GYMN-L Digest - 7 Aug 1995

There are 7 messages totalling 460 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Pitt petition
  3. Dagget's leg
  4. Milosovici and Gogean
  5. 94 Worlds signed posters info & order form
  6. 94 Worlds signed posters
  7. MLR


Date:    Mon, 7 Aug 1995 18:14:46 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Pitt petition

To Gymn and others who signed the Pitt petition:

As you remember, last May, we did a petition to support the University
of Pittsburgh men's gymnastics and tennis teams, which were both
suddenly dropped by the University.  I held off on mailing it because
Frank (Pitt head coach) informed me that they planned to raise the
issue at the beginning of the school year, and so that would be better
timing.  In the meantime, the petition has slowly be collecting
signatures.  I have about 200 signatures submitted via email, our WWW
pages, and the Stanford team banquet (thanks Andrew); and no doubt
hundreds more were collected at the JO Nationals in May, when the
petition was displayed at the ticket table.

I am posting this note because I will be mailing the petition on
Friday of this week to Frank.  For all Gymners who haven't signed it,
but would like to, please respond to me by Thursday 5pm EST with:

1. Name
2. Connection to gymnastics and or tennis
3. email and/or snail mail address.

While we have a good number of names already, we'd like as many as
possible!  The petition reads:

We, the undersigned, were amazed to hear of the University of
Pittsburgh's sudden decision to terminate the men's gymnastics and
men's tennis programs.  These teams have provided many
student-athletes with the opportunity for collegiate competition in
their chosen sport; they are outstanding representatives of your
institution.  We support the retention of these exemplary teams that
have brought accomplishment and positive image to the University of

Those who have already signed the petition will receive a note from me
shortly confirming that I have their signatures.



Date:    Mon, 7 Aug 1995 19:32:01 -0600

Triva Questions:


We can thank Brenda for the following questions:

1) Who was the gymnast who was robbed "twice" at the 1980 Olympics? First
she fell off the uneven bars which knocked her down to sixth place. Later
she was in a position to win the all-around again. Despite a half-hour of
arguing about the score, she had to settle for second place as a tie. Who
is this gymnast?

ANS: Nadia Comaneci (ROM)

2)What East German gymnast came close to winning a gold medal, i.e. second
all-around missing the gold by .5 points at the '77 World Cup, was second
in vaulting at the '79 Worlds, and tied for second on the bars at the '80
Olympics but never won a gold medal in competing.

ANS: Steffi Kraker (CDR)

3) What East German Gymnast was the "mistress of the uneven bars" but
won only one major all-around title when she competed from the late '70's
to the mid '80's

ANS: Maxi Gnauck (CDR)

4) The US nearly won an Olympic team medal in this Olympics but for a point
deduction. Name the Olympics and the type of deduction. Bonus: Name the
official who assessed the deduction.

ANS: 1988, Seoul; 0.5 for a gymnast on the podium during a UB routine; Ellen
Berger (GDR) who was also witness to the Nadia problems in 1980.

5) In the 1960 Olympics gymnastics was dominated by this country as it never
has been and probably never will be again. This country won every medal but
one. Name this country. Name the gymnast, country and the event and the medal
she won.


6) Why did Natalia Kot of Poland win the 1963 European Championships?

ANS: The Soviets led a boycott due to the fact that the GDR was not recognized
as a separate country at the meet. (i.e., no competition from the URS and TCH).

These came from Lori

7) This east german was second to Olga Mostepanova at the '84 alternate games
after she lost her grip after a release on bars.  She later came back to win
that event in finals with a perfect 20.0.

ANS: Maxi Gnauck (GDR)

8) She would Have made the '84 US olympic team but sprained an ankle while
vaulting and scratched from the meet.

ANS: Dianne Durham (USA)

9) This future Romanian star finished fourth AA behind three Soviets in the '84
jr Europeans after falling on both vaults.

ANS: Daniela Silivas (ROM)

10) Name the THREE Romanians that were forced to withdraw from the '77 European
Championships during the beam final.  They qualified in 1st, 2nd, and 7th.

ANS: Nadia Comaneci (1st) Teodora Ungureanu (2nd) and Marilean Neascu (7th)

Misc (me)

11)This gymnast qualified in first place for BB in '81, but went overtime
and didn't get a medal.

ANS: Julianne McNamara (USA)

12) When this gymnast missed both attempts at a HB release move on his final
event, he missed the 1988 US Olympic Team.

ANS: Dan Hayden (USA)

14) This gymnast should have won the 1983 Europeans, but fell off BB and had
to settle for 3rd.

Ecaterina "Cati" Szabo (ROM)

15) She settled for an Olympic silver because she landed a double flyway
on all fours in the team optionals.

Ecaterina Szabo (ROM)

16) Despite scoring a 10.0 in team optionals on floor, she didn't qualify for
the event finals since two team mates had a higher preliminary average than
her in '87.

ANS: Camelia Voinea (ROM)

17) She royaly missed her beam dismount and landed on her head and missed a
medal at the '78 Worlds in her last AA event.

ANS: Emelia Eberle (ROM)

18) A fall from UB caused this prelimary AA leader to land out of the
AA medals in '78.

ANS: Nadia Comaneci (ROM)

19) She hopped on a full-in off UB and went from 1st to 3rd AA '92.

ANS: Lavina Milosovic (ROM)

20) She was the compulsory  leader, a medal winner from '80, and the
heir apparent to the gymnastics world in '81, but couldn't compete
floor and didn't qualify for AA.

ANS: Maxi Gnauck (GDR)

21) He was the defending world AA and an Olympic Champion but injuried his ankle
a week prior to worlds and could not compete floor in the Worlds AA. He also
simply dismount rings, his last event, by just dropping off (no dismount.)

ANS: Alexander Ditian (URS, World AA Champ '79, Olympic AA Champ '80)

22) This american placed 6th in preliminaries but fell off BB in AA finals to
drop out of the top ten in '88.

ANS: Phoebe Mills (USA, Seoul '88)

23) This gymnast stepped out of bounds on floor (her first event) in her
second junior european champs, but battled back to win the AA bronze.

ANS: Aurelia Dobre (ROM, '87)

24) She could have finished with an AA medal, but she injured her leg on BB
during the team competition in '88 and had to withdraw from the meet.

Ans: Olga Strazheva (URS)

25) This gymnast, known for her incredible tumbling abilities, landed
her layout half in half out out of bounds and couldn't medal in Barcelona.

ANS: Oksana Chusovitna (EUN i.e. URS)

Hope these were fun.




Date:    Mon, 7 Aug 1995 17:38:57 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Dagget's leg

> I never actually read Kurt's book all the way through, but all the parts I
> read were about how difficult gymnastics is and how gymnasts need to train
> their bodies better than other athletes. Of course gymnastics is difficult
> and it takes many different types of virtuosity (strength, balance,
> coordination, endurance. agility, flexibility, etc.), but the way he put it
> made it sound like he felt superior to athletes in other sports. Also, as a
> caption to a picture of a young Kurt doing an L-seat on rings, it said that
> at the age of ten he could alreay hold an L-seat. Can't most ten-year-old
> gymnasts hold an L-seat?

Some can.

> I have a copy of Tim Daggett's book and I like it. It is a really disturbing
> story though when it gets into his injuries and especially his broken leg.

Tim's leg was broken at Rotterdam.  The heard the break 1/2 doz rows into the
audience.  It was a VERY NASTY break.  When you hear a break that far, you
can TELL how bad it is.
In hope of making the next olympic team, Tim volunteered to
be a guinea pig for several research projects into the speeding  of
healing broken bones.  You have likely heard of the experimental technique of
using  an electromegnetic field.  He was among the first benificiaries of the
method.  Alas he did not make the trials.

> I never knew a broken leg could be such hell. It kind of makes you scared to
> do gymnastics since he works so hard and constantly battles injury.

Unlike popular perception, mens gymn is NOT a wimp sport.
Its more dangerous than football.

Olympic decathlete Tom Waddel MD (Mexico City)
became an MD after his college roomate died in his arms in a
gymnastics accident.  As I recall the story, his roomate took a header
in an Rings accident.  It was a rather messy bloody accident and he died in
Toms arms.  Tom was an undeclared major.  In the memory of his roomate, he
switched over to premed and became a doctor.  He also gave up gymnastics for
track & field.  Some of you on the list may even know what else Dr Waddel
is famous for.  (Lets take that thread to private mail)

> P.S. I've started taking a new adult gymnastics class and it's such a blast.
> I wish it were every day.

Problems have kept me out of the gymn too long.
But here in San Jose' CA we have adult sessions 3 night a week.
Dave Peterson, you are a GOD !


Date:    Mon, 7 Aug 1995 17:51:12 -0700
From:    ***@GOODNET.COM
Subject: Milosovici and Gogean

   I realize that this is rather late but I have just been slow about asking.
Did anyone ever find out what Lavinia Milosovici said in her interview after
the Reese's meet? Also, does anyone know what song Gina Gogean's floor ex.
is choreographed to (the one she used in the Philadelphia Exhibition in April)?



Date:    Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:49:46 +1000
From:    ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: 94 Worlds signed posters info & order form

OK folks, I spoke to the president of the Queensland Gym Association
yesterday, and he was able to work out a cost for the posters worldwide.

They will cost $16 US for the first one, and $12 US for each one after
that, sent to the same address.  This price includes a packaging tube,
and air-mail postage to anywhere in the world (which takes a maximum of
about 7 days).

For T-shirts it is the same cost : $16 US for the first one, and $12 US
for each one after that, sent to the same address.  Again this includes
air-mail postage to anywhere in the world.  Be sure to include the
size(s) you want (16, 18, 20 or 22).

Make cheques (preferable bank) and money orders in US dollars
only, payable to the QGAI, and mail to:

PO BOX 757

Be sure to include your name, address and number of posters, and or
t-shirts you want.  Here is a sample order form you're welcome to print
and fill in.


P.S. If you have any further questions, write to the QGAI.

-------------------------cut here----------------------------------------

         "Worlds" Signed Poster & T-Shirt Order Form

Please send me ......... (number) Signed Poster/s

Please send me ......... (number) T-Shirts size/s .......................

Name ____________________________________________________________________

Address _________________________________________________________________




I enclose US $ ___________ (each poster or t-shirt is $16 for the first
and $12 for each additional sent to the same address)

Order without payment will NOT be processed.

Please attach your cheque, made payable to the QGAI, to this Order Form,
and send to:

PO BOX 757

-------------------------cut here----------------------------------------


Date:    Tue, 8 Aug 1995 12:01:55 +1000
From:    ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: 94 Worlds signed posters

> Sorry if I am bothering you but are these posters as good as they
> sound? Am I correct thinking that it is a picture of everybody with all
> of their autographs on it? Thanks!!!!!!!!

No, these posters have the event mascots 'Kate' & 'Katchev' on them,
with inset photos of the top 3 AA men and women from 93 Worlds.

"Kate" is on BB, and "Katchev" on Rings, they are cartoon Koalas designed
for Worlds.  (All of this was stated in my original post)

To answer a few other questions I've been getting:

Yes EVERY gymnast who competed at Worlds has signed the poster.  There
are no exceptions (so please, no more e-mails asking if so&so has signed it)

There was an original poster which was signed by every gymnast, then
after Worlds the QGAI printed 1000 of them.  They are identical to the

If you have any more questions, contact the QGAI.  If you can not afford
the air mail rates, then try writing to the QGAI asking if they can work
out a surface mail cost.



Date:    Tue, 8 Aug 1995 12:22:30 +1000
From:    ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: MLR

> I am not trying to be rude because you are allowed to have your own
> opinion but I believe that Mary Lou Retton won the gold fairly. THe
> Soviets weren't there but remember the Romanians were. That includes
> Ectaterina Szabo who had as much of a chance as anyone but had an error
> when it counted.

Lets be realistic - there were 11 gold medals handed out to women at 83
Worlds.  Only one of those medals went to a gymnast who competed in LA.
Quite simply, during the 80's when you take out the USSR, Bulgaria & East
Germany you're not left with much of a meet, and certainly not a
competition worthy of being called an Olympics.

> Sure Natalia Yurchenko might have been able to beat her but the point
> is that she didn't and she wasn't competing there. Let's say that Roza
> Galieva competed in the all around instead of Tatiana and Shannon won
> the gold medal, would you claim that Shannon didn't deserve it because
> her competition wasn't there?

Don't change the topic.  You're talking about a completely different
situation, that doesn't parrallel a boycott in any way, shape or form.
And I fail to see how a discussion about the 3 per country rule applies here.

> Let's stop playing "what if" games. Mary
> Lou deserved the gold.

Why did Mary Lou deserve the gold?  What did she do to earn it, that the
Soviets didn't?  She hardly beat the best in the World, which is what
every other gymnastics Olympic Champion has had to do!

> Many people thought that Svetlana Bog. would
> have won the gold medal (92)but since she messed up she didn't. Who
> knows. Yurchenko could have messed up too and mary Lou Retton would
> have still won the gold medal.

But the point is, Bog got to compete, Yurchenko, Mostepanova, Shushunova,
Stoyanova & Gnauck didn't.  So we'll never know how they wouldn've done,
and therefore can hardly say Retton would've beaten them.  Somehow, the
thought of all those gymnasts having an 'off' day, on the one day of the
quadrenium it matters most, is extreamily unrealistic.

> Mary Lou's gymnastics is great.

In your opinion.

> Remember Katie Dyson? People don't like to be critisized and
> have all of their faults and :what ifs" pointed out. Let's just *hope*
> Mary Lou isn't subscribed.

On the contrary, I hope Mary Lou is subscribed.  I would never write
anything in a public forum that I wouldn't have the guts to say to
someones face.  As for the comparison with Katie Dyson, this to me is a
very different issue.  MLR is not a child, she is not in need of
protecting, she is not a competitive gymnast.  She is a very public
figure, who has made a substantial amount of money, because of what
happened in LA.  Therefore IMO, there is no reason why I should not make
my feelings known (keep in mind I didn't start this debate, someone
asked for opinions on MLR & LA!)



End of GYMN-L Digest - 7 Aug 1995