GYMN-L Digest - 8 Sep 1995 to 9 Sep 1995

There are 12 messages totalling 598 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Support
  2. Vault values
  3. Lisa Moro on 'Today'
  4. floor ex's
  5. USA World Team Trials: Comments on Women's Compulsories
  6. USA World Team Trials: Men's Compulsories event scores
  7. '95 Intl. Jr. Champs.
  8. Italy vs Russia (men), Italy vs Russia vs Spain (women)
  9. USA World Team Trials: Men's Team
 10. Phelps Article
 11. New Book
 12. Floor routines and choreography, NCAA difficiculty


Date:    Fri, 8 Sep 1995 23:30:16 -0500
Subject: Support

Date sent:  8-SEP-1995 23:24:21

Thanks to everyone who mailed support this afternoon, and for any
further messages that may come in (no, that's not asking for more:))
I appreciate people going out of their way to let me know that the
opinion I got today was not held by everyone, nor was the way it was
handled appreciated. I decided to post this hear for two reasons. First,
I think I missed a few thank yous this afternoon, and wanted to make sure
everyone knew I appreciated it. The second is more important. A response
I got this evening said "I hope this doesn't degenerate into a flame
war." I agree. I think most people in here (and maybe all) have a degree
of common sense, but I'm going to post this anyhow. Please, no flaming
in response in public. None of us need it, including Svetlana. I am NOT
defending her actions, but anything nasty done in return will only sink
you to her level. So far, I've seen rational responses, but I really
hope it stays that way. Privately, you may sink as low as you like with
anyone for any issue we discuss here for all I care. :)

There, that's it, everyone. Thanks again, and, if anyone is interested,
a preview taking at look at the total picture (ie different countries)
will be available after worlds. If ya wanna see it, and I get enough
requests, I will post it on the list.


Date:    Fri, 8 Sep 1995 23:37:57 -0500
From:    ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.ED
Subject: Vault values

Date sent:  8-SEP-1995 23:34:05

You know, I was thinking about this the other day, and I decided to
post it here, so that I could get some commentary on it. Most of the
vaults being performed are still from the Yurchenko family, mostly,
I think, because it is so hard to get a 10.0 start value vault from
the handspring family. The new code of points really should be a
bit revised. While I agree that the code separates the tucked and
piked vaults well, it is still allowing for no 10.0 value except a
handspring front-full and a handspring layout back (sorry not sure of
terminology there, one girl from Kazikstan does it). Why not value the
vaults at 9.7, hand spring front tuck, 9.8, handspring front pike,
9.9, handpsring front tuck half, and 10.0, handspring front pike
half, along with the two above. i think it would allow for a greater
variety in vaulting styles, and still force gymnasts to upgrade to
more difficult vaults.


Date:    Sat, 9 Sep 1995 00:09:45 -18521200
Subject: Re: Lisa Moro on 'Today'

        Thanks for the piece on the
Lisa Moro interview, but what is a
"blue budgie"?



Date:    Sat, 9 Sep 1995 02:02:25 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: floor ex's

Does anyone know of any good, reasonably priced floor ex systems for sale?

Thanks in advance.


Date:    Sat, 9 Sep 1995 10:46:34 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: USA World Team Trials: Comments on Women's Compulsories

1995 World Team Trials
Frank Erwin Center, UT campus
Austin, TX
8 September 1995

Women's Compulsories

The depth of the USA women's program simply can't be ignored. The
women's compulsory meet was really a treat, and this was without some
of the USA's best gymnasts: Amanda Borden (Cincinnati) has an injured
toe; Kristy Powell (CO Aerials) has a sprained ankle; Heather Brink
(Dynamo) sublexed her toe (or something like that); and Jaycie Phelps
(Cincinnati) had a sore knee.  In addition, Doni Thompson (CO Aerials)
was a slight question mark before the meet as her back is quite
sore. (Thompson was able to co mpete.) Despite the absence of these
strong gymnasts, the level of competition did not suffer in any way.


I don't think it's really possible to pick the best vault.  Moceanu
received the top score (9.9) but her distance was definitely
lacking. With more distance, however, I would not have been surprised
to see a ten.  She gets great height and her pike is very clearly
creased. The sudden way she popped open to a layout is kind of
interesting, almost like someone shocked her by holding an ice bag to
the small of her back.  (Trust me, that's the best way I can describe

Strug was next on the vault list with a 9.85.  Her vault was strong
but her legs were significantly apart on the layout, and she really
had to fight the landing, digging her toes into the mat (no step).
Miller and Dawes received 9.825 and 9.80 respectively, both clearly
not being deducted for lack of pike. The compulsory vault is a piked
Tsukahara, and as I understand it, a gymnast is supposed to achieve a
minimum of 90 degrees in the pike position. Miller also had a small
scoot backwards on her landing.

All of the vaults were really quite good generally speaking, as you
can see by the scores:

1. Moceanu    9.900
2. Strug      9.850
3. Miller     9.825
4. Dawes      9.800
5. Chow       9.775
6. Flammer    9.612
6. Arnold     9.612
8. Pickens    9.600
9. Kulikowski 9.525
10. Teft      9.500
11. Bhardwaj  9.487
11. Tomasek   9.487
13. Thompson  9.425
14. Ingram    9.387

Uneven Bars

Miller dominated the bars compulsory with a very smooth routine.  The
handstands were sometimes a tad short, but that was only so readily
apparent because the rest of the routine was so good.  Her straddle
back to low was easily landed in a completely vertical handstand,
however.  Chow's straddle back was also sweet, as was her Hecht to the
high bar.  Some of the best handstands overall came from Doni Thompson
and Mary Beth Arnold. Arnold's positions throughout the routine were
very exact.  Moceanu's score I considered to be a little high,
considering that her dismount resulted in a hop and a step, and her
feet were flexed on her Hecht (but pointed throughout the rest of the
routine).  She did hit several handstand positions, however.

Bars was the low point of the night for Katie Teft, who came off right
at the beginning, and for Flammer, who missed her Hecht to high.

I really liked how the Cypress girls (Pickens and Flammer) flaired the
dismount (toe-on front with 1/2 twist out) by throwing out their arms
to the side before landing.

1. Miller     9.812
2. Chow       9.712
3. Dawes      9.687
3. Moceanu    9.687
5. Arnold     9.675
6. Thompson   9.650
7. Pickens    9.512
8. Strug      9.475
9. Kulikowski 9.450
10. Ingram    9.325
11. Tomasek   9.275
12. Bhardwaj  9.237
13. Flammer   8.987
14. Teft      8.862

Balance Beam

Beam was perhaps the most interesting event of the night for two
reasons. One, Moceanu's routine was outstanding, and since it was the
last routine of the night, everyone saw it. One judge (Judy Schalk)
even gave her a ten. I don't think there was even a slight bobble in
the entire routine.  The other notable item about the beam competition
is the cartwheel -- almost everyone is trying to do it "the Karolyi
way", with leaving the second leg raised at the end of the cartwheel.
No one even came close to Moceanu, however, as her free leg was held
higher, longer, and without a quiver. Very few of the others could
even manage to hold their free leg above hip level, and the ones who
did immediately lowered the free leg.  (An interesting side note, by
the way, about the men's competition: Mark Booth of Stanford does his
floor ex compulsory cartwheels in the same way, by holding the free
leg up for a second.)

Also, Miller introduced a new stylization to the cartwheel -- or at
least I had not noticed it before.  Whoever knew that some many points
of a cartwheel could be highlighted?  Certainly not me.  She began by
raising her left leg high, on releve (which everyone does), but then
put her left leg down, moved into an arabesque position with her right
leg directly behind her, then reached out with her arms and went into
the cartwheel, and then ended with her left leg raised (briefly).

The beam mount is a thief vault, which is supposed to resemble a thief
leaping over a gate in his escape (or something colorful like that).
The gymnast runs to the beam and mounts by jumping almost over the
beam like a hurdler.  Almost all gymnasts go through this motion
directly to a back support on beam (body straight up and down, hands
behind you on the beam, arms straight).  Amy Chow was different
because she first brought her legs up to a V-seat position and then
lowered to a front support.  I was told once that this is how the
mount is supposed to be done, but she is the first person that I have
ever seen actually do it that way.

Other noticeable items on beam were Strug's Valdez pass across the
beam, which really flowed well. Unfortunately her leaps were very
conservative.  Fellow Colorado Aerial Kulikowski had a really smooth
beam routine for her best score of her refreshingly consistent night.

1. Moceanu    9.900
2. Miller     9.775
3. Kulikowski 9.662
4. Dawes      9.575
4. Strug      9.575
6. Thompson   9.512
7. Chow       9.475
8. Teft       9.387
9. Ingram     9.337
10. Tomasek   9.325
11. Arnold    9.250
12. Pickens   9.237
13. Bhardwaj  9.225
14. Flammer   9.150


If Miller's floor routine had been the last routine of the night, she
certainly would have received the same recognition and applause as
Moceanu did for her beam routine.  Miller's floor was outstanding, so
much so that in the press conference she was asked by a reporter, "Is
that the best floor routine you can do?" and she replied, "Well,
obviously I still have one tenth to go."  Everyone laughed; the
reporters are really liking Miller now. Her ability to look reporters
in the eye, and to give her own answer to their leading questions, is
perhaps some of the best PR that the women's program could ask for
right now.

Moceanu's floor was good but not as clean, I thought, as her routine
at USA Nationals. As a whole, the USA girls are really pretty clean
with this compulsory, and I don't notice nearly as much stylization
with this routine as with, say, the beam routine.  I did not see what
happened with Bhardwaj's routine (8.762) but for Pickens, I did see
her almost fall on the pirrouetting handstand in the corner. Other
than that, the routines were all similar, the only distinguishable
differences being in the clarity of the execution, which was fairly
well reflected in the scores, and the gymnast's ability to stay with
the music.

1. Miller     9.900
2. Moceanu    9.862
3. Strug      9.812
4. Dawes      9.700
5. Kulikowski 9.625
6. Teft       9.600
7. Ingram     9.575
8. Flammer    9.512
9. Thompson   9.475
10. Chow      9.462
11. Arnold    9.425
12. Tomasek   9.412
13. Pickens   9.037
14. Bhardwaj  8.762

 # # #


Date:    Sat, 9 Sep 1995 10:47:17 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: USA World Team Trials: Men's Compulsories event scores

1995 World Team Trials
Standings after Men's compulsories
Frank Erwin Center, UT campus
Austin, TX
8 September 1995

Event scores from compulsories

Floor Exercise
1. Bryan          9.450
2. Roethlisberger 9.425
3. Simons         9.400
3. Lynch          9.400
5. Hanks          9.375
6. McCain         9.350
7. Bagiu          9.325
8. Wilson         9.300
9. Moran          9.275
10. Stein         9.250
10. Macready      9.250
10. Yee           9.250
13. Kieffer       9.225
14. Umphrey       9.100
15. Booth         8.925
16. Waller        8.800

Pommel Horse
1. Bagiu          9.250
2. Stein          8.850
2. Yee            8.850
4. Roethlisberger 8.775
5. Kieffer        8.725
6. Wilson         8.625
6. Lynch          8.625
8. McCain         8.400
9. Waller         8.350
9. Booth          8.350
11. Bryan         8.175
12. Moran         8.125
13. Macready      8.100
14. Simons        7.825
15. Umphrey       7.250
15. Hanks         7.250

Still Rings
1. Simons         9.500
2. Roethlisberger 9.487
3. Wilson         9.375
4. Stein          9.225
5. Umphrey        9.150
5. McCain         9.150
7. Waller         9.125
8. Moran          9.025
8. Kieffer        9.025
10. Bryan         9.000
11. Bagiu         8.900
12. Lynch         8.875
13. Macready      8.850
14. Yee           8.800
15. Booth         8.550
16. Hanks         8.275

1. McCain         9.725
2. Booth          9.650
3. Bagiu          9.600
3. Wilson         9.600
5. Umphrey        9.575
5. Yee            9.575
7. Stein          9.562
8. Waller         9.525
9. Macready       9.500
9. Lynch          9.500
11. Hanks         9.475
12. Roethlisberger 9.425
13. Moran         9.400
13. Simons        9.400
15. Bryan         9.375
16. Kieffer       9.300

Parallel Bars
1. Macready       9.375
2. Bagiu          9.300
3. Roethlisberger 9.175
3. McCain         9.175
5. Waller         9.100
6. Umphrey        9.075
6. Simons         9.075
8. Booth          9.050
9. Stein          9.025
11. Yee           9.000
12. Wilson        8.975
13. Keiffer       8.925
13. Hanks         8.925
15. Bryan         8.750
16. Moran         8.550

High Bar
1. Bagiu          9.650
2. Macready       9.525
3. Roethlisberger 9.500
4. Wilson         9.425
5. Bryan          9.300
5. Simons         9.300
7. Lynch          9.275
8. Yee            9.175
8. Waller         9.175
10. Booth         9.075
11. Kieffer       9.050
11. Stein         9.050
11. Moran         9.050
14. Hanks         8.850
15. McCain        8.750
16. Umphrey       8.675

# # #


Date:    Sat, 9 Sep 1995 22:16:10 +0200
From:    ***@MICRONET.IT
Subject: Re: '95 Intl. Jr. Champs.

>1995 Intl. Junior Champs.
>August 30-31, 1995
>Yokohama, Japan
>1. Ferratti(?) (ITA) 9.55

The right name is: Massimiliano Ferretti (Ita), gold medalist in rings at
1994 European jr Ch in Prague.


Date:    Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:36:59 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Italy vs Russia (men), Italy vs Russia vs Spain (women)

I have brief scores from these two dual meets:

Italy vs. Russia

Porto San Giorgio (Italy) July 15-16th

1) Russia 562.825 (compulsories 278.325, optionals 284.500)

2) Italia A points 561.025 (280.800, 280.225)
3) Italia B points 542.100 (274.000, 228.100)

I only have the top two scores:

1.  9.875  by Yuri Chechi (Italia A) on Rings
2.  9.800 by Aleksei Nemov (Russia) on High Bar

Italy - Russia - Spain (Female)

Porto San Giorgio (Italy) August 11-12th

1 Russia  385.325  (compulsories 191.250,  optionals 194.075)
2 Spain   380.775  (189.025,  191.750)
3 Italy  376.150  (188.125, 188.025)


Date:    Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:02:44 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: USA World Team Trials: Men's Team

1995 World Team Trials
Standings after Men's optionals
Frank Erwin Center, UT campus
Austin, TX
9 September 1995

Scores are weighted 40% Nationals, 60% Trials.

At Trials, compulsories are weighted 60%,
and optionals are 40%.

1. John Roethlisberger (Minnesota),  112.618
2. Blaine Wilson (OSU),  110.888
3. Mihai Bagiu (Gold Cup),  110.499
4. Kip Simons (OSU),  109.644
5. Jair Lynch (Stanford),  109.404
6. Josh Stein (Stanford),  109.040
7. John Macready (USOTC),  108.340
8. Brian Yee (Minnesota),  108.260
9. Mark Booth (Stanford),  108.148
10. Rob Kieffer (Gold Cup),  108.120
11. Steve McCain (UCLA),  108.120
12. Casey Bryan (Oklahoma),  107.884
13. Chris Waller (UCLA),  107.850
14. Jarrod Hanks (Oklahoma),  107.744
15. Mike Moran (Daggett's Gold Medal),  107.638
16. Chainey Umphrey (UCLA),  89.518

Bill Roth scratched due to shoulder injury.

Umphrey only competed floor and rings today.  No reason was given for
his withdrawal from the other apparatus.

# # #


Date:    Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:40:02 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Phelps Article

In the Cincinnati Enquirer there was an article about Jaycie Phelps so
we are going to summarize it;

Here we go.....

Uses a peppy pice of floor music from a movie about the Olympics, The
Cutting Edge.
Has the Olympics on her mind.
They told her height and weight.
Her next competition is the World Team Trials.
They are upgrading her difficulty.
Jaycie and her mother, Cheryl, moved from Indianapolis, to Arizona, to
Cincinnati looking for a good coach. Her dad Jack and her brother,
Dennis, still live Indianapolis but the family tries to get together on
the weekends.
She practices 30-35 hours a week and has a strict diet.
Since she training on a very rigorous schedule she dropped out of her
high school classes this year (Sophomore) and has private classes.
"I'll miss school,"she said."But I'll still see my friends and go to
things like homecoming."
It says how Amanda a Jaycie support eachother and how Amanda is like a
mom, confident, and partner.
"I was so nervous for her during the all-around at Nationals," Borden
said. "But she did really well and I was proud of her. It makes it a
little easier to do all this because we share so much together."
It has a picture of Jaycie doing the splits and Mary Lee Tracy pulling
her arms back. It is really neat :)

Margi and Mardi :)


Date:    Sat, 9 Sep 1995 19:19:41 -24000
From:    ***@USAID.GOV
Subject: New Book

Something I thought might be of interest:

I was in a bookstore earlier today when my little sister showed me a new book
on gymnastics she found in the children's section.  The name of the book is
"The Young Gymnast---A Young Enthusiast's Guide to Gymnastics," and was
written by Joan Jackman, an international judge, with a forward by Shannon
Miller.  It seems to be aimed at young people who are either thinking about
or just started gymnastics;  contents include information on apparatus, basic
moves (rolls, balances, handstands, cartwheels, flic flacs, walkovers, etc.)
and also includes information on rhythmic gymnastics and sports acro.  As I
mentioned, it seems aimed at younger readers, but what induced me to buy the
book was the excellent photography.  All of the chapters include
demonstations by young gymnasts--girls AND boys--who apparently belong to a
club in Great Britain (where I suspect the book was originally published) and
are supplemented with color photos of international gymnasts taken by, among
others, Eileen Langsley.  A few of the well-known gymnast shown are Liukin,
Mo Huilan, Annika Reeder, Gina Gogean, and, of course, Shannon Miller.  It
retails for $15.95, and in my opinion would be an excellent gift for a
youngster who is just beginning to show an interest in gymnastics.  If anyone
wants further details just drop me an E-Mail.

Peace everyone


Date:    Sat, 9 Sep 1995 20:01:15 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Floor routines and choreography, NCAA difficiculty

In a message dated 95-09-07 16:34:38 EDT, msammons@IX.NETCOM.COM writes:

>Isn't it Dominique's new floor routine that she did in the US Champs?

I thought it was, and I really liked it, too!  :)


End of GYMN-L Digest - 8 Sep 1995 to 9 Sep 1995