kneess must bend upward toward chest (not
kicking your seat), you must not "cheat" the turn be taking off early, and
you must have HEIGHT in the air.  No, knees don't have to be chest high, but
they must be lifted towards chest for correct body position.

2) Stand in 1st position with your natural turn out (don't force it).  Lift
your knees up 1 at a time.  That's just a drill for you to feel where the
turn-out should be.  Just like with tuck jump fulls, knees in front of you,
lifted toward chest (with the turn-out), no cheating the turn (which is
easy to do by crossing leg) and HEIGHT are important.  There's other ways
dancers do this leap, but this has worked in past for me when I coached a
high school team.

3)  Back in the old days, the board was back a body length (in the 1970's
when I was a high school gymnast).  Today, the board is in closer, and we
emphasize a shorter, faster preflight with a "pop" or repulsion into a BIG
after-flight (like a salto or twist or ??).  If you are working squat or
straddle vaults, you might want your board back a little bit more than for
a handspring, but in general NO, not 6 feet!

Hope that helps!



End of GYMN-L Digest - 21 Jan 1996 to 22 Jan 1996