GYMN-L Digest - 15 Oct 1995 to 16 Oct 1995 - Special issue

There are 17 messages totalling 510 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Miller's bar mistake (2)
  2. MEN's  AWESOME moves at Worlds! (2)
  3. Criticism discussion...AGAIN
  4. The All-Round after ABC Broadcast
  5. Attn. all judges!!
  6. Commentators: Worlds AA
  7. WORLDS: ABC Corrections & Misc. Facts
  8. MEN's AWESOME moves at Worlds!
  9. emotions
 10. cutting down messages
 11. General comments about Gymn
 12. Bandwith on Gymn
 13. Jennie Thompson in Dallas Morning News
 14. Kim Zmeskal (and other stuff)
 15. Jennie Thompson


Date:    Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:05:18 -0500
Subject: Miller's bar mistake

Date sent:  15-OCT-1995 22:04:55

Can someone clarify just how much Shannon's break on bars cost her?


Date:    Sun, 15 Oct 1995 23:22:32 -0400
Subject: MEN's  AWESOME moves at Worlds!

I was watching a tape of the world's this weekend, and of the "lesser" - not
the ones that get on TV - teams, I think from South America area - maybe
someone from that part of the world can help id this person (6 release moves
person) -- this part was in black & white, no sound, and no names --

6 release moves in a row --
Piked takatchev
straddled takatchev
straddled takatchev
full over the bar
full over the bar

There was also a triple Tsuk.- not stuck

I also believe there was a triple front, however, I want to watch that part
of the tape again to confirm what I saw -- the guy rolled out of it, so we
were calling it a quad front.

As I watch more of the tape I will relate more incredible stuff


Date:    Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:28:03 -0600
Subject: Re: Criticism discussion...AGAIN

>First of all,let me say that the Romanians deserved their victory.The
scores given by the judges were *WAY* too high,but they  had the best team
on the floor...according to the code of points,that is.

The Rom surpassed everyone.  I think they need a little help on the floor
with their dance but they did do a great job.  They increased their diff on
vault too.  Their floor was supurb!!!!

>.The only redeeming quality in her gymnastics is her ability to stick her
landings .She has no style or personality unlike Mo Huilan,Svetlanta
Khorkina(and almost all the Russians),Svetlanta Boginskya,and select few
others who absolutely reek of the two things mentioned above.In *MY* eyes
that makes a great gymnast.Have Gogean go head to head with one of those
gymnasts and let someone who knows absolutely nothing about gymnastics
watch.Any idea on who
they'll pick as the superior gymnast?Here's a hint...It won't be Gina.Just
because the code of points says that they're equal gymnasts(in terms of
difficulty requirements), that doesn't mean I have to think the same.

Gymnastics is wonderful.  I think that their should be in the sport one
gymnast at least that draws our attention like S. Bog and S. Khorina.  I
think they are wonderful.  A new artistic style.  I think that is what gym
needs.  It needs personality.  It needs the gymnast to smile at the end of a
routine, good or for the code of points, I think that this is why
China is doing so well.  They are great technique and style and grace, and
now the code of points rewards them for doing such lovely dance.  Also they
can do front t- well too.

Thats my point on the Rom stuff!


Date:    Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:33:37 -0600
Subject: The All-Round after ABC Broadcast

I am so proud of Lillya.  After watching the A-R today I must write
something about that.  I thought that she had great routines and she
deserved to win by a landslide.  Little Mo would have won a medal if her
beam dis would have gone well.  I thought that Milo was great.  I thought
Kerri Strug's bar routine was great, she had great form.  I wish they would
have showed Bogi.

I must say, I have never seen a more moving comp.  I like seeing S. Kh smile
and be so happy.  It was great.  So when is ABC doing the EVENT FINALS??????

I'm curious, I would like to get to know more of the people on this list.
If you would like to write me, please do!  I would love to know your fav
gymnasts and maybe find out if you have been a gymnast or are new to this
sport.  I love writing especially if it is about gym.



Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:43:12 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Attn. all judges!!

Would the judges for woman's competition e-mail me.  I have a few questions I
would like to ask and would prefer not to clutter up the list.  Thanks!


P.S.  It doesn't matter what class judge you are.


Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:35:15 -0700
From:    ***@ACCESSNV.COM
Subject: Re: Commentators: Worlds AA

> P.S. Anyone notice that Mo and the rest of the chinese women had the
> words "Li Ning" written on their leos (over the heart on chest). Is he in
> that buisness now? What ever happened to him?
The answer is YES.  He has stores that sell only his line of clothing.
When I was in Beijing, I bought a warm-up at his store.  I had to get a
XXXL where here it would be an XL.  The Chinese gymnasts are provided all
of there leos.  Our girls have some of them after trading.


Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 03:46:16 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: WORLDS: ABC Corrections & Misc. Facts

I have yet to watch all of the ABC coverage of the AA but there were a few
errors I'd like to correct in what I did see.

1) John Roethlisberger qualified into the AA in 8th position - not 13th like
Bart said.

Also, Kathy alluded to the fact that he was doing his double-double on FX as
a dismount when he put his hands down, but I'm not sure if that's correct. We
had *heard* he was going to be using it to end (he's been talking about it
for some time now), but I thought I remembered commenting on the fact that he
never did here. Perhaps Billy or Beth, will remember and can give a more
accurate answer.

2) Despite what Bart said, Alexei Nemov (RUS) *did* qualify into the AA but
couldn't compete because 3 Russians (Karbonenko, Shabaev, & Voropaev - in
that order) were ahead of him.

Nemov *won* the optional portion (as Bart mentioned) of the team competition
(Li Xiaoshiang was 2nd) but was only *96th* after a horrible compulsory round
that included a 6.525 high bar set and an 8.425 pommel horse.

Misc Notes ...

*Mo Huilan won team optionals (again the eventual winner, Podkopayeva, was
2nd) for the women and without her unfortunate fall on the beam dismount
would have won the AA as well.

*Hulian, Podkopayeva, and Miller were the only athletes to qualify for all 4
women's finals.

*Xiaoshiang was the most prolific men's qualifier making 4 finals (floor,
rings, vault, & p-bars)

*The highest score given during the men's AA was 9.712 for Scherbo's HB (too
high, IMO) and Xiaoshiang's p-bars.

*The highest score given during women's AA was 9.912 for Khorkina's bars. She
received the same score in the team comp.

 - Susan


Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 04:09:51 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: MEN's AWESOME moves at Worlds!

Mayland Crosson <crosson@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU> wrote ...
>... I think from South America area ... (6 release moves person)
> ... Piked takatchev [she means "Tkachev"], straddled takatchev, >straddled
takatchev, full over the bar, full over the bar, Gienger

Well geographically you're just a tad off. That combination would be Kasimir
Dunev of Bulgaria. He's been on the BUL team since '91 but this combo is new.

In my opionon, he was under-scored throughout the meet. He earned a bronze in
the HB EF but his routine was easily the best of the bunch.

 - Susan


Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:52:56 +0200
From:    ***@INFOCOM.KIEV.UA
Subject: Re: emotions

><snip> I would imagine that the
>>US team would be the top team in the world if they lived and trained
>>the way some of the other top teams do (Romania, China, Russia).
>Dunno about that.  Karolyi's girls live(d) and train(ed) together and that
>didn't/doesn't seem to make much of a difference during the competition.
I actually think that it does make a difference, look at the 91
worlds where four of the girls were from Korolyi's (Strug,
Grivitch, Okino, Zmeskal)  Not only were they rejoicing and
positive, but they did win the Silver Medal in team (and yes, I
do realize that some of it had to do with home team advantage).
But since then, they have remained in the top three.  I do like the
originality that having gymnasts from other gyms around the country
brings to the US Team (however).


Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:10:26 -0400
From:    ***@PANIX.COM
Subject: Re: MEN's  AWESOME moves at Worlds!

> Vault
> -------------
> There was also a triple Tsuk.- not stuck

A Korean gymnast (sorry, I don't remember his name) did this at '93
University Games.



Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:28:36 EDT
Subject: cutting down messages

In order to cut down the length of messages, could people NOT reprint the
message they are replying to, unless it is necessary to the post?  If you
must include it, can you omit the long signature?

Just my idea of saving bandwidth and memory.



Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 13:38:30 GMT
From:    ***@M4-ARTS.BHAM.AC.UK
Subject: General comments about Gymn

I have just read the comments that Rachele posted that were replies
to the survey and would like to pick up on one point that was

This discussion forum, being international, has a vast potential for
education, particularly about other countries' teams.  While everyone
knows about the top 5 teams (US, Romania etc.), other good teams like
the French, Greeks, Aussies etc tend not to be discussed.

I know that the vast majority of subscribers are from the US, but I'd
like to encourage subscribers from other countries to post more often
about what's going on with their national teams; spirit of the
"global village" and all that.  What does anyone else think? I know
the top people are the ones to talk about but while I enjoy watching
them (of course!) I'm kinda getting tired of the perpetual
Miller/Gogean/Milo/Pod discussions and would like to hear about other
places and people occasionally too.  I like gym as a sport generally
and not just for the top 10 or so gymnasts in it!

I get the feeling I might get flamed for this, but I'm not trying to
offend anyone, just encouraging others to post as well as the old



Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 07:17:57 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Bandwith on Gymn

To Michelle and all Aussies... I say that posts regarding TV times and
other Aussie specific things are welcome on Gymn.  Keeping this off of
Gymn has two bad effects, in my mind.  One, new Aussie subscribers
might get left out at first.  Two, keeping this off of Gymn, to me,
seems to make Gymn even *more* USA-dominant and less international.
For example, say an Aussie is cruising the WWW and checks out back
issues of Gymn digests.  They'd be more likely to subscribe to Gymn, I
think, by noticing a few posts of Aussie TV times, and so more Aussie
info will eventually lead to more Aussie subscribers.  [Not that posts
of Aussie TV times would be so prolific that a WWW surfer would happen
to notice, but you get the general idea.]

Bex... Great suggestion.  Several people have expressed the thought to
me lately that Gymn has a lot of "global village" (almost
Gymnaestrada-like) type of potential, and I would like for it to
really happen. Hopefully our international subscribership will
continue to grow.

Anne... complete agreement about the long signatures!  I think it's ok
to quote a few lines of what a poster is replying to, but the quotng
of entire messages is just yucky.  ;) I should mention that, regarding
length of .signatures, anything over 4 lines is considered excessive
in every "newcomer" Internet guide I've ever read.  Some of you should
take a look at the digests -- sometimes they are half signatures, and
quoted messages.  It's quite a bit to wade through!  (Sometimes,
certainly not always.)  In the Gymn Guide, we used to request that
people avoid long .sigs (maybe we still do, I forget), but I think we
took it out because it seemingly had no effect.



Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:09:39 -0500
From:    ***@SCS.TAMU.EDU
Subject: Jennie Thompson in Dallas Morning News

Sunday's Dallas Morning News ran a  _one page_  article about the
trials and tribulations on Jennie's gymnastics career..  She is back with Steve
 Nunno and has
recently (the last few weeks) begun working out after having surgury on her
 heel.  She had
to have a screw put in to hold her heel together.  The article was
not very flattering to Jennie, portraying her as a rather sullen, spoiled
brat.  It didn't seem to be just the author's point of view, but her
parents' as well.  They talked about how diffucult she can be at
times, and, in fact, she would not come out of her room to be
interviewed for the article.  They apparantly did talk to her at a
later time, though.  On a more positive note, Steve Nunno said that
she is the most naturally talented gymnast he has ever worked with.
She is expected to begin competing again early in 1996

When Bela returned to coaching, Jennie's dad had a "secret" meeting
with him and Bela said that he would accept her back into his gym as
one of his select few.  The entire family moved (again) to Houston,
and after only five months, Jennie announced that she would never
step foot in Bela's gym again.  She never gave a reason except that
her elbow was killing her, her heel hurt terribly, and she was just
unhappy. The article also talked about a growing rivalry with
Dominique Moceano.   Bela told her that if she stuck with him, she would make
the '96 Olympic team, but if she said if she couldn't return to Steve Nunno,
she would quit qymnastics.  So now, she and her mother are living in
Oklahoma City; Jennie's father and 16 year old brother are living in
Irving, TX (a suburb of Dallas).  Her brother does not think that
what the family has gone through to support Jennie's gymnastics has
been worth it, even if she makes it to the Olympics and does well.
He has really suffered a lot because of Jennie's talent; he is
basically growing up in a one parent household and is resentful.

I know the man who coached Jennie at Karolyi's until she was about 10
years old, he now runs a gym here in College Station, TX, but I've
never heard him talk about her, so I don't know much except what I
have read.  Has anyone else heard similar things about her?  I know
that having an elite gymnast in the family has to cause a lot of
strain, at least financial, and often emotional.



Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:36:31 -0500
From:    ***@SCS.TAMU.EDU
Subject: Kim Zmeskal (and other stuff)

Someone had recently asked about Kim, and if she was still was
training.  I saw her (and Dominique M.) at Karolyi's ranch this
weekend and she is still training.  She didn't appear to me to be
heavy at all, contrary to what I've heard in the media, but she has
been back in the gym for over a year.  Bela and Marta hosted the
Judge's Cup this past weekend.  I know  Bela is very contraversial
in the gymnastics world, but seeing him interact with kids it's hard
for me to believe that he doesn't care about their well-being.  My
daughter, at one time, was coached by a man who used to work for
Karolyi, and has the same coaching style.  It is not appropriate for
every child, but for those who can deal with it, it is very
effective.  I know a lot of it is PR, but he and Marta do get very involved in
functions at the ranch (we've been there a couple times), and seem to
really enjoy it.  Marta usually runs the pro-shop, selling T-shirts
and the like, and Saturday, Bela was directing cars to parking
places.  I know the girls in the meet thoroughly enjoy competing at
the ranch.  They get to see and meet gymnastics "stars", and also get
to meet up and coming gymnasts.  Kim and Dominique were handing out
awards, along with another elite, April ( I forgot her last name) who
apparently would have been at Nationals, but hurt her arm.

I know he has faults, but I'll always be a fan of Bela's.  The sport
wouldn't be the same without him.



Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:18:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Jennie Thompson

Date sent:  16-OCT-1995 10:16:20

I, for one, cannot figure HOW to quote other people's posts. :)
Anyhow, regarding the Dallas article on Jennie Thompson. Boy, talk
about bias in journalism. International Gymnast also published an
article on Jennie in the October issue. That article was upbeat,
positive, and portrayed Jennie in a positive light. Now, I don't
claim to know Jennie personally, nor am I going to make comments on
which article is correct. But, I will say this. What 14-year-old
ISN'T a spoiled brat sometimes, and doesn't throw a temper tantrum?
It happens...


Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:15:26 -0400
From:    ***@EAGLE.LHUP.EDU
Subject: Re: Miller's bar mistake

It's hard to say on the international level what is actually taken but I
would guess.3 for an extra swing and no bonus on the combination involved.


> Date sent:  15-OCT-1995 22:04:55
> Can someone clarify just how much Shannon's break on bars cost her?


End of GYMN-L Digest - 15 Oct 1995 to 16 Oct 1995 - Special issue