GYMN-L Digest - 14 Sep 1995 to 15 Sep 1995

There are 18 messages totalling 651 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Pre-Olympics (2)
  2. USA World Trials: Commentary on Women's Optionals (2)
  3. Betty Okino
  4. help?
  5. World Championships Trials Women (2)
  6. Jaycie Phelps (2)
  7. Gymnastic Technique!!!!
  8. Alternates
  9. Speaking of "Kimbo" (2)
 10. Backhauls
 11. Nike Commercials/Gymnasts Series
 12. Moceanu's floor
 13. Trivia Answers #32: National Championships


Date:    Thu, 14 Sep 1995 22:50:35 -0600
Subject: Pre-Olympics

YEAH!! It pays to have good friends!

Well, I was on the phone tonight with a friend and he has BOX seats in the
Georgia Dome and said I can come and see the Pre-Olympics and possibly the

Anyway, I have yet to hear ANYTHING from USGF about the tickets. I contacted
them via email and they said "they'll get back to me". As if.



Date:    Thu, 14 Sep 1995 22:40:41 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Pre-Olympics

| Subject:      Pre-Olympics
| Anyway, I have yet to hear ANYTHING from USGF about the tickets. I contacted
| them via email and they said "they'll get back to me". As if.

Well, since the USGF is not hosting the meet, you are probably barking
up the wrong tree. ;) The meet is being hosted by ACOG.



Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 06:15:34 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: USA World Trials: Commentary on Women's Optionals

1995 World Team Trials
Frank Erwin Center, UT campus
Austin, TX
9 September 1995
Attendance: 5209

Women's Optionals

For Katie Teft (Great Lakes), the competition was over before it
started.  Teft's first event was to be vault, but she suffered a scary
injury in the warmups.  According to those who saw it (and I was not
one of them), she landed right on her neck.  Some say she was doing a
timer but others say that can't be, since she didn't have a crash mat.
At any rate, the vault warmups were halted for 20 minutes while she
was immobilized on the mat and then wheeled out on a stretcher to a
standing ovation.  The word came back before the end of the meet that
her xrays were fine and all she had suffered was a slightly sprained
ankle (yes, ankle).  I saw her walking around the hotel the next day
and she seemed quite all right.

Rotation 1

The highlight of the first rotation, in my opinion, was Theresa
Kulikowski's (CO Aerials) bars set.  Her Jaeger-1/2 is unreal.
(9.787) The half turn is inserted right before she catches the bar.
Mary Beth Arnold (Flips) also threw a unique bars release, a Markelov,
which is a Tkatchev with 1/2 twist from front giants.  (9.75) Her
double layout dismount was beautiful.  Doni Thompson's bars are always
a treat (double layout dismount with a step). (9.737) Monica Flammer
(Cypress) unfortunately peeled right after catching her Jaeger.
(8.90) Strug, however, swung a clean piked Jaeger; a giant-blind, full
pirrouette; a Tkatchev; and a full-out dismount (step).  (9.775) The
dismount of the night, of course, belonged to Mohini Bhardwaj
(Brown's), master of the full-twisting double layout.  (9.70) A close
second was Dree Pickens' (Cypress) toe-on front with 1.5 twist out.
(9.625) Dominique Moceanu hit her flat-footed bar set with a nailed
double layout dismount.  (9.687)

One of the best vaults of the competition was thrown in this rotation
by Alecia Ingram (Dynamo).  Her Yurchenko-1/2 is definitely laid out,
and the way she twists is very pretty.  Her score was only a 9.612,
sadly enough.  Chow's second vault seemed like it might have been
unplanned: she competed a handspring 1/2-out *tucked*, whereas she
usually does it piked.  (9.837) Dawes did her usual duo of
Yurcenko-1.5 and piked handspring front (step). (9.775) Miller's first
vault incurred a small step forward on the first (Yurchenko entry
Hristakieva) and a good deal of pike on the second (Tsuk entry
Hristakieva). (9.812)

Rotation 2

Miller cleaned up on bars with a 9.837, but Dawes scored surprisingly
high (9.775) for a routine with several problems: she almost stalled
while going to a handstand, she ticked the low bar with her foot on a
giant, and she took a hop on her full-out.  Teammate Tomasek missed on
a Gienger and then other skills to score an 8.162.  Chow debuted a new
trick on bars by swinging an Endo-full pirrouette dropped right into
another Endo.  This was followed by a Stalder directly into a
Shaposhnikova to the high bar.  Her releases included her piked Jaeger
and layout Pak salto, and she concluded with a double double dismount.

Vault saw a range of difficulty, from Doni Thompson's handspring front
with a hop (sore back -- 9.462) to Moceanu's 1.5 twisting Yurchenko's
(9.962).  Strug (and Doni T) did not take a second vault -- Strug
presumably because she felt that she was unable to perform her
Yurchenko-1/2 any better (9.85 score), Thompson because of the back.
Kulikowski fell on her second handspring front pike but got a 9.537 on
the first one.  Flammer equalled Alecia Ingram's strong Hristakieva
vault, showing tight laid-out form, height, and an early twist for a
9.762.  Teammate Pickens did a simple vault first (I think a
handspring front tuck?) and then a clean 1.5 twisting Yurchenko to
score a 9.85 and then get a tenth of bonus added for two different
vaults, to rack up a 9.95.  (She was not the only gymnast to take
advantage of these special USA Gymnastics vaulting rules.)

Rotation 3

Doni Thompson quite evidently favored her back in this rotation,
dismounting beam with a ff, ff, double twist.  After her near-fall on
her double turn, this dropped her score to 9.15.  Kulikowski incurred
a wobble on her ff, full twist (but she stayed on) and she was fairly
tentative on a sheep jump.  After a step on her double tuck, she
scored 9.612.  Arnold lost her footing on her beam mount (a layout on
-- her second foot never touched the beam) and was unsteady and
conservative throughout the rest of the routine for a 8.700.  I liked
Strug's beam pass of a ff, layout, ff, layout for a 9.725.  Her
stiff-legged landing off beam, however, was jolted.  Barely topping
that score was Moceanu, who was not nearly as "on" for her optional
beam set as she was for compulsories.  I recorded: a check on her ff
to three layouts, a check on her sheep jump, a small wobble on her
full turn, and a hop on her double tuck dismount (9.737).  I was
happifly surprised at how well Bhardwaj hit beam, including a side
somi skill, for a 9.537.

The competition began on floor with a "gasp" -- Dominique Dawes sat
down on her last pass, a 2.5 twist.  I guess there was just no steam
left. (9.25) This routine was followed by another attention-getter, as
Amy Chow opened with her awesome Arabian double front - 1/2 out.
(9.425) Reagan Tomasek fell on her last pass (9.012).

Miller has the most amazing ability to land underrotated/low tumbling.
This time, I was sure that she'd take several steps, if not fall, on
her tucked full-in dismount.  Oh but no, she of course landed it well.
I've seen her pull off this type of save before, and it always amazes
me.  I do think that Miller is underrated on her tumbling.  No one
ever seems to mention it in particular.  Certainly she is not a "power
tumbler" with an Energizer-bunny type reputation, but to open and
close with a full-in and to sandwich two passes in between, one of
which is a running front double twist -- that's hard!  (Although, she
hasn't been using her harder tumbling for quite awhile, admittedly).
Did someone say she was old?  Hunh??  She scored a 9.9.

Rotation 4

Miller lead Moceanu for the first time at Trials at this point, by the
smallest margin possible -- .001.  Both of them rose to the occasion.

Miller mounted beam with her old press to reverse planche.  She
included a back dive with 1/4 turn and two consecutive back extension
rolls right off the bat.  She then landed her crowd- (and judge-)
pleasing layout gainer to one foot, in an arabesque position.
However, she then checked on her ff, layout, layout, leaving out the
third layout.  I believe that were it not for this obvious error, she
would have scored a 9.95 or higher and won the Trials.  Who knows, as
it's rather pointless to play "what-if" games.  At any rate, the rest
of the routine went well, including a very well done back dive with
1/4 turn to immediate 1/2 turn (hop?), and also a stuck full-in

Moceanu then pulled out the best floor routine that I've seen her
compete.  I say "compete" because I know she is capable of much harder
tumbling skills. She did the same tumbling from Nationals (what is
going on with that vertical jump at the end of her handspring, front
full, front layout pass?) with clean execution and landings for a

For highlights of other routines: Thompson made it through floor,
opening and closing with 2.5 twists.  I really like the choreography
of the CO Aerials -- they manage to be classy yet fun at the same
time.  Strug competed a double layout mount and full-in dismount for
9.887, and Kulikowski managed a 9.537 after stepping out of bounds on
her full-in mount.

Over on beam, Dawes surprised everyone by not going into her 2nd and
3rd layouts on her ff-3 layouts pass.  However, her routine still
began from a 10.0 and she scored a 9.812.  Ingram and Tomasek both
suffered wobbles for mid 9 scores while Amy "trickster" Chow competed
full twist (piked?) with a step and also a Rulfova for a 9.662.


The main question at the conclusion of the women's World Trials was,
oddly enough: "who will be on the Worlds team?"  Going down the list
we have Moceanu -- who knows if Karolyi has a trick up his sleeve;
Miller -- ditto about Nunno; Phelps -- sore knee; Strug -- no
questions about her that I know of; Dawes -- bad wrist; Chow -- no
questions; Doni Thompson -- sore back.  Those are the top seven girls.
The impression I got was that there weren't going to be any funny
tricks or "protecting" of their gymnasts from Nunno or Karolyi, so I
expect Moceanu and Miller to be in Japan.  But with Jaycie Phelps,
Dominique Dawes, and Doni Thompson-- I'm not sure about any of them
because of their injuries.  I don't know how serious the injuries are,
how long they've been struggling with the injuries, etc.

Scores are raw compulsories, raw optionals, and then weighted total
with Nationals factored in.  Second line indicates optional Trials
scores for vault, bars, beam, and floor.

1. Moceanu 39.349, 39.336, 78.615
        9.962  9.687  9.737  9.950

2. Miller 39.312, 39.461, 78.742
        9.812  9.837  9.912  9.900

3. Phelps 0, 0, 77.730
        0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000

4. Strug 38.712, 39.237, 77.843
        9.850  9.775  9.725  9.887

5. Dawes 38.762, 38.762, 77.522
        9.925  9.775  9.812  9.250

6. Chow 38.424, 38.748, 76.630
        9.837  9.837  9.662  9.412

7. Thompson 38.062, 37.986, 75.968
        9.462  9.737  9.150  9.637

8. Kulikowski 38.262, 38.473, 75.917
        9.537  9.787  9.612  9.537

9. Arnold 37.962, 37.599, 75.704
        9.787  9.750  8.700  9.362

10. Pickens 37.386, 38.512, 75.401
        9.950  9.625  9.437  9.500

11. Ingram 37.624, 37.711, 74.882
        9.612  9.212  9.500  9.387

12. Flammer 37.261, 37.674, 74.854
        9.762  8.900  9.675  9.337

13. Bhardwaj 36.711, 38.462, 74.599
        9.775  9.700  9.587  9.400

14. Tomasek 37.499, 36.174, 74.033
        9.600  8.162  9.400  9.012

15. Teft 37.349, 0.000, 53.923
        0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000

16. Brink 0.000, 0.000, 22.527
        0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000

# # #


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 16:03:43 +0200
From:    ***@CTI.ECP.FR
Subject: Re: Betty Okino

Betty's Dad comes from Uganda and he used to fight against Amin Dada...Betty was
 born in Uganda too.


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:05:40 -0400
Subject: help?

I've been lurking around this list for a while and have just gotten the
nerve to try and post. I'm kinda just starting out in gymn, I'm 21 years
old and trying my darnest to get some moves going. I was wondering if
there are any suggestions/progressions/drills/conditioning that anyone
might have for getting giants on high bar, doubles on pommels,
backhandsprings, back tucks (both standing and out of roundoff/
roundoff-backhandspring)? I seem to have the redundant problem of taking
off on balance for my backhandspring, but can't seem to get the feel for
falling back or "sitting". Sheesh, my grammar really sucks =). Thanks in
advance for any help.


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 12:13:07 -0400
Subject: Re: USA World Trials: Commentary on Women's Optionals

>   Some say she was doing a
> timer but others say that can't be, since she didn't have a crash mat.
                What is a timer?

> tumbling skills. She did the same tumbling from Nationals (what is
> going on with that vertical jump at the end of her handspring, front
> full, front layout pass?)

        Isn't it a deduction??

Laura :)


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:31:13 -0500
Subject: World Championships Trials Women

Date sent:  15-SEP-1995 11:28:43

1) What is a timer? I believe it is when a gymnast does the entire
entire to the vault, but instead of doing the sommersault of
the horse does a high handspring to get the punch and timing.

2) Obviosuly not. Moceanu has been doing that move all year. I doubt
Bela would let here do it if it were an obvious dedecution.

And I have a question of my own. When will the status of the athletes
be determined for Sabae? From the sound of it, there are at least two
athletes who may be questionable. And, how many alternates are staying
"up" in condition and ready?


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 12:39:30 -0400
From:    ***@TSO.CIN.IX.NET
Subject: Jaycie Phelps

Local reports from the Cincinnati Enquirer state that Jaycie had
surgery on Wed. to repair a small tear of the meniscus in her knee.  Everytying
went well and she has already started some therapy and strengthening.
She sould be allowed back in the gym in 7-10 days.
In the meantime, she is watching lots of tapes of herself, and other
gymnasts as well.

The article also made it soud like she was writen in stone for Sabae.



Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 13:17:53 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Gymnastic Technique!!!!

I'm hoping to find some interested parties -- people who are interested in
talking about technique!

What I'd really like to know, is how to start a new gymnastic digest.  A
place where we can talk about technique and you know ocassional chater in
regards to kids, how to deal with them, parents and so forth.

But mostly, I wan't to talk technique!

If you are interested E-Mail me pleassssse.  My address is:  ***@AOL.COM

If you know how to start a digest, or a gymnastic forum, (whatever you call
this thing that everyone talks about everything in regards to gymnastics)
please let me know and lets set one up.

What's your secret to teaching young kids a kip??????

Come on guys, lets take advantage of this internet!

Sincerely, Karflip


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 12:23:45 -0500
Subject: Jaycie Phelps

Date sent:  15-SEP-1995 12:23:00

I assume when you said set in stone that meant she will be competing.
But what the heck is a torn meniscus (sp) and how serious is it?
Apparently not too much so, since rehab will be so short.


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 13:39:36 -0500
Subject: Alternates

Date sent:  15-SEP-1995 13:38:47

Someone just mailed a response to one of my questions. They told me that
three alternates are currently up and working. So, that would be
Kullikowski, Arnold and...Pickens?


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 15:40:24 -0400
From:    ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: Speaking of "Kimbo"

> Just thought I would let people know that Kim Zemeskel was at the World
> Trials.  She was sitting in the stands, came down to where I was sitting to
> say hello to some people on the floor -- she along with myself and Victor
> Randasso were reprimmanded by the security for trying to get autographs.
> Yes, we were a little surprised.  Any rate, she looks very healthy, I didn't
> have a chance to ask her how her training is going, since we needed to
> defended ourselves from the security guards.  She was also sporting a VERY
> NICE pair of diamond earrings.
> Mayland

        Just a question. Does anyone think that Kim can make it to the Olympics?
Granted, she has (had?) enormous talent, and was one of the best female
gymnasts since Mary Lou.  But, she wasn't ready for 1995 Us Nationals,
and even though she went to World Trials she didn't compete (obviously).
I am concerned that she is waiting until 1996 Nationals when she HAS to
make the team.  I think that no matter how talented you are, you have to
get back into the feel of competing against other athletes in an
international competition.  She has been out of the competitive arena for
quite a while, and I am afraid that she will "flub" or get nervous and
commit small errors.  I think she needed to compete in the 1995 Nationals
because that would be a great place to start.  Then, when she competes in
the 1996 Nationals next year, she would have a better understanding of
the skills that the other athletes are executing and what she needs to do
to win or at least be a challenge.
        Just a thought.
I would like some feedback on this subject. What do y'all think?


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 16:34:35 -0500
Subject: Re: World Championships Trials Women

>1) What is a timer? I believe it is when a gymnast does the entire
>entire to the vault, but instead of doing the sommersault of
>the horse does a high handspring to get the punch and timing.

That's basically the idea, but many gymnasts do vault timers to their
backs.  For instance, if you wanted to do a timer for a tucked Tsukahara,
you could pile up crash pads to the level of the horse.  Then, you could do
a half-on, block hard, tuck up your legs and land on your back.

I'm assuming that Katie Teft's vault looked roughly like that, only with a
Yurchenko entry.  *Shiver*  I'm glad she's okay.

As for Moceanu's extra hop, she has so much spring after her fhs, front
full, fron layout pass that I always expect to see another somi there.
Wouldn't it be cool if she ended that pass with another front full?

Ilene, who spent a lot of time doing Tsuk timers


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 17:12:17 -0400
Subject: Backhauls

Does anyone keep track of or search out gymnastics satellite backhauls?


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 18:02:35 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Nike Commercials/Gymnasts Series

The Nike commercial is really good. The fact that it's true is really
startling. It's nice to see Nike doing something nice like that. Hpoefully
people will not think I'm crazy to do gymnastics every day now!!

The Gymnasts series was originaly based on my first gym, the McBurney Y in
NYC. YUou can see the dedication in the first book of the series. I really
think they should be more accurate. Heidi is so obviously modeled on Mary Lou
it's pathetic. However, they sell gymnastics, which is always good.

Just my $0.02



Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 18:24:20 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Moceanu's floor

I remember reading in IG that at the Visa Challenge Dominique Moceanu was so
excited to hit her second toumbling run that she jumped for joy at the end.
 The audience seemed to think it was really cute, so maybe Bela decided to
have her do it everytime.
Also, I think the comparison between Moceanu and Kristy Phillips is very
interesting.  I personally don't think Moceanu will last past puberty, and I
think what happened to Kristy could very well happen to Dominique.
Liz : - )


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 20:03:55 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Trivia Answers #32: National Championships

Sorry to take so long to get these out.  Hope you enjoyed the quiz!

#1-5 Michelle
#6 Dawn
#7 Sherwin
#8-10 Amanda

1.  In 1993 she was Australian National champion, even though she didn't come
first at Australian Champs.  Who was she?

Rebecca Jackson

2.  Which womens artistic gymnast did win 1993 Australian Championships?

Yang Rui (China)

3.  In 1990 this womens artistic gymanst won the Australian title, and scored
the first (and only) 10 on Aussie soil for her FX.  Who was she?  (Hint -
she's not an Aussie!)

Christina Bontas (the Romanians were invited to compete in 90
Australian Nationals)

4.  This Aussie womens artistic gymnast finally won the senior National
title, 4 years after winning the junior national title.  Who is she & what
years did she win each?

Joanna Hughes (1990 & 1994)

5.  Which former Russian won the Australian mens title in 1995?

A.  Andrei Kratsov

6.  At the 1995 US Nationals:  Who were the winners in all-around, how old
are they and who do they train with?

John Roethlisberger, 25, Fred Roethlisberger & Dominique Moceanu, 13, Bela

7.  Over the past three years, three women, from three different countries,
each 'swept' all five Gold Medals in her countries National Championship (non
in the same year).  Who are the three?  What year did each one sweep?

1993-Jackie Brady (GBR)
1994-Dominique Dawes (USA)
1995-Yvonne Pioch (GER)

8.   She became Russia's first ever national champion in 1993.

Svetlana Khorkina (Russia)

9.   She won the overall national title the same year she won three World
titles, but three years later could only manage a position as alternate on
her nation's Olympic team.  (Bonus:  Whose goal had it been to be that year's
national champ?)

Oksana Omeliantchik, USSR

Bonus:  Yelena Shushunova ('85 co-world champ, 88 Olympic Champ)

10.   She earned a 10.6 on floor and a 10.2 on balance beam en route to her
national title.  The second place gymnast performed a full-twisting double
back off balance beam and on floor.  Name the country, year, and respective

USSR, 1977 (!), and Maria Filatova & Yelena Mukhina.


Date:    Fri, 15 Sep 1995 20:46:59 -0400
From:    ***@STYX.IOS.COM
Subject: Re: Speaking of "Kimbo"

        I too had hoped that Kim would compete at nationals this year. I
think it would have helped alot to compete at both nationals and trials,
and maybe even worlds. That way she could have built up her name
internationaly. I wish I could say that she would make the Olympic Team,
but I have to she her compete at least once to see what kind of shape she
is in and what type of difficulty level she now has.Does anyone know what
her first meet back will be? Any guesses?  Maybe a low pressure meet like
Reese's Pro meet.  If she waits until 96 Nationals any chance she had at
making the team would surely be lowered.



End of GYMN-L Digest - 14 Sep 1995 to 15 Sep 1995