GYMN-L Digest - 20 Apr 1996 to 21 Apr 1996

There are 13 messages totalling 550 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Gymn Forum Troubles
  2. TBA1 on Delphi USAGO
  3. Thanks Grace and Sherwin
  4. Offer for volunteering next August (WAG)
  5. WORLDS on ABC Television. (3)
  6. Worlds 96 EF (Part Four)
  7. Worlds 96 EF (Part Five)
  8. Worlds 96 EF (Part Six)
  9. Gogean's second vault
 10. Pae Gil Sue and Annia Portuondo's Olympic eligibility
 11. mens NCAA get together


Date:    Sat, 20 Apr 1996 09:10:00 MDT
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Gymn Forum Troubles

This list is about gymnastics, nothing else.  If you post random
non-gymnastics information, I guarantee you that the vast majority of our
subscribers (almost 800 now) don't like it!

Please don't quote entire messages in your replies.  Only snip the parts
that are necessary to make your post understandable.  We all got the
original message.

If you don't know what you are talking about, don't pretend that you do.
The most common complaint that I receive, particularly when meeting Gymners
in person, is from people who enjoy Gymn "except for the people who think
that they know a lot more than they do."  Watching gymnastics on TV and
absorbing each page of IG does not make you the ultimate gymnastics expert.
There are some people on this list who are more than willing to share their
(expert) knowledge, but why share when everyone already appears to know "the
facts"? I have learned so much from Gymn, but it seems lately that those
really good posts that you want to print out and save are few and far between.

Sorry for the lecture.  I and many dedicated Gymners have been watching the
forum over the last few months; consensus is that we have more fluff, flame
wars, and volumes of MISinformation than Gymn's entire first three years put
together.  With the Olympics coming up I expect that we will have a flood of
"guest" subscribers.  Set the tone for them of __fun and productive__ (and
friendly) debates and discussion about our sport.  While the last week has
seemingly improved, with Worlds, I must say that I don't have much faith
that it will last very long.

Let's get our collective act together now, so that Gymn isn't a complete
wreck during the Olympics!

Also, I just want to give a big thanks to Gymners like Grace, Sherwin, Dory,
Debbie, etc, who are consistently and generously providing Gymn with quality

Comments regarding this post are encouraged.  Please send comments directly
to me, George, or Debbie, as I'd rather not flood the list with
non-gymnastics posts!



Date:    Sat, 20 Apr 1996 09:10:00 MDT
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: TBA1 on Delphi USAGO

Garlfar Andrews and TBA1 on Delphi are not one and the same.



Date:    Sat, 20 Apr 1996 12:10:37 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Thanks Grace and Sherwin

In a message dated 96-04-20 11:14:10 EDT, you write:

>Also, I just want to give a big thanks to Gymners like Grace, Sherwin....

I second that!  I would like to thank Grace and Sherwin for providing the
quick, up to the minute Worlds action!  Mihai was watching the clock each
night for the time when results would be posted for MAG.

(I would've sent thanks directly, but I've already deleted their messages
with their E-Mail addresses.)


Date:    Sat, 20 Apr 1996 20:11:58 +-200
From:    ***@JET.ES
Subject: Offer for volunteering next August (WAG)

Dear Gymners,

I send to you an offer for volunteeering in a club, along the month of =
August, from one of the coaches of our club (Urgatzi Kirol Klub, =
Vitoria, Spain).

The references of the coach are:

Zurine Sanz (woman)
24 years old
Former gymnast in the Urgatzi Kirol Klub
National Judge
National Coach Certificate (WAG)
7 years of coaching experience in the Urgatzi Kirol Klub (with girls =
8-11 years old)

Zurine wants to improve her English in combination with an experience in =
a gymnastic club in August.

This offer could be OK for any country with English language: Canada, =
USA, Ireland, United Kingdom, etc.

If you could be interested in this offer, you can send a message to:



Date:    Sat, 20 Apr 1996 17:47:17 -0600
Subject: WORLDS on ABC Television.

I had to run back to campus after watching, so I thought I'ld ask:

1) Anyone know about the "NEW" move Khorkina was suppose to do but
didn't do? Was it a SHAPOSHNIKOVA-like skill?

2) Is San Juan in the bid for the 2004 Games? I saw that sign on the
wall in the arena.

3) Though I agree that Chinese were up against a wall with the one-arm
work, I have to say that I think that Cuban gymanst was robbed and she
should have won the gold on Vault. Her DTY was AWESOME and I can't
see how Gogean's 1&1/2 twisting Y and laid-out "pronounces 'piked' Phelps
won the title. Makes no sense to me.



Date:    Sat, 20 Apr 1996 19:00:37 -0500
Subject: Re: WORLDS on ABC Television.

1) I agree on Portuondo getting robbed. Not only was the DTY great, but
she really performed a nice piked cuervo. It wasn't so much that Gogean
piked the Phelps (Amanar's was piked worse) that it was twisting late.

2) I don't know so much that Liu Xuan not winning bothered me as much
as Servino's score bothered me. She really did a great job, and I think
outperformed the two gold medalists. Xuan's routine was terrific, but
lacked what I saw as phyiscal "tightness" in the bodyline.


Date:    Sat, 20 Apr 1996 19:57:33 -0400
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Worlds 96 EF (Part Four)

World Championships 1996

San Juan, Puerto Rico           April, 1996.

Event Finals (Day Two)   (Part Four)

Thanks very much for the nice comments after my posts yesterday!
The TV programme starts about 20 minutes late today so the
competition is already underway when we join it live...

The programme starts with Jaycie Phelps dismounting from
beam... the replay shows that Jaycie fell out the beam after
performing a front somersault and only 9.187 scored.

Rustam Charipov of Ukraine on the parallel bars. Quite steady
routine and Rustam likes it. Punches the air afterwards. 9.750
good score.

Little Alexandra Marinescu from Romania on beam. Backflip into
full-twisting back somi. flick/layout/flick/layout series. A
couple of jumps... she dismounted with the familiar flick
series into double tuck back. 9.812 and a lovely smile and wave
at the cameras. She takes the lead!

Valeri Belenki of Germany on the parallel bars... a little stumble
after his double front somi on the bars but recovers. 9.587

Dina Kochetkova or Russia next on beam. full-twisting backflip into
flick/layout; full-twisting Korbut... and repeated again in
combination. And a stuck double back dismount. Dina is happy too.
9.887 and she took the lead!

Vitaly Scherbo on p bars. Complex turns of the arms... but a little
jump forwads after his double back dismount.

The Greek Vasiliki Tsavdaridou started with a full-twsit yurchenko
mount... nice choreograh... sideways split jump into yurchenko
loop... full twist Korbut... double pike dismount. Vasiliki is
happy with each and every performance in this meet looks like and
a big smile :) 9.675

Alexei Nemov... looks good and perfect form. Nice routine finishes
with double pike back. 9.737 and 2nd place.

Tsavdaridou is still grinning. Even Nemov waves to the cameras. I
think the rotation is now over and the music blasts out...

Ah... a replay of Liu Xuan's routine on beam. Perfect form on the
apparatus from the Chinese as always... can she stick? flick
series ends with a nice two feet straight layout. Good double
tuck back dismount... score is 9.800.

Ivan Ivanov of Bulgaria (this is still a replay from tape I think)
on the parallel bars. Oooooh a nice element there that I haven't
seen before (sorry dunno what it's called) the German commentator
mentioned Geinger (?). the replay also shows a tkatchev type move...

Mercedes Pacheco of Spain on beam. Yurchenko mount. Korbut at the
end of a flick series... front somi... a bit hesitant here and there
but no major mistakes. full-twist Korbut... dismounting with a
double pike. Not too bad. 9.637.

Ivan Ivankov on PB. double back on the bars... 9.725

Gina Gogean on beam. front somi mount. side leap. flick to two feet
and off she comes! Gina gets back onto the beam in an instant
and continues on without much hassle. Her full-twisting double
back dismount is landed very low and has to take a big step sideways.

Ivankov is having treatment on his arm where bleeding is showing...

Jung Jin-Soo from Korea on parallel bars. Woaah I thought he's gonna
fall off then... finishes with a very stuck double back dismount!
The crowd cheers and he's delighted.

Dom Dawes hoping she'll get back to form after disappointment
yesterday. flick/layout/layout/layout. double spin I think! front
somi. full-twist dismount not too much problem. She's still
quite emotionless even though the crowd is cheering loudly. 9.800.

Pae Gil Su from North Korea. A step back on his dismount otherwise
it looks good.

Okey the programmes goes into adverts so I guess that is all the

Help they didn't show the final score board so I don't know what's
all the scores are! Kochetkova won the beam I think and Rustam
charipov won the parallel bars. Hopefully I can get the full scores
later. As for now I'll send this off.

The mens vault seems to be missing entirely too...



Date:    Sat, 20 Apr 1996 20:56:30 -0400
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Worlds 96 EF (Part Five)

World Championships 1996

San Juan, Puerto Rico           April, 1996.

Event Finals (Day Two)   (Part Five)

Gymnasts warming up for the final rotation.

Warm-ups done and Ludivine furnon starts her floor. double layout
but rebounces back off the mat. Steady on cameraman... full-in
back-out second pass. A lot of dynamic dance which is quite
characteristic of the French these days. Rudi punch front last pass.
don't think this will medal like last year for her. 9.712! A bit
high me thinks.

Scherbo first up on the high bar. one arm into Tkatchev... and
again plus a Geinger at the end of it. a stuck full-twist double
layout dismount. He is quite happy. 9.762

Little Lyubov Sheremeta from Ukraine. full-twist double front!
Back across the diagonal into full-twist double back! Birdie
music. Complex front tumbling into 2 & 1/2 twist punch front. An
Ukrainian judge congratulates her... (not one of the floor
judges!) 9.800.

Chainey Umphrey from USA. three tkatchevs (two of them piked) in
a row into Geinger. And a steady full twist double layout dismount.

Lavinia Milosovici on floor. American medley music getting ready
for Atlanta (the Romanians always do that). double layout. 2 & 1/2
twists punch front. full in back out dismount. The tumbling is good
as always. 9.800 as well.

Zoltan Supola of Hungary on high bar. Tkat Tkat Geing. One arm
giant into Geing. triple back dismount but hands down! Shame about
the end. Only 9,375

Roza Galieva sporting a new Russian outfit. double layout (everybody's
doing it these days it seems). Nice jumps. the middle front tumbling
pass nearly left her outside the floor area. And I think a double
pike to finish. 9.637 for Roza as she lies back.

Jesus Carballo of Spain. Hmmmm strange elements that I'm afraid
I don't know the names of. Full twist double layout dismount. 9.800!

Gemma Paz from Spain whose veins are showing very clearly on her neck
even as she stands. Very very quick movements! Two tumbling pass in
a row to start. Triple twists dismount. She waves happily to the crowd.
Only 9.775 and the crowd boooooooos.

Richard Ikeda! Ouch he fell heavily off what looks like a tkatchev!
(I can't see clearly with his black trousers) And he rolled over again
off his dismount. He smiled :) oh well not his day. Ah he realised
that he's not gonna catch his tkatchev thus he turned so he fell on
his back. 8.075.

Gogean starts on floor too with double layout. fonr tumbling second
pass ending with two front somis. And the "Gogean dart" full twisting
double back to finish. 9.850 is she gonna win the floor again? All
smiles from Gogean.

Aljaz Pegan from Slovenia the high bar specialist. Caught his half
twist Gaylord! Tkat Tkat Geing to follow. Triple back dismount
and a step forwards. Hmmmm just that little error in the step in
the end, otherwise a clear winner me thinks. 9.750 and only third
at the moment.

Vasiliki Tsavdaridou of Greece whom I think qualified for three
apparatus finals! Oh they go into an advert break. Damn.

Still waiting...

Back. Vassou smiles at the cameras again since she's finished.
Replay shows double layout again, front tumbling middle pass.
Vassou sharing a joke with her coach as her score comes up as

Sergei Fedorchenko of Kazakstan. WOW what was that! some new
moves from this guy! And a double twisting double layout
dismount! That "move" in the replay shows is a full-twisting
Kovac! also there's another normal Kovac in the routine.

Kui Yuanyuan from China is all smiles even before she starts
on floor. this is going to be great too. very quick worker
she is. double layout again! front tumbling back across the
diagonal... very fast whips into double twists. This final pass
will be her fifth tumbling pass! More front tumbling. Crowd
cheers. 9.850!! Her coach lifts her back onto the podium to
accept the cheers. A sign in Chinese says "We are proud of you".
Gold for the Chinese shared with Gogean.

Fedorchenko's score still hasn't come up! He waits... WHAT?
Only 9.475! something's amiss here......

Krasimir Dounev from Bulgaria. full-twist hops... tkatchev...
Geinger... double twist double layout dismount too from him.
9.775 and silver medal! Jesus Carballo of Spain won the gold
for the high bar!

Kui Yuanyuan is still smiling...

Womens Floor Exercise

=1. Yuanyuan Kui                (CHN)   9.850
=1. Gina Gogean                 (ROM)   9.850
=3. Lyubov Sheremeta            (UKR)   9.800
=3. Lavinia Milosovici          (ROM)   9.800
=5. Gemma Paz                   (ESP)   9.775
=5. Vasiliki Tsavdaridou        (GRE)   9.775
 7. Ludivine Furnon             (FRA)   9.712
 8. Roza Galieva                (RUS)   9.637

Mens High Bar

 1. Jesus Carballo              (ESP)   9.800
 2. Krasimir Dounev             (BUL)   9.775
 3. Vitaly Scherbo              (BLR)   9.762
 4. Aljaz Pegan                 (SLO)   9.750
 5. Chainey Umphrey             (USA)   9.712
 6. Sergei Fedorchenko          (KAZ)   9.475
 7. Zoltan Supola               (HUN)   9.375
 8. Richard Ikeda               (CAN)   8.075

Hopefully I can get the full scores from the other three apparatus
from today soon...



Date:    Sat, 20 Apr 1996 21:12:07 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: WORLDS on ABC Television.

Just a few comments:
I thought the coverage was pretty bad - they showed the same "fluff" from
Sabae (the russian training complexes, Khorkina, etc....), except for the
Scherbo piece.
I don't understand HOW Khorkina won, especially beating Severino, who was
excellent.  I'm curious what the deduction was for that terrible looking
free-hip thing she added on low bar was.  Also, her giants before her
dismount never went through handstand - they kind of piked over the bar,
looking rather weak and sloppy.  Severino was much cleaner, and even the
Chinese girl, who I agree was somewhat robbed.
And now, I read from Sherwin, the Americans struggled through beam again.
 The absence of Miller and Moceanu is sorely missed - they may not be as
innovative or have as much difficulty as those from other countries, but they
are slightly ahead of Dawes and Phelps, who could have own bars if she hadn't
cowboyed her dismount so terribly.  Still, I'm looking forward to beam and
floor finals on tv next week, to see Kochetkova's beam and the Chinese floor.


Date:    Sat, 20 Apr 1996 21:34:11 -0400
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Worlds 96 EF (Part Six)

World Championships 1996

San Juan, Puerto Rico           April, 1996.

Event Finals (Day Two)   (Part Six)

Here are more scores but I'm sorry some of them are still missing
in the womens beam and mens parallel bars, although I don't
think the missing scores would affect the medals positions.

Mens Vault

 1. Alexei Nemov                (RUS)   9.756
=2. Hong Chul Yeo               (KOR)   9.743
=2. Andrea Massucchi            (ITA)   9.743
=4. Sergei Fedorchenko          (KAZ)   9.643
=4. Vitaly Scherbo              (BLR)   9.643
 6. Dieter Rehm                 (SUI)   9.556
 7. Valeri Belenki              (GER)   9.437
 8. Alexei Voropaev             (RUS)   9.431
 9. Zoltan Supola               (HUN)   9.400

Womens Beam

 1. Dina Kochetkova             (RUS)   9.887
 2. Alexandra Marinescu         (ROM)   9.812
=3. Xuan Liu                    (CHN)   9.800
=3. Dominique Dawes             (USA)   9.800
    Vasiliki Tsavdaridou        (GRE)   9.675
    Mercedes Pacheco            (ESP)   9.637
    Jaycie Phelps               (USA)   9.187
    Gina Gogean                 (ROM)   ?????

Mens Parallel Bars

 1. Rustam Charipov             (UKR)   9.750
=2. Alexei Nemov                (RUS)   9.737
=2. Vitaly Scherbo              (BLR)   9.737
    Ivan Ivankov                (BLR)   9.725
    Ivan Ivanov                 (BUL)   9.650
    Valeri Belenki              (GER)   9.587
    Jin Soo Jung                (PRK)   ?????
    Gil Su Pae                  (PRK)   ?????

That is all from Puerto Rico. The European Championships for
men and women will both be held neat month.



Date:    Sun, 21 Apr 1996 00:24:02 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Gogean's second vault

        Well, I agree that Annia Portuondo should have won vault, but
that's not the point of this post exactly....
        For any judges out there, why doesn't the Phelps, or the
Hristakieva get devalued to a Tsuk half/Yurchenko half when the twist
occurs so blatantly just before the landing?  IMHO Gogean should have
received a .3 wrong  vault deduction for her second vault, which hence
would have started at 9.7 - .3 = 9.4.  It's nothing against Gogean
personally, I just think that her second vault was a Tsuk half, not a
Phelps.  For anyone who saw event finals from Commonwealth Games last
year, Sonia Lawrence did a layout Tsuk half for her first vault, and
called it that (ie with the 4 digit vault number) so was judged from
9.7.  That vault to me looks just the same as what Gogean did (although
Lawrence had better form IMHO).  So I ask any judges out there: would you
have taken a wrong vault deduction from Gina?


Date:    Sun, 21 Apr 1996 00:31:09 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Pae Gil Sue and Annia Portuondo's Olympic eligibility

        Since PRK and the Cuban women didn't compete in Sabae, I was
wondering if these two world medallists would be able to qualify for
Atlanta based on their performances this week in PUR.  Does this world
championship have anything to do with Olympic qualifying?  What does Cuba
hardly send a women's team to worlds anyway?  The women could have done
well in Sabae.  Annia has been on the International scene since 1989(!)
when at age 11 she performed a lightning rod straight Yurchenko full at
the China Cup.  Her difficulty on the other events was also world
class, even back then.  It would be great if she could go to Atlanta IMO.


Date:    Sun, 21 Apr 1996 01:46:55 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: mens NCAA get together

Here it comes this week.
Mens NCAA at Stanford, CA.
Anyone going who wants to do dinner or coffee as a gymn-l get together ?

Email me


End of GYMN-L Digest - 20 Apr 1996 to 21 Apr 1996