GYMN-L Digest - 10 Jun 1996 - Special issue

There are 22 messages totalling 628 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. Copies of the nationals
2. Help! Goofed up my Glory
3. Media coverage of gymnastics
4. Further WAG Nat'ls Comments
5. Nationals (3)
6. NATIONALS:(Don't read if you haven't seen it!)
7. Onodi update
8. GYMN-L Digest - 10 Jun 1996
9. olympic times?
10. Georgia Dome info
11. NBC tv schedule information
12. MAG: Nationals - Bill Roth/John R.
13. Gymnastics on the radio?
14. Coach/gymnast relationships at Nationals, my thoughts.
15. Jaycie Phelps & a ?
16. Nationals Tape?
17. More WAG:National Championships
18. GYMN-L Digest - 8 Jun 1996 - Special issue
19. Lay Errors
20. Further WAG Nat'ls Comments (long)

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:01:18 -0400
From: ***@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU
Subject: Re: Copies of the nationals

I am also in the same boat. We just moved and didn't have cable and I
missed it all. If a kind soul would like to make me a copy I would be
very greatful. Monica

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:34:15 -0400
From: ***@FREENET.CARLETON.CA
Subject: Help! Goofed up my Glory

On Saturday May 25 I meant to tape _Road to Glory: Olympics_ the
Gymnastics episode. Somehow I ended up taping the Dream Team one.
I even tuned in to check that I was taping the correct one, but
I just happened to tune in when Magic Johnson was watching gym and
I thought I had it right. I didn't look at the tape until last
night and was very disappointed.

Would anyone help out a poor unfortunate with a copy of the epsiode?
I'm sure we could come up with something agreeable.

John

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:42:27 -0500
From: ***@MAIL.COIN.MISSOURI.EDU
Subject: Re: Media coverage of gymnastics

In response to Garlfar's post about media coverage of gymnastics, I wish
to address two points that he raised.

> jumping finals. EVERYDAY. You mean to tell me that they can't post the
> results of the U.S. Classic, the rhythmic national championships, and even
> the national championships? A few crumby articles about Shannon Miller and

Depending on what newspaper you subscribe to, the amount of coverage you
get on a certain sport varies. Some newspapers that I have seen see fit
to only cover the NBA, as if basketball was the only sport that occurs in
America. In Garlfar's case, the Atlanta paper is reporting in the same
manner.
The final decision about what goes in a newspaper rests with the sports
editor, and the editor himself. Thus, if either or both of these people
do not want to cover gymnastics meets, it is their perogative. A way to
change that is to have enough people to write in and request that more
gymnastics
coverage be included.

> I know from personal experience- TAKE WHAT YOU SEE IN THE MEDIA WITH A GRAIN
> OF SALT. This isn't just about gymnastics, it's about everything. There is
> always more to the story, than what meets the eye.

Being a member of the media myself, I can assure you that while there are
some bad apples in the bunch, most journalists attempt to and do an
excellent job. Some stories may not be covered as they should be, and
that is unfortunate. But what we try to do is give the most information
possible, in the most compact form.

So, when you think about why the newspapers in your area do not cover
your favorite sport as much as you think they should, remember that it is
the editorial decisions that keep them out, not the reporters'.

--Michael :)

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:32:08 -0500
From: ***@UTMB.EDU
Subject: Further WAG Nat'ls Comments

>Stress -- Shannon didn't een seem pleased with her performances, she
>kept referring to her "mistake".

Yes, except after her first vault. You could tell from her facial
expression that it took all she had not to smile. Boy, can she nail
those landings!

>Dom M. -- I don't like her FX, "The devil went down to Georgia", while
>kinda cute when you think about it, wasn't really a great show of Dom's
>talent. The coreography (sp) reminded me a lot of Kim Z.

and

>Bela -- I think that he needs to come up with a different style for his
>gymnsats. The cute little butt shaking really annoys me.

AMEN! It just doesn't work for everybody, especially Kerry Strug.

>Steve -- The "go baby" comments made my conserative parents uneasy.

I don't think conservativism has anything to do with it. I'm as liberal
as they come, and I thought it was inappropriate.

>Shannon -- I am really glad that she did well. I liked her FX a lot!
>It was the most mature shown (IMHO).

It was elegant.


>Does Shannon have just one record of gypsy violin music?
>It seems that every new routine is another 90-second cut. But,
>silly me, I still love it--she has great music and her own style.

This is something I've always liked about Shannon - her FX music and
choreography. It has a class that so few other have. Also, it always
lacks the sensationalism of the loud marches or classical pieces and is
much easier to choreograph dance to.

>(And thank god Nunno stopped putting his other gymnasts' routines to
>"Shannon music" and "Shannon hairstyles" etc...)

Yes! The first time I saw Alicia Ingraham I thought "OH NO! They're going
to take away Shannon's uniqueness." I was very pleased to see Jennie
Thompson's hair in a ponytail and *without* the little "skrunchy puffy
hair thing" (sorry, but I don't know what they're called!)

As far as Dom Moceanu is concerned, I think she had an awakening
during the competition. She entered that meet expecting to win. Did you
see at the end of the broadcast -- they showed her saying "Thanks" a
couple of times to people who were (I assume) congratulating her on her
3rd place finish. The "Thanks" was said in a manner like "I failed". I
think that the little girl is a little too overconfident and that all the media
attention has maybe made her lose focus of what she really needs to do
to succeed. We'll see at the trials whether she has a different attitude.

Also, her comments in the post competition interview were so canned that
she might as well have been reading them directly off a cue card.

Joel

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:35:24 +0100
From: ***@ASUCLA.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Nationals

I'm glad to see all the female gymnasts finally doing double layouts.. after
all, the Soviets were doing this 6 years ago...

I was impressed with Shannon's maturity but really disappointed with the
level of choreography and dance among the FXs shown... They were reallly
really bad... Shannon usually has interesting FX routines but her music just
didn't go anywhere and everyone else was just yucky...

I guess when Gogean is your World Champion on floor there is nowhere to go
but down...

Love,
Me

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:54:57 -0400
From: ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: NATIONALS:(Don't read if you haven't seen it!)

WAY TO GO SHANNON!!!!!!
I am so impressed right down to my birthday suit. Shannon has been
through ALOT in terms of criticism of whether or not she can even compete
at her age (even though I think 19 years of age is not that old
considering Bogi who is 20 something. Also, I think that finally the
sport is showing that older does not mean lower degree of difficulty at
all. In fact, it shows that older gymnasts have more power, and alot
more experience which evidently payed off big time at Nationals. Notice
that every single one of the veterans (Dominique Dawes, Shannon Miller,
Amanda Borden ,etc. really knew how to STICK THOSE LANDINGS!! Except for
when Miller fell, but it shows that experience paid off. She(Miller just
shrugged it off and came away with the all-around championship. I don't
think any of the other gymnasts really showed consistency in sticking the
landings. Only the veterans did, I mean really did. (ex. Shannon's
vault. It just doesn't get any better than that!)
I think that in preperation for trials, AND Atlanta, those U.S. coaches
will probably drill the gymnasts into sticking those landings. They were
really bad. Also, everyone seemed so tense, except Jaycie. As alot of
you have stated, this is a concern to me. What will trials be like?

Anyway, better end it here. My best wishes to all of the athletes. GO
USA!!!!!!!!

Dreaming of Atlanta All-Around U.S. Gold,
Valerie

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:08:01 CDT
From: ***@ADMIN.STEDWARDS.EDU
Subject: Onodi update

A quick note :

My local paper ran a story yesterday on a pentathlete (Stull?) who barely
missed making the Olympic team. At then end of the article it mentions that
he is leaving for Hungary to visit his girlfriend, 1992 Olympic gold medalist
Henrietta Onodi, who is back in her country working on her comeback. Stull
mentions that it will be hard for him because they have both shared the olympic
dream and now he won't be going to Atlanta. He goes on to say that he is
excited for Henrietta, however, because she HAS qualified and will be a member
of the Hungarian team. GREAT, huh?! Henrietta has been living and training in
San Antonio for a couple of years now while attending classes at Incarnate Word
College.

One more thing...this week's US News and World Report features a nice article on
one of the US' brightest hopes for Atlanta...Dawes! The article is entitled,
"And Her Name is Not Moceanu" Check it out.


Cole
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:49:13 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 10 Jun 1996

>Stress -- Shannon didn't een seem pleased with her performances, she kept
>referring to her "mistake".

Quite to the contrary! I was actually suprised at how much she smiled after
each performance (with the obvious exception of her beam routine). Even
though I think Steve Nunno is rather annoying with his loud and "go baby"
comments, he really did keep Shannon's spirits up throughout the meet. (I
thought John Tesh's comment of "this just in: Shannon Miller has just lost
partial hearing in her right ear" was funny) I also thought Shannon was
genuinely pleased with winning, especially after she found out she won from
that reporter.

Jenny

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:03:04 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Nationals

First of all congragulations to Shannon Miller,
she can really turn a competition around~! I am extremly happy for
Dawes too. Not only for turning in an exceptional optional competition
but also for winning all 4 event finals!!

Everyone is saying how rude Karolyi was when he
said " That was not a good one" to Moceanu after her bars routine.
Well, I disagree. It was in fact, "not a good one". Would we rather him
jump and down and cheer for her? I understand that it was a little
harsh but it was true and she knew it.

I really like Amanda Borden. I like her floor
routine and her sportsmanship. She is really a great all-around
gymnast!!


Well, that's all for now! And, oh, will someone
please e-mail me and tell me what place Trent Dimas came in?

Laura

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:09:01 PDT
From: ***@AMDAHL.CO.ZA
Subject: olympic times?

Could someone please let me know the exact times of all the Olympic
gymnastics events? (specify time zone) Thanks.
Helen.

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:13:52 EDT
From: ***@EOS.NCSU.EDU
Subject: Georgia Dome info

Greetings, fellow Gymn'ers!

If you're like me and are wondering where your seats might be for the
gymnastics in the Georgia Dome, I found some info the Web. If you go to

http://www.gwcc.com/domeinfo.htm

and then click on the picture of the football field, you'll get a layout
of the Georgia Dome. You'll have to scroll down to the bottom, because
that's where the gymnastics seating sections are.

For women's compulsory podium training, I'm in Section 104, and for
optional pod training, Section 105. Great seats--lower level just right
of center. For women's morning compos, Section 111, and afternoon
compos, Section 140. These are on opposite wings. For women's team
finals (morning), Section 306, and Section 310 that afternoon. And
Section 308 for the women's all-around. Semi-nosebleed territory for
the last three. But I consider it a minor miracle that I got as many
tickets as I did. If anyone else is in these sections, stop by and say
hi. I'd love to meet you.

If anyone is going to the gold medal baseball game, I'm in Section 301L.
Third deck, again, but right behind the plate. I'm bringin' my glove.

See you there!

--BRENT

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:42:47 -0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: NBC tv schedule information

Live event showings:
First 7 nights will begin with a live gold medal final in swimming.

Other nights we will lead off with track and field live for five or six nights

Sunday, July 28 will be the Dream Team game live
Women's basketball game will be the last night.

Also, it was stated at USA Nationals that more than 55% of coverage will go
to gymnastics on the nights that it is being covered.

Mayland

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:14:34 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Nationals

HI-
I haven't written in awile and part of the reason was I was getting sorta
bored of gymnastics, but WOW did Nationals wake me up!
I was VERY impressed and I thought I'd share my coments to see if anyone else
agrees.
-First of all, I was in awe watching Shannon Miller. I was starting to doubt
her, and her chances in Atlanta, but she really gained all my respect here!
The punch front really adds something to her BB and the full in was rock
solid just as last year, I also was impressed with her PERFECT 1st vault (I
thought 9.8 was a little low even with the 9.9 s.v) and the beautiful 11/2
twisting yerchenko. Her double layout off bars, was MUCH IMPROVED, but the
highlight for me was Floor. I never knew Shannon could tumble like that. The
much awaited double layout was unexpected, and the new front tumbling 3ed
pass and full in were beautiful! Shannon Miller has hung in for 4 years since
Barcelona and to my suprise, in my opinion is a better gymnast now then she
was then.

I think its good that Moceanu gets her mistakes out of the way now. That will
relieve some of the pressures in Atlanta. Part of the reason the Zmeskal
saga in Barcelona was such a shock was because Kim never missed. This
mistake by Moceanu (and I really think she should omit the pak salto and put
the reverse hecht back in) will prove to herself, her coach and the media
that their cover girl is human. I really like her new floor music too. The
devil went down to Georiga is a great pick and Dominique's facial expression,
especially before the last pass is great! I heard she was going to throw a
double front in! Wouldn't it of been better to get it in now before trials
when everything is at stake?
Well, before I go, a couple of other things that impressed me were Dawes
tumbing and comeback after compulsaries (I'm so glad they'll be out after
Atlanta, I wish before!) and Kerri Strug's two front fulls in a row on
floor. Also glad to see Phellps' full in dismount of FX.
Oh, and did u notice that Jennie is now 4'9"! Wow, at four three last year
that's quite a stretch!
Anyone know the name of Shannon's music?
Sorry it's so long!
Things are definatlly looking up for our STRONG US TEAM with an increase in
diffulculty from everyone! Wishing them the best!
gymnastically,
MElissa :)

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:49:53 -0400
From: ***@FIR.FBC.COM
Subject: MAG: Nationals - Bill Roth/John R.

Someone mentioned that Bill Roth said he couldn't feel his arms. On the
broadcast, I thought I heard him say something similar. I heard him say
something like, "I couldn't feel my arms ... they were just ... dead." I
couldn't believe he got right back up without trying to clear his head first,
catch his breath and regain some strength, especially if his arms were tired.
You could tell he wasn't into it as he swung his circles lethargically and with
barely any elevation. It was a shock and hard to watch. If anyone has any more
info on this or corrections, please let us know.

It brought back shades of the '88 Trials when Dan (or was it Dennis) Hayden fell
twice off high bar on two Kovacs attempts. I don't remember the exact numbers
but before that final event, he had a virtual lock on making the team.
(On the plus side, it put Dominick Minicucci from my hometown on the team.)

Does anyone have any information on the scoring change for John Roethlisberger
on p-bars? What did the judges deduct for the first time around that was
overlooked after the petition?

- Tony

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:52:28 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Gymnastics on the radio?

A couple people have mentioned the Amy Chow ad that was shown at
Nationals. Pretty funny idea, but remember, at the height of the
Tonya-Nancy hype, the ladies' technical and free skating programs were
broadcast on the radio. "Katerina is wearing a red lace, uh, bodice . . . and
a full skirt," was one of the commentator's remarks. It was hilarious.

Leslie

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:07:40 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Coach/gymnast relationships at Nationals, my thoughts.

1) I don't see what all this bickering and complaining about Shannon
being referred to as 'baby' by Nunno. Don't you think that Shannon, who
you all (mostly) respect as an athlete could have your respect as a
humna being and be able to tell Nunno that being referred to as baby
bothers her? Or is she too immatuer and timid to speak up for herself.
Did you ever stop to think it may not bother her to be referred to as
baby by Nunno. Maybe she's okay with it since he isn't at a 'strip show'
as one person put it.


2) What is up with this Karolyi bashing because of what he said to Dom
after bars? Do those who felt it was too harsh, what do you want him to do,
jump up and down and say ' way to cover, badly!' If these two have any
sort of coach/gymnast relationship that the media has hyped, I wouldn't
expect anything more than the brutal truth from either of them.


Jeff

Dina, Dina, Dina.

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:38:49 -0500
From: ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: Jaycie Phelps & a ?

I'm really glad to see that Jaycie is finally getting the recognition
she's deserved. Even here on this list, before this year's Nationals
she wasn't mentioned very often. She's been my favorite gymnast for a
long time and, as many people have already pointed out, she really
didn't "come out of nowhere." I wrote to Jaycie when she was still at
Desert Devils (I was the first person to write her a fan letter => )
and she sent me back a very nice letter and an autographed sports
card. The first time I saw her compete was on a tape of the '93
American Classic where I was very impressed with her style-
especially on floor. I wrote to her again soon after she moved to
Cincinnati and she once again responded with a very pleasant letter.
Since than I've seen her many times on TV, such as World Trials,
Peachtree Classic (Kodak Invite) on ESPN and Nationals. I thought
that the "fluff" piece done about her was not at all "fluffy" => but
offered a good look at the dedication she has and how much she's
improved because of hard work and determination. She seems like a
really sweet person and I wish her the best of luck at Trials and at
all her other upcoming meets. I'd also like to add that I love her
current floor routine and I think the style suits her very well.
Would anyone be interested in having me post the letter I received
from her in '93? If so, e-mail me and if a few people say they'd like
to read it I'll post it. She talks about her hobbies, pets and
gymnastics in it.
Onto a completely different subject: a random question someone who
was at Nats might be able to answer for me- I noticed floor music
from West Side Story ("America") in the background during Amanda's
bar routine (actually I can't remember who's routine and what
apparatus but I think that's right). Does anyone know who's routine
it was? Also, if someone who was there could E-mail me I'd appreciate
it. I have some questions about specific gymnasts and don't want to
bother everyone on the list with them.
Thanks! Sara =)

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:46:18 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Nationals Tape?

I missed taping the US Nationals on TV this weekend, so I was wondering
if anyone around NY has a tape. I'll pay for shipping and a tape. Someone
please HELP!
Thanks!
Dawn :)

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:09:13 -0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject: Re: More WAG:National Championships

Actually in regard to what was said about the women's team not liking
each other, nothing could be farther from the truth.
Dawes and miller are great friends, as well as miller, strug, and
thompson. I also remeber borden saying how much she like dawes fontaine,
strug and miller. I think that the reason they show no team spirit
during competitions is related to their coaches attitudes.
Alisa

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:49:32 -0400
From: ***@AMHUX4.AMHERST.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 8 Jun 1996 - Special issue

I'm really sorry if this is an ignorant question to ask and everyone
knows the answer except me, but do the Nationals score count for the
women towards making the Olympic team? And if not, then why do the mens
count?

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:48:38 +1000
From: ***@COUGAR.VUT.EDU.AU
Subject: Lay Errors

I was just reading through the Australian official radio broadcast guide
to the Olympics and when i got to the gymnastics section i had to giggle :)
They had printed a lovely pic of Tatiana Lisenko in full split on the
beam with a caption reading something like: TATIANA BOUTSON- ON THE WAY
TO THE 1992 ALL AROUND GOLD MEDAL. Hmm....not matter how hard i try i
cant seem to find one accurate piece of info anywhere there!
Their predictions were basically the winners from Sabae inc.
teams and individuals. Rythymic pick was Petrova. Interestingly, their
rythymic rankings coming into Atlanta were 1. Lukianenko, 2. Batchyrina
with Serabianskaya in 4th (please excuse my spelling if no names are
correct!) maybe a printing mistake, but i like it.

Corey

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:26:56 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Further WAG Nat'ls Comments (long)

I hate to be in the minority here, but here it goes -

Shannon's floor - While I was very impressed with the tumbling (and finally
the upgrade to a double layout), it is the same routine she's always done. I
like it the first two times, and the music fits her, but it would be nice to
see her do something different. Also, her dance is too fast (and at times
emotionless) in parts for the slow music. I like the routine overall, though.

I also thought she was overscored on beam. Her bars are better, and the
double layout is better than it used to be, but she still doesn't get any
height on her dismount and her legs are crooked. It's great to see her go for
it, but it's not there yet. However, on vault she's never looked better. Her
Yurchenko 1/2 was the best I've ever seen it done and her 1 1/2 is great for
such a new vault. Actually, it would be great for a very old vault, too.

Dom. M - I like her new floor routine. It suits her. Yes, there's wiggling,
but it fits her personality. (I thank God there isn't any fake piano playing
in it.) The tumbling really does need to be upgraded, but at least her second
pass was upgraded to a 1 1/2 front and her 2 1/2 twist has a whip into it.
Tim Dagget said she was to have upgraded tumbling, but that her heels
prevented her from competing it here. I would have liked to seen some
upgrades on beam and bars. Someone wrote on the list that she has performed a
Miller with another half twist. It was disappointing to see her do routines
that weren't up to par.

Jennie Thompson is practically unbearable to watch. She has some fantastic
moves -- escpecially on beam -- but her knees stick out and her head is never
in line with the rest of her body. Yes, it is much improved, but there's a
long way to go.

Kerri seems to have lost her improved form on beam.

Dom. Dawes was superb on every event. :)

I loved seeing Jaycie (Great bars dismount!) and Amanda so supportive of one
another and other gymnasts. Jaycie was shown clapping after one of Shannon's
routines. I think the lack of unity on the US team is the biggest problem
they have.

Also, I loved all the routines NBC showed, and the fact that they only had
one feature. The mikes did get annoying at times, but it was interesting to
hear the coaches before and after the routines. Nunno wins hands down as the
most annoying.

I'm sorry this got to be so long. I didn't mean it to be when I started out.

LeeAnn

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 10 Jun 1996 - Special issue
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