GYMN-L Digest - 12 Nov 1995 to 13 Nov 1995

There are 10 messages totalling 454 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Subway Meet
  2. where is...
  3. Introduction
  4. gymnastics move ???
  5. Tatiana Gutsu
  6. Age Change (2)
  7. USA National team members in NCAA
  8. Gymn. Calendar
  9. Subway - some answers


Date:    Sun, 12 Nov 1995 23:47:00 -0500
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Subway Meet

        I had an awesome time at the meet today (Grace, I'm sorry we missed
each other; I did try to find you at the hotel, but you had already left).
        It was too bad that a lot of gymnasts made mistakes, and this put a
damper on the event.  A lot of the mistakes were weird.  For example, after
catching her Jaeger, Marinescu appeared to be going for a shoot to sole
circle on the low bar, then just fell off.
        Anyway, here are some of the routine highlights that I can remember
right now.
        Womens Vault:  Lilya did her Omeliantchik barani outs well, after
some very short landings in warm-up.  Liu Xuan's Yurchenko 1 1/2s were great
(she really sent a message that none of the Chinese women should be left out
of the AA picture for Atlanta).  Turgulan (sp?) did a Phelps, Marinesu did a
Yurchenko 1 1/2, Tousek and Ji Liya did Hristakievas.  Grosheva was
unfortunate to sit down both her Yurchenko 1 1/2s, after sticking a couple of
beautiful ones in the warm up.
        Bars:  Grosheva deservedly got the highest score with a huge tkatchev
and an amazing combo of giant blind immediate roll to inverts (not the same
as a Higgins roll) to piked Jaeger to Pak salto!  She finished with a double
front.  Liu did a nice Higgins roll to inverts to piked Jaeger, Tkatchev and
double layout.  Pods tied her, but I thought the judges were a bit generous,
considering her Gienger was too close, with the usual form break.  Tousek
unfortunately didn't connect her Hindorff-pak combo (she took an extra swing
- what's the deduction for that?).  Her piked Jaeger and double layout were
good though.  Sadly, Lavoie, one of my favourites, fell on her dismount, and
had to withdraw (I don't know what the injury was; I did see her limping
later though).
        Beam:  Liu was great here, showing three different Yang Bo jumps, and
a sky high "Latvian Layout" (as someone on the forum once put it).  Pods
almost lost the title when her piked Chen went crooked.  The rest was solid.
Tousek provided another highlight with her front handspring step-out front
tuck.  Galieva was really good here: layout on, ff layout ff layout
(MacEachern did this also), a Rulfova (which she never warmed up; what a nice
surprise for the audience!) and double tuck.  I must say that Galieva appears
to be very much a gamer.  She did not warm up too well (particularly on vault
and beam) but came through in the meet, with the exception of her Tkatchev on
bars, which she warmed up great, only to fall in the meet (although she
remounted and repeated it successfully).  Marinesu was also great here (her
Yang Bo jumps and side somi were nice), and she did two ffs to full-in.
Brion also nailed this same dismount, but fell twice during the routine.
        Floor:  What amazing tumbling!  Pods took out her double front barani
out, but her piked full-in dismount was I think the best she's done it all
year.  Her floor clinched the title, after Xuan, who had led up to that
point, took a few steps out of bounds on her whip to triple full mount.  Ji
didn't do her layout full-in, and her mount and dismount were both short.
Marinescu did an amazing front double-full punch front, and she and her
teammate both ended with two of the best triple fulls I've ever seen (is this
the new Romanian trademark).  Tousek had amazing choreography (the best of
the meet IMHO), and a solid arabian double front and triple full to boot.
Brion had a terrible time here.  First, she landed her double layout out of
bounds (she tumbles so long; she's so small and I think she only uses four
steps in her approach).  Her piked full-in was amazing with great form, but
at the end she fell out of bounds (and almost right off the podium; she was
saved by, I think it was one of the Chinese coaches) on a whip to triple full
(a shame since she warmed it up perfectly).  I think there should have been
more room around the mat.  If I were a gymnast tumbling on there, I wouldn't
feel too safe!
        Well, I think I'm going to go to bed soon, so maybe I'll post some
mens highlights tomorrow.  I don't know mens pommels too well, and I don't
have as good a memory with the mens routines.  I'll give it a try anyway.
        With most of these athletes also going to the Atlanta meet, you
American fans are in for a treat!
                Good night!  From Chris


Date:    Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:14:22 GMT
From:    ***@CS.BHAM.AC.UK
Subject: where is...

Anybody have a contacty address for the US trampolinist Jennifer Sans?



Date:    Mon, 13 Nov 1995 16:45:48 EST
From:    ***@DGE.CEO.DG.COM
Subject: Introduction

CEO document contents:

Hello from the City Of Birmingham, England. Although I have a keen interest in
sport I must admit at being rather a novice in terms of Gymanastics. My recent
interest has arisen because of my six year old daughter, Charlotte, succesfully
passing trials and becoming a member of the City of Birmingham Gym club, where
she now trains twice a week. With Gymnastics suddenly becoming very prominent
in our family life, its been very dissapointing to find the UK media (TV and
press) give it very little time. However, coming across this discussion forum,
and the Web pages hosted by Rachele, has provided us with some very useful
information, as we take our first steps into this sport.

My main interests in joining _GYMN_ include not only wanting to learn more
about Gymnastics at a world level but also in understanding the British scene
at both a club and National level . I notice that the _GYMN_ calendar includes
several UK events and i'd welcome receiving more information on these events
(particularly the Grand Prix in Birmingham next month). I'm also on the lookout
for advanced notice of any TV programmes, showing Gymnastics events, that are
receivable in the UK on either terrestial or satellite telvision.

Unfortunately as a "novice" I probably won't be able to contribute too much to
the discussions taking place on _GYMN_, however i'll be reading the postings
with much interest and if I do come across anything that maybe of interest then
i'll post it to the group.




Date:    Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:06:32 -0500
Subject: gymnastics move ???

I was watching my tape of the Sabae Worlds, and was reminded of a
question I have been meaning to ask.  What is the move called that looks
like a front handspring with severely bent elbows.  The gymnasts head
looks like it is practically touching the ground.  I am not 100% sure,
but I think Gina Gogean does one into the corner before a pass.


Date:    Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:09:00 -0500
Subject: Tatiana Gutsu

Last I heard, Tatiana Gutsu was training here in Indiana...for a comeback
in the 1996 Olympics.  I believe someone mentioned before that another
former gymnast is training with her attempting a comeback also.  There
was a news story done at the very beginning of 95, out of Indianapolis.
Her coach is American...
Gymnly Yours,


Date:    Mon, 13 Nov 1995 16:56:12 -0600
Subject: Re: Age Change

Any way the age restrictions change will effect someone badly. Perhaps there
should be a waiver for the athletes since they had been training to
peak in this coming Olympic year. Maybe, but if there is going to be a change
in this sport with ages, it has to start somewhere.

I still think coaches, more than athletes, effect when a gymnast peaks.
Ten years from now things might be different and athletes will peak at 18 or
older. But if that is what the FIG wants, they have to change the age rules
to prevent coaches from trying to get super athletes by 12 years old so that
they can compete internationally and get a "name" prior to the Olympics.

I repeat the fact that age changes have occurred before, olympics have
been boycotted, and other events have occured outside the athletes's power.
There has to be someone who says "enough is enough" and if it is by changing
the age rules, then do it. Beats having a bunch of washed up 16 year
olds or younger who are burnt out.


P.S. See ya in Atlanta this Thursday night.


Date:    Mon, 13 Nov 1995 16:09:05 -0600
Subject: USA National team members in NCAA

Date sent:  13-NOV-1995 15:28:04

*smiles happily* OK, you asked for this.

Well, anyhow, someone asked a few months back (around June) about national
team members who ended up in the NCAA's. This is my compilation, through
the 1994 nationals, by year, and including the Olympic trials in 1988 and
1992. This is long, so be forewarned. Also, I know I am missing a few
people in here, most likely, so please feel free to add in anything I

1988 Olympic trials (no national results here)
1)Phoebe Mills (swtiched to diving)
2)Kelly Garrison-Steves (already attending Oklahoma)
3)Hope Spivey (attended Georgia)
4)Brandy Johnson (retired, still training?)
5)Chelle Stack (attending Oklahoma)
6)Missy Marlowe (attended Utah)
7)Rhonda Faehn (attended UCLA)
8)Kristie Phillips (retired)
9)Christy Henrich (retired, we all know the rest)
10)Sheryl Dundas (attended Alabama)
11)Stacey Gunthorpe (no info available)
12)Lisa Panzironi (attended Florida)
13)Kristen Kenoyer (attended Utah)
14)Robin Richter (no info available)
15)Carol Ulrich (attended UCLA)
16)Kim Kelly (attending Alabama)
17)Tina Snowden (attended Stanford)
18)Danna Lister (attended ASU)
19)Doe Yamashiro (no info available)
20)Joyce Wilborn (no info available)
21)Sabrina Mar (most likely retired due to the back problems, but...)
22)DeeDee Foster (attended Alabama)

1989 National Championships
1)Brandy Johnson (see above)
2)Christy Henrich (see above)
3)Sandy Woolsey (attending Utah)
4)Jenny Ester (attending ? ASU, might be past tense)
5)Wendy Bruce (retired, NCAA ineligible, I think)
6)Juliet Bangerter (attending BYU)
7)Chelle Stack (see above)
8)Kristen Kenoyer (see above)
9)Sheryl Dundas (see above)
10)Stephanie Woods (attending Alabama)
11)Lisa Panzironi (see above)
12)Chari Knight (attended OSU)
13)Kim Kelly (see above)
14)Jennifer Merceir (attending Utah)
15)Anne Dixon (attending UCLA)
16)Diane Cushenberry (attending Oklahoma)
17)Tracey Cole (might be at Oklahoma, but I don't know)
18)Marna Neubauer (attending Alabama)
19)Robin Richter (no info available)
20)Agina Simpkins (attended Georgia :))

1990 national championships
1)Kim Zmeskal (NCAA ineligible)
2)Betty Okino (unsure, but I think ineligible, or is enjoying touring)
3)Brandy Johnson (see above)
4)Erika Stokes (retired)
5)Sandy Woolsey (see above)
6)Kim Kelly (see above)
7)Agina Simpkins (see above)
8)Shannon Miller (NCAA ineligible, still competing elite)
9)Amy Shrerr (no info available)
10)Christy Henrich (see above)
11)Chelle Stack (see above)
12)Elisabeth Crandall (attending BYU)
13)Juliet Bangerter (see above)
14)Christine Tonry (no info available)
15)Marna Neubauer (see above)
16)Danna Lister (see above)
17)Jennifer Merceir (see above)
18)Chari Knight (see above)
19)Stephanie Woods (see above)
20)Fuller Frenz (no info, but could this be Alysa Frenz at Utah?)

1991 Nationals (ok, our system is shutting down in fifteen minutes, so
I'm just listing the new entries)
3)Kerri Strug (committed to UCLA)
6)Hilary grivich (switched to diving)
9)Dominique Dawes (cmmitted to Stanford, but lost scholarship)
10)Molly Shawen (no info available)
11)Shelly Engel (retired)
13)Hilary Andersen (no info)
14)Michelle Campi (committed to Washington)
19)Suzanne Metz (attended Utah)
20)Larissa Fontaine (comitted to Stanford)

1992 nationals
5)Amanda Borden (committed to Georgia)
8)Kristen McDermott (attending Arizona)
12)Sarah Balogach (attending Auburn)
13)Traci Sommer (attending Utah)
14)heidi Honrbeek (attending Arizona)
15)Monica Shaw (attending Utah)
18)Kim Arnold (attending Georgia)
19)Jennifer McKenna (I think she's at ASU)

1993 nationals (only going with those old enough, folks)
8)Jenni Beathard (attending Georgia
11)Summer Reid (attending Utah)
12)Samantha Muhleman (attending georgia, I think she's injured right now)
14)Katie Fitzpatrick (attending Stanford)
15)Lisa Gianni (attending Alabama)
18)Karin Lichey (attending Georgia)

1994 Nationals
11)Martha grubbs (attending Florida)
15)Ashley Kever (attending Alabama)

OK, that's all I have from the national teams that I can identify. But,
just of note, here are a few stats from those who have been at the top
of the NCAA's but never made the national team...

jenny Hansen (1991 Nationals, 27th)
Beth Wymer (26th in 1989, 29th in 1990)
Heather Kabnick (28th in 1991, 26th in 1992)
Leslie Angeles (22nd in 1991, 31st in 1992)
Becky Erwin (31st in 1989)
Kim Bonoventura (30th in 1990, 26th in 1991, 36th in 1992)
Dana Dobransky (made the national team in 1987)
Kristen Guise (31st in 1991, 27th in 1992)
Amy myerson (30th in 1990)

OK, that's all I had time for. I'm sorry if I forgot someone.
Hope this was somewhat enlightening.


Date:    Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:03:44 -0500
Subject: Gymn. Calendar

I saw an advertisement for a 1996 Gymnastics Calendar in one of my IG.  I
was wondering,  since a price wasn't given, if someone knew how much is
was.  There was an address given, but I am afraid that if I write to find
out the price, that it would take a long time before I would get a
reply.  It said there was a limited number produced.  The cover has
Dominique Dawes in her splits mount on beam, she is wearing an ugly
leotard IMO.  Anyway, I would appreciate the help.
Gymnly Yours,


Date:    Mon, 13 Nov 1995 16:04:00 -0700
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Re: Age Change

| Any way the age restrictions change will effect someone badly. Perhaps there
| should be a waiver for the athletes since they had been training to
| peak in this coming Olympic year.

The age rule change takes effect after the 1996 Olympics, so no
athletes will be affected in the upcoming Games.



Date:    Mon, 13 Nov 1995 21:09:15 -0400
Subject: Subway - some answers

Hi, I just got back from Hamilton after driving all day.  It's snowing and
miserable out.  I got most of my photos done in Hamilton, but my last roll
of film just got blown  away at the photo shop in Ottawa.  Sorry for not
posting more details, as the telecomm arrangements were ... well ... there
weren't any.  This means that I couldn't access this account (and thus
unable to post things
on my web pages) from Hamilton at all since Saturday morning.

Also, apologies to Chris for missing our meeting.  I stayed in Hospitality
from 10 to 11am -- we were watching "Apollo 13". I went down to the lobby
but it turned out that brunch didn't start until 11:30am (even though I
reserved for 11am -- $%^@ hotel fools).  I saw the Chinese team off and went
back up to Hospitality for more free (Subway) food before taking off to
Copps.  I grabbed some sandwiches for you in hopes of running into you later.
I hope you got food, after all. Thanks for providing the details, Chris.
It was hard taking photos and notes, especially when there were three
events going on simultaneously.  I'll need assistants next year.  :^)

The photo chutes were restricted to three of the corners of the arena.
These were very tough places to shoot from.  I was lucky enough to be asked
by the organizers to go out on the floor to shoot the athletes on the
equipment which were adorned by sponsor logos.  So, for those of you who
were there, I was
wearing a navy sweater and an off-white skirt, and trying not to get into the
CBC TV camera sightlines.  BTW, lady GYMN reporters, don't wear a skirt when
you have to get to the press box via a mesh-wired catwalk (fortunately there
weren't many spectators/voyeurs in the cheap seats).

I met Allan Claus during the competition and at the "disco" party last
night.  We had a nice chat.  But we didn't talk about the following...

Q.  What's a Hindorff?
A.  It is element #2.501 in the women's Code of Points.  It has an "E" value
(because not many women perform it).  It is a "clear hip circle on HB through
handstand, counter straddle to hang on HB" and is usually done facing the LB.
It is named for East German Silvia Hindorff (late '70's/early '80's).

Q.  And an Ono?
A.  An Ono is a Japanese-American widow of a Beatle.  I don't recall exactly
what Alexis did before her dismount in competition.  In my judging
observation notes from Saturday, I thought it was a full-turning downswing
from handstand (from giant), which is an Oka. This is a "D" element and is
named after Canadian gymnast Koyuki Oka. It would make sense to take it to
a double front dismount because she'd be in a reverse grip. If you play it
in reverse it looks like a Chusovitina/Thomas (giant hop-full) that didn't
happen on top of the bar.  (Maybe it should be an Ono -- "if you play it in

Q.  A Depp?
A.  Whoops.  I meant a Deff.  A Depp is a good Buster Keaton impersonator.

Q.  Why is the girl Yvonne from Canada ahead of the girl from China when
the girl from China had higher scores?
A.  Yvonne Tousek finished sixth AA with 38.400 points, while Ji Liya finished
ninth with 37.562 points.  Both had problems on bars.  Yvonne took a 0.3
extra swing deduction after her Hindorff and missed 0.2 in connection bonus
(E+D) because she was supposed to do a Pak salto (layout back salto to LB) from
it.  She ended up with a 9.3.  Ji fell onto the LB with her stomach in her
shoot over for 0.5 deduction and a connection bonus (0.2 or 0.1) from
whatever release it was from the HB.  She must have missed her hands or
something.  She had another problem that I can't recall at the moment
because almost everyone had problems on bars.  She ended up with a 8.7.

Q.  What happened to Marleen Lavoie and Theresa Wolf?
A.  Theresa scratched just prior to the competition.  She had jammed her ankle
on a bars dismount in training Friday night, but thought she could still
compete.  She withdrew to prevent further injury.  The same thing happened
to Marleen during the competition and she scratched after bars.

Q.  How much money did they get?
A.  According to Alan Nolet, 1st AA gets $5,000 (Cdn), 2nd $3,000, 3rd
$2,000.  For each event, 1st gets $600, then $400, then $200.  By my
Alan should get $6,600 and Lilia should get $6,200.

Now, a question for y'all: Is Pod's vault (#4.508) a Phelps?

That's it for now.  I've got to get to my web page updates.  Stay tuned.



End of GYMN-L Digest - 12 Nov 1995 to 13 Nov 1995