GYMN-L Digest - 12 Oct 1995 to 13 Oct 1995 - Special issue

There are 8 messages totalling 558 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Zelepukina & Alternates (2)
  2. some comments on Worlds
  3. Floor music in background.
  4. Adrienne seeking support
  5. ABC coverage (2)
  6. Worlds Report #1


Date:    Thu, 12 Oct 1995 23:20:48 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Zelepukina & Alternates

I realize that this is going back a while but I just got home from Japan
yesterday (I think it was yesterday - It's all a big jet lag blur) and have
 just begun to sort through my massive amounts of "Gymn" e-mail.

Rachele said that the AP reported that Svetlana Zelepukina "broke" her left
elbow in training but in reality she only dislocated it. She did on her
second pass on FX  (whip to 2 1/2 continuing on to Rudi punch - not sure
which move was the killer but I've seen her miss that pass a lot).

She will recover fully and be back in the gym in no time.

If you've never seen her before you're missing out. She's got tons of
difficulty and decent polish. A real asset for a strong - despite their
misleading finish in Japan -  UKR team.

Rachele also said that since the competition had already began (the injury
occured after compos and before optionals) Ukraine would not be able to use
their alternate. While that info was technically correct - alternates are
*not* allowed to be subbed in after comp. begins -  but it was a mute point
since Ukraine didn't have an alternate to begin with.

With the 7-6-5 rule elminating official alternates many countries take an 8th
althlete anyway, just in case, and accredit them as a "coach." Bascially they
are just like the alternates we used to have in the 6 member team system and
if someone gets hurt in training you can sub them in before the meet begins.
The alternate can work out in the training halls with the team but, unless
things have changed since Dortmund, can *not* podium train with the other 7
athletes (in the old days non-competing alternates could).

Now oddly enough in Dortmund, Ukraine was the only team I know of that did
this (the US threw quite a fit because they didn't know it was allowed),
taking Alexandr Svetlichnyi (he was on the team this year) as their 8th guy.

In Sabae alternates were fairly common. The US had Andree Pickens and Brian
Yee, Russia had Yuri Gotov and Svetlana Liapina (though I never saw them
until the banquet), etc.

But cash poor Ukraine had one of the smallest delegations of all with no
money for traveling alternates.  Only two athletes (Rustam Sharipov and Anna
Mirogordskaya) even had personal coaches at the meet Anna's is her father,
Anatoly, and he's also an assistant for the women's team so it's not like he
came just to coach her.  The total number of UKR coaches accredited was only
5 (compare that to the 14+ for the USA).

 - Susan


Date:    Fri, 13 Oct 1995 13:41:41 +1000
From:    ***@COUGAR.VUT.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Zelepukina & Alternates

On the bottom of Susan's mail about the UKR team, there is an
email address on the bottom at which to reply to.  Whose email address is
this exactly, is it who it seems to be ?


Date:    Thu, 12 Oct 1995 23:48:13 -0400
Subject: some comments on Worlds

     I got back from Sabae EARLY this morning, so am still very jet-lagged and
a little incoherent, but thought I'd post a few thoughts. I haven't seen the TV
coverage or read the gymn posts, so sorry if anything is repetitive.
     Men's team. There were strange goings-on in compulsories. With China and
Japan going up early, the scores were high the first two days. For ALL teams
who happened to compete then. The teams that drew the last day suffered,
because the scores suddenly went WAY down for no apparent reason. Germany and
Ukraine suffered the most, receiving much lower scores for routines that were
just as good or better than routines from the first 2 days. This partly
explains some of the strange qualification results for EF. Russia completely
self-destructed. The US men HIT.
     Russia was awesome in optionals, pulling up from 11th to 4th! Aleksei
Nemov also moved from 96th to 1st, but still didn't make AA. (Shabayev,
Voropayev and Karbonenko were ahead of him in terms of comp/optionals score,
but Nemov was best in team optionals.) IMHO, Japan benefitted a bit from
home-court advantage and Romania from being in a good compulsory round. I
thought Russia and Ukraine were both better than Romania. Ukraine was under a
lot of pressure, practically adding an injury or losing a gymnast on each
successive event! Korobchinsky's injury on floor was heartbreaking. He ruptured
his Achilles on take-off, and hurt his other foot on landing. Misyutin had to
wait a while before performing on floor. He was also nursing an injury (left
ankle) and had told me earlier he was going to water down his routine (leave
out the twist on his opening double layout), but he threw all his difficulty
and hit. With Korobchinsky out, the remaining gymnasts had to do all events,
and Oleg Kosyak had to anchor on pommels, an event he HATES. He told me later
he was scared to death, but he did great, and was probably the only happy
Ukrainian at the end of the evening. Yermakov hurt himself on vault (ankle),
as did Sharipov (thigh muscle). It was just not a good meet for the Ukes. As
for Korobchinsky, he had surgery in Sabae and was back at his hotel a few days
later. I didn't get to talk to him, but Svetlichny and Kosyak told me that he
is determined to come back for Atlanta. His attitude seems really good, and I
hope he can make it. :)
     Men's AA. With the field rather depleted (no Nemov, Misyutin or
Korobchinsky), it just didn't seem like a "real" AA competition to me. Even Li
Xioashuang said at the press conference that he considered Nemov his greatest
rival and would have liked to have competed against him in Sabae. Of the 3
medalists, I thought Shabayev was really the best, but this is just my opinion.
I also think Voropayev should have been 3rd and Shcherbo 4th. Vitaly got some
generous scores, simply because he's Shcherbo, and Li seemed to benefit from
the fact that the championships were being held in Asia. But anyway, with Nemov
out, I had a hard time taking the competition seriously.
     About the press conference and Li's remarks about Shcherbo's rings,
there's a good chance something got distorted in the translation. I don't know
Chinese, but whenever anything was said in Russian, the English translation was
WAY off most of the time, so it wouldn't surprise me if that happened with the
Chinese too. I have no way of knowing for sure, but my guess is that Li said
Scherbo's rings were weak at THIS competition, not in general. But at the same
time, he didn't strike me as particularly modest either. Shcherbo did all his
press conferences in English, and although clearly offended by Li's comments,
handled himself very diplomatically. He explained that he had a shoulder injury
and had received shots for the pain and said that although he did not wish this
upon Li, he'd like to see him do rings under similar circumstances. I'm pretty
sure Vitaly was angry, but he didn't come across that way. He seemed most upset
by some reporter who made a comment about his drinking beer and needing to lose
weight. His response: "I'll lose weight only if my wife tells me I need to."
     Women's team. I would have liked to have seen China get the gold. Their
gymnastics is far more expressive and interesting than the Romanians'. But it
was clear from day 1 that Romania was going to get the gold and the battle
would be for the silver and bronze. Ukraine lost its chances before optionals
even began, when Svetlana Zelepukina dislocated her elbow during training.
She'll be out for a few months. Russia was just too wobbly, and Khorkina
definitely looked tired. Much as I love her, I have to say she got some
generous scores, particularly on compulsory beam (about a point too high!). I
was very impressed with the US team. I had wondered if they'd be able to medal
without Dawes, Borden and Chow, but the team newcomers really came through! :)
The crowd really took to Moceanu. I am still most impressed by Jaycie Phelps.
     Off the topic a little, but with all the talk in the US about how gymnasts
are too thin and don't eat enough, I couldn't help wondering what Joan Ryan
would have to say about a comment made by Dmitry Karbonenko. He was sitting in
front of me during the women's team competition and asked me if the girls on
the US team had eating problems. I wasn't sure what he meant exactly, but then
he asked if they ate too much junk food. In his opinion, they were all too fat!
Well, maybe compared to the Russians and Ukrainians, who are scary thin, but
they looked fine to me.
     Women's AA. Mo Huilan was far and away the best gymnast there, but the
fall on her beam dismount took her out of it right away. It was a shame. But I
was happy to see Lilia Podkopayeva finally put it all together when it really
counted. Gogean would have had a great shot at the gold, but literally crumbled
on bars, leaving the door wide open. Neither Khorkina nor Milosevici was at her
best, but I'd say the placings were still fair.
     EF. In my opinion, the results were the most skewed here. A lot of it went
back to the strange scoring in compulsories, which kept quite a few potential
medalists out of the finals altogether. A floor-ex final with no Russian girls?
Bars without Mirgorodskaya? (I think if she had a "name," she'd have been way
up there.) The only gold medals that seemed logical to me were Nemov and
Misyutin on vault, Chechi on rings and Mo on beam. And perhaps Khorkina on bars
too (but Mo should have taken the silver outright).
     All in all, it was the strangest Worlds I've ever attended (with the
possible exception of Paris 1992). Too many people were missing, and there were
too many falls and injuries that kept many gymnasts out of the medals. The
results fell one way, but based on what I saw, I'd say the top teams and
all-arounders are: Chinese men, Chinese women, Mo Huilan and Aleksei
Nemov/Yevgeny Shabayev. Both Russian teams have loads of talent, but they HAVE
to hit... Just my opinion.



Date:    Thu, 12 Oct 1995 23:05:37 -0500
Subject: Floor music in background.

Date sent:  12-OCT-1995 23:03:11

Umm..I'm rewatching my tapes of worlds team finals, and I got reminded
to ask this question. While Moceanu is starting beam, you can hear floor
music in the background. it is the same music Kalinina used in the 1989
USA/USSR dual meet, and the Susan Semanick/Scott Gregory (US ice
dancers) used in 1988. Could someone possibly tell me who was on floor
(I suspect you Sabae attenders might know, and I suspect it is Yelena
Grosheva) and possibly tell me what the music is? I love it...


Date:    Fri, 13 Oct 1995 01:35:01 EDT
Subject: Adrienne seeking support

Hello everybody
I am back.  Well I am the girl who just recently wrote in saying I was new
to responding.  And how I was upset with my teacher on how he watch the 60
minutes episode on gymnastic.  Well I talk to him and now is my chance to
prove him wrong.  He is going to let his class watch the 60 minutes and
then show my side of the story.  I have to convince him that there is two
sides to the story and gymnastics is a GREAT sport.  I have some videos I
can use.  But I really want him to have an open view and opinion of the
sport.  I am supposed to have this information by Monday October 16.
Luckily I have all weekend to work on this.  Plus I have a three day
weekend.  I have SAT's on Saturday.  But I have no school tommorrow so I
would like to start as soon as possible.  Whenever I have the opportunity
to do something like this.  I don't just want to do it I want to do it the
best I can.  So I could use some advise on how I can defend myself and
gymnastics.  So if anyone has any ideas please e-mail me and give me your
ideas as soon as possible.  Thanks.



Date:    Fri, 13 Oct 1995 04:34:19 -0400
Subject: ABC coverage

     Well, I'm obviously still on Japanese time since I'm wide awake at 3:45
a.m. I just watched ABC's coverage of team finals and thought it was unusually
good. It only served to strengthen my opinion that the Chinese women deserved
to win, and that the Japanese men and Romanian men were overscored. IMO they
got on the podium due to the ridiculously high scores they received in
compulsories. Ukraine and Russia performed better on the whole, even with all
of the Ukrainian injuries and Russian falls in compulsories. I think a more
accurate reflection of the men's team competition would have been (1) China
(2) Ukraine and (3) Russia. And if Russia hadn't totally blown compulsories,
they certainly would have been first or second, with Ukraine third.
     To answer Jennifer's question, the floor music during Moceanu's routine is
indeed Grosheva's, and her exercise was just beautiful. I hope someone
somewhere got it on video. I still think Natalia Frolova's 1986 routine to that
music had the best choreography, but Grosheva comes close.
     The Japanese had a lot of problems not only with translation but also with
transliteration. The Russian girl who does the Arabian double front punch front
is not named Proudunova (or whatever they said it was) but Prygunova. I have no
idea how they could have gotten the spelling SO off, but they did. I was
talking to Boris Pilkin one day and said "Proudunova" to him and he didn't have
the slightest idea who I was talking about. He looked rather mystified and said
"Grudneva? She was on the Barcelona team." So I had him name off all the
Russian girls on the Sabae team and later double-checked this name with some
ex-Soviet athletes. They all said Prygunova (stress on the "o"), and Sharipov
pointed out that, appropriately enough, "prygun" means "jumper" or "hopper." :)
     Someone mentioned the Greek team in a post. Well, they were just
fantastic, and I am SO happy they qualified for Atlanta. Their form is great
and their routines are original. Ditto for France, which has the coolest floor
routines of anyone.
     A note on Chusovitina. She actually did NOT qualify for vault finals
(well, performance-wise she did, but score-wise she didn't). When Kerri Strug
pulled out during warmups, officials had to find Oksana in the stands. She was
actually still IN the stands when her name was flashed on the scoreboard! So
the poor girl had to throw on a leotard, take two warmup vaults and then
perform first in the second group of girls. She did GREAT, and I think she
deserved a medal. But when has there ever been a vault final in which
Chusovitina wasn't robbed? She looked better than ever in Sabae, and has a
great new floor routine to "Phantom of the Opera." But with no one to set her
up, she didn't get the scores she deserved...
     Mo Huilan gets the happiest gymnast award. She was all smiles at the EF
press conference, even laughing at some of her own answers. She's got a great
attitude. I actually saw Gogean smile at the press conference (before it
started), and she disproved my theory that she has bad teeth and that's why she
never smiles. So who knows why she always looks so sullen...
     About the Belarusian girls team. There wasn't a whole lot of comraderie
between Boginskaya and the others. I saw their bus one day, and Bogy was in the
front seat, while the rest of the girls were all in the back. At Nelli Kim's
decision, Bogy was put up last on everything, which hurt Piskun's chances.
Speaking of Nelli Kim, for some strange reason she didn't know that Belarus had
changed its national flag a few months ago (it's now red and green with a white
strip on the side with red embroidery) and actually complained to the
competition organizers for not having the flag hung up in the arena along with
all the other countries' flags. Needless to say, the flag WAS there! So Nelli
really seems to be on top of things.
     It seems that after team and AA, some of the ex-Soviet girls got bored and
did each other's hair. Mirgorodskaya and Shapornaya turned up at the banquet
with fresh perms, and Tarasevich and Piskun cut off their ponytails. Tarasevich
looks really cute with short hair, but Piskun, well... I hope she grows it long
again for Atlanta.
     All for now. :)



Date:    Fri, 13 Oct 1995 13:06:55 +0200
From:    ***@INFOCOM.KIEV.UA
Subject: Re: ABC coverage

Just an Idea, perhaps there is not as much camradarie between Bog and
the other team girls, for 2 good reasons. They are more than several
years younger than her, and I doubt some of the things they do, or
talk about are of much interest to her, and for them as well (about
her interests).
Secondly, She trains in the U.S. and that means that she has not been
training with them, or even competeing with them in the meets at
home.  So, perhaps they are more comfortable with each other for
those reasons, which does not mean there is necessarily any
As for the Belarusian Flag, if you knew how many times the laws change
out here in the former Soviet Republics, it would not be so difficult
to imagine that she(Neli Kim) would not even know what her own Nation's
Flag is that month. BTW, as of last year, Belarus did not have a
national anthem, does it now?  Not only do such things change regularly,
but it is also poorly publicized (in general). It may be possible that
the flag had been changed back to the other one for the week, or
just a week before and the organizers at the World's didn't know.
Trust me, Stranger things happen out here.

BTW, I am in the capital city (Kiev, and it is great!!)
of Ukraine, and not one person knows who Podkopaeva is. You would
think that they would show her, and her recent success and past


Date:    Fri, 13 Oct 1995 06:04:37 -0400
Subject: Worlds Report #1

Here is the report for Women's Optional team-ROMANIA,CHINA,USA,AND RUSSIA
More will follow over the next few weeks
(I had trouble identifying Mainescu and Prescan,so they might be mixed up
a bit)

-Marinescu-1 1\2 yurchenko (hop to side)-9.537
-Cacovean-Phelps (hop)-9.537
-Milosovici-Phelps(hop to side)-9.637
-Amanar-double twisting yurchenko-9.887
-Gina-1 1\2 yurchenko(leg seperation and a big hop)-9.725


-amanar-geinger,free hip hect to hight,full pirouette to low
Tkachev,double lay-9.725
-Cacovean-giant full front giant pirouette geinger,full pirouette to
straddle back
handstand,tkachev,double lay-9.8
-Gogean-1 1\2 pirouette bail to handstand,VERY low tkachev,double
-Hatagan-two front giants,geinger,giant full tkachev,double tuck


-Milosovici-chen mount,ff layout ff(doesn't do a layout at the end
omelianchiks with no amplitude,double tuck dismount(hop)-9.775
-Marinescu-press handstand mount,2 ff to 2 layouts,side somi,2 ff to full
in(two steps)-
Andrea Cacovean-press handstand mount,ff to layout to two feet,switch
side,ff layout ff,2
ff to double back


Milosovici-(same routine as Dortmond)-double lay,3 whips to double full punch
front,triple full(good landings on all passes)-9.862
Amanar-Double Lay,whip throught to 2 1\2 punch front,full in,triple

*Notes*-Their gymnastics bores me to death.No personality or originality
at all.Marinescu
shows promise,but she'll probably end up like the rest.Gogean is one of
the worst
gymnasts *EVER* and Milosovici acted as if she didn't want to be
there.Should have used
Hatagan more.They won because they didn't miss.



-Huilan-(Still does the typewriter set)double lay,two whips immediate
double full,front full
to punch front,pike full in-9.8
-Liya-double lay,front full to high front tuck,2 1\2 punch front

Most everyone did 1 1\2 twisting yurchenkos(Mo did a double)

-Linlin-fell forward on RO FF double back dismount

You name it they did it

Sorry for the lack of info,but it was hard to tell who was who.This is
the team to watch
for in Atlanta next year.They had it all(except consistancy)Bars and Beam
have been their
strong events and now they've picked up some explosive vaulting and
tumbling.Nary a
form break from anyone...they even fell with pointed toes and legs
together.Mo's *TOO*
adorable and has become quite the All Arounder.Beautiful work from everyone.



-Strug-pike yaeger,full pirouette,reverse hect,full out(stuck)-9.725
-Arnold-uprise blind change,tkachev,markelov,had a little trouble with a
straddle back to
low bar,double lay(nice form but took a step)-9.675
-Phelps-yeager(a little close),tkachev,double front(9.675)
-Moceanu-shapashnikova to HIGH pak salto into back hip circle,giant full to
geinger,double lay(had terrible feet throughout the routine)-9.700
-Miller-hop full to geinger,giant full to tkachev,low full in(barely bar


Strug-planche mount,ff layout ff layout(bent knees on skills),punch
front,straddle jump
immediate omelianchik,double back(small shuffle back but this is the best
routine I've seen
Kerri do)-9.75
Phelps-fell on 3rd layout-9.282


-Kulikowski-full in(off balance and stepped out),triple full,front full
to punch front(best
dancer on the team)-9.262
-Arnold-whip through to full in,went out of control on triple full-9.037
-Thompson-1 1\2 stepout through to 2 1\2,front full punch front,2 1\2-9.60
-Strug-double lay,front full front layout,front full,full in(step
-Moceanu-pike full in(straddled and low),front full,front full front
layout to straight
jump,2 1\2 punch front,full twisting shusunova-9.775


-Thompson-tucked 1 1\2 yurchenko(second vault was better)-9.487
-Arnold-Hristakieva(stepped on the first and sat down the second)-9.325
-Phelps-phelps(had trouble on the preflight and had to tuck it)-9.462
-Miller-Hristakieva(big step forward)-9.712
-Moceanu-1 1\2 yurchenko

The team did well considering this was a weakened team.Jaycie was rumored
to pull out
of optionals but only did so on floor.Shannon looked like she was just
worn out and I
think it would be a good idea for her to lighten her schedule when she
gets back.Theresa
should have been used alot more than Mary Beth.I would have loved to have
seen her
yaeger half,but with a risky skill like that the coaches won't vote her
into the lineup.Doni
was consistent,but showed nothing flashy.I can't stand Dominique Moceanu's
gymnastics(although I DO think she's better than Gogean!)That floor
routine of hers
makes me ill,and she's capable of doing much more than she did
her...pointing her toes for
example.Good vaults though.The judges *LOVED* her here and was giving her
mighty big scores.Look for her to win the Olympics next year even though
she might not
deserve it.Hey it's in the US,so don't be suprised.Dominique Dawes,Amanda
and Amy
were missed.



-Bobrova-front on,RO FF layout,punch front immediate fish jump(wobble),double
-Grosheva-front on,ff layout,tuck jump immediate chen,nice leaps,double
-Kochetkova-she's so floaty-9.837
-Khorkina-full twisting ff mount to 2 ff,handstand ff gainer full
twisting ff,split leap
immediate rulfova,cartwheel gainer double full(stick)-9.8
-Prudneva-front on(fall),beautiful arms and leaps,front immediate fish
korbut,cool laid out barani,double front dismount(two steps)she is


-Kuznetsova-full in pike(staddled),rudi ff layout,front layout front
full,2 1\2 twist(great
landings on every pass)-9.662
-Dolgopolova-GOURGEOUS double lay,almost sat down a front full punch
whips to a double full,rudi ff(nice choreography and dance0-9.362
-Prudneva-arabian double punch front!!!!!!!!!!!!arabian to 2 front
layouts,rudi ff,layout
front punch front-9.80
-Grosheva-Pike full in(her feet slipped out from under her),double
twisting front,front
layout to front full,2 1\2(small stumble)-9.125
-Kochetkova-double lay,front full punch front layout,rudi,double
back(instead of the usual
full in)-9.787
-Khorkina-pike full in(low on landing),cool jump that I can't
describe,back 1 1\2 twist
punch rudi,triple full(low landing and took a few steps)-9.425


-Dolgopolova-handspring front with a full twist(fall)-9.325
-Kuznetsova-Hritakieva(hops on both)-9.562
-Bobrova-boomed a 1 1\2 twisting yurchenko stumbled a few steps then
landed flat on her
face.landed the other vault-9.525
-Kochetkova-Hristakieva(new vault for her) a little piked-9.575
-Khorkina-round off half twist on cuervo off-9.775


-Kuznetskova-thomas hop to geinger,yaeger,stuck double lay-9.762
-Grosheva-tkachev,roll to inverts to yaeger immed. pak salto,double front
-Kochetkova-wront way giant full to wrong way reverse hect immed. pak
salto,shapashnikova uprise free hip handstand,double lay(hop)-9.85
-Khorkina-Stalder 1 1\2 pirouette to markelov,thomas hop 1 1\2 pirouette
bail to
handstand,full out(stick)-9.912
-Bobrova-1 1\2 pirouette to immed. yaeger to immed. pak,full out(step

Now THIS team had style.Very classy and very original.Consistency is
everything else is there.Khorkina looked tired and seperated herself from
her teammates
most of the time.Kochetkova has great landings and Grosheva struggled on
a few
event.Bobrova is a major babe and it's nice to see that she's recovered
from her
injury.Kuznetsova can move and does some neat for her.

That's it for this round,



End of GYMN-L Digest - 12 Oct 1995 to 13 Oct 1995 - Special issue