GYMN-L Digest - 4 Mar 1996 to 5 Mar 1996

There are 18 messages totalling 549 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. NBC's coverage of the American Cup
  2. NBC SUCKS!!
  3. Gymnasts changing clothes.
  4. Worlds Schedule
  5. Daggett's Comments about ex-Soviets.
  6. Introduction and American Cup
  7. American cup...
  8. Donni Thompson
  9. usa/can requirements
 10. chusovitina, am. cup and other goodies
 11. Kim Zmeskal
 12. Statistics
 13. Doni Thompson
 15. NBC, Men's gymn, Men's Elite Canada
 16. vic lesch boy's gymnastics invitational
 17. IG complaint
 18. Sports heroes....


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:29:27 EST
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: NBC's coverage of the American Cup

While John Roethlisberger is one of my favorite gymnasts,
I have to agree that the American viewing public did not
need to see him (or Powell) change clothes at the expense
of covering a simultaneous gymnastics routine.  I wonder
how *they* felt about being televised in the process?

The fact that my local NBC affiliate cut away *twice* for
special weather updates ("Hey, here's our weather guy standing
in front of a radar map to tell you it's snowing outside, in
case you're too stupid/lazy/occupied to look out the
window!") without my missing a single routine as far as
I could tell indicates how much air time was *not*
filled with gymnastics.  Based on this, live is not the
way to go if they can't manage the time any better.

I'm very happy for both John R. and Kerri Strug, two too
often overshadowed US gymnasts.  It was also great to see
Boginskaya (a bit of deja vu in some of her routines,
but also new skills like that double layout off bars)
and Chusovitina (back-to-back opposite direction somies
on beam, and how on earth did she get less than 9.6
for her high-flying floor routine [neat little bit for
the ending]--some odd problem with start value?).
And although I would have like to have seen more of
the guys, we got more than we often do.



Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:46:27 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: NBC SUCKS!!

In a message dated 96-03-04 06:02:35 EST, you write:

>  Btw, has a Canadian ever been shown on TV in the American Cup?
>They ignored Umeh's FX much the same way in 1992, and she tied Zmeskal
>for the top score on that event!  I HATE NBC!!!!!! YOu'd think that Elfi
>Schlegel, as a Canadian would have some influence?!!?!?!?!?!?
Elfie Schlegal has NO influence as to what coverage is given to the gymnasts.
 Nor does Tim Daggett.  If that were true, we would have only seen Americans
and Canadians.  The decision is made by the producer in charge of that
particular broadcast.  Unfortunately Tousek was your pick to be seen, and the
producer didn't feel the same.

By the way, this was the AMERICAN CUP, broadcast by NBC (a National
Broadcasting Company of the US), and hosted by USA Gymnastics.  There is a
theme there....

Flame away,


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:28:06 -0600
Subject: Gymnasts changing clothes.

I don't think that seeing the male gymnasts or female gymnasts change clothes
on TV is that strange. Anyone who has been to a gymnastics meet can
tell you that this stuff goes on all the time on the side lines
and both gymnasts were on the sidelines. As for John, you'ld have seen more
skin on most public beachs, so I don't think it was that bad. My simple
comment was the fact that so many people have complained about watching
JOhn change because there was a routine in progress, but few people
(except me[!] and couple others) have noticed that we were forced to
watch Kritsy Powell change and no one else complained. I think that had
it been a male gymnast who was being interrupted then people might(?) not have
been that dissappointed. All I can say is that (1) NBC should stick with
what is going on the floor period. Perhaps they should have shown the
Canadian, but JOhn, by virtue of winning, deserved more than a few seconds
of routine time dedicated to himself. After all, if we were shown the lives
and times of two gymnast who weren't even there (Doni Thompson and Moceanu),
then maybe NBC was correct to at least let John say a few candid things on
Camera, since they didn't even interview him after like they did Bogi (and
she didn't even win) and Strug.

Enough said, let's move on people, but just THINK sometimes about how
incredibly BIASED television is against male gymnasts. Now wonder that it is
not as popular as female gymnastics.



Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:26:38 -0500
From:    ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Worlds Schedule

I don't think this has been posted before (sorry if it has):

Individual Apparatus Worlds, San Juan, PR

Saturday/Sunday 13/14 April   Podium Practice      3:00 p.m.
Monday          15 April      Opening Ceremonies   7:00 p.m.
                              Flag Ceremony
Tuesday         16 April      Men's Prelims        3:00-10:00 p.m.
Wednesday       17 April      Women's Prelims      3:00-10:00 p.m.
Thursday        18 April      Men's Semifinals     12:30-3:00 p.m.
                              Women's Semifinals   7:00-10:00 p.m.
Friday          19 April      M & W Finals         7:00 p.m.
Saturday        20 April      M & W Finals         6:00 p.m.
                              Closing Ceremonies   9:00 p.m.
Sunday          21 April      Gala                 7:00 p.m.

I have a few more details (prices, phone number, etc.) if anyone wants;
email me.



Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:32:22 -0600
Subject: Daggett's Comments about ex-Soviets.

When Tim commented about Belenky, I was happy. I thought it was just me. I
have noticed that legs aren't as glued together and everything isn't as
perfect as back in the Soviet days. Whew....I thought I was just seeing
things at times.



Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:20:12 +1000
From:    ***@REDASH.QUT.EDU.AU
Subject: Introduction and American Cup

Dear All,

My name is Natalie and I am a 26 year old ex-gymnast. I am
currently doing a Ph.D. in Human Movement at Queensland University of
Technology, Brisbane, Australia. (Are there any other Aussies out there?)
I have been subscribing to GYMN for a couple of weeks now and I have to
point out to all of you people who spend so much time griping about the
ON T.V.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The last time I got to see gymnastics on T.V. in this country was the
Comonwealth Games, (mid 1995). We don't even get to see our National
Championships. And what's more we see more top Americans than Australians,
if in fact we do get to see any gymnastics at all. The Dortmund Worlds
was not shown. A very small snippet on a National news network informed me
that Australia had qualified a women's team to Atlanta. Without my I.G.
magazine (and GYMN, of course), I would be completely starved of any
gymnastic news. So you should all think yourselves very lucky to be able to
turn on your T.V.s and watch gymnastics. I am extremely jealous. However,
I must agree that most television networks don't have a clue when it
comes to telecasting gymnastics and even when we do actually get some
coverage, I, like most of you, am always disappointed that they seem to
think people like to watch the gymnasts INBETWEEN their routines rather
than performing them!

So there. That's me introduced!



Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:10:24 EST
From:    ***@MMC.MARYMT.EDU
Subject: American cup...

I know that this is a little late but this is the first chance that I
had to get to my computer.

For starters, I was soooo dissapointed with NBC's coverage.  I really
liked the fact that they showed more men's events but really, did we
need to see John Rothlesburger changing his clothes for five minutes?
We were also priveledged enough to see one of the girls change out of
her leotard.  And did anyone see Kerri Strug's beam score?  I didn't.
And as much as I love Domenique, I didn't need to see her on t.v.
She wasn't the only one who should have been at the meet and wasn't.
This was Kerri's moment, not Domeniques.  Enough complaining.

I am really very happy that Kerri is looking more confident and has
become more aggressive, but one thing that really caught my attention
was her expression after she won.  She didn't look happy.  I saw more
relief in her face than anything.  When she was being interviewed at
the end the comentator had to ask her to smile again, and when she
did you could tell it wasn't genuine.  I just thought it was really

I also felt really bad after we heard about Donni Thompson being a
part of Tom Forster's dreams and how he lost her to diving.  Then
they talked about his new dream being Christy Powell.  After we saw
her floor routine, I felt terrible.  I was sad for both Christy and

Nikki =]
Excuse the spelling.


Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:48:17 +1300
From:    ***@VOYAGER.CO.NZ
Subject: Donni Thompson

Chris mentioned that he was glad NBC covered the Donni Thompson situation.
For all of us out of the US could he please ( or someone else) explain the
You guys have to remember that this is a world wide forum.


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:38:25 +0000
From:    ***@IGC.APC.ORG
Subject: usa/can requirements

Someone wrote a few days ago describing the skills required at
different levels in the Canadian competition system.  If I read
correctly (let me know if I didn't), gymnasts are prohibited from
competing certain categories of skills until they reach a sufficiently
high level.  Is this true as well in the USA--for example, are Level
6s prohibited from competing, say, E moves?  If not, should it be?

BTW, thanks to all for the news from the Am Cup... am kicking myself
for missing it.

--Mary Lynne


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:03:07 -0800
Subject: chusovitina, am. cup and other goodies

First off, can anyone out there confirm what it was that chusovitina
tumbled for her first floor pass?!? I saw the double layout part, i saw
the twist, and then i realized what i had just seen and my jaw just about
hit the floor. Was that really a laid out full-in?
By the way, just thought i'd say that i'm so glad bogi is still
around-she may not tumble so well, but her dance is so beautiful to
watch. I think good dance is, unfortunately, something that is too often
overlooked in this sport. Bogi has excellent dance _and_ original
choreography. (When was the last time you heard "original" and
"choreography" in the same sentence?)
On a completely different subject, i went the "best of broadway"
performance of "the phantom of the opera" here in seattle a couple nights
ago. I was just reading through the stagebill, and under Kitty Skillman
Hilsabeck's (she plays Meg Giry) bio it reads: "Her first training came
from 13 years of gymnastics competition  on international and collegiate
levels. Kitty was invited by the Swiss government to train the men's
Olympics gymnastics team in dance." Anyone out there know more about her?


Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 1996 15:07:13 -0500
From:    ***@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU
Subject: Re: Kim Zmeskal

Well, I hadn't heard this news and I do find it encouraging.  Some people
have been discounting Kim lately and I think it is too early to do so.
Yes, I would feel better if she were back competing by now but one thing
I will NEVER say is that Kim Zmeskal CANT do something.  Whether she
makes it all the way back or not, she will have made a statement about
the courage to pursue your dreams and about what it means to really love
this sport.  I'm still betting on a second Olympics for the Great Kim!

> At the Am Cup comp yesterday, Karolyi said that he's leaving the decision
> to compete at Trials up to Kim. She has been training everyday and her
> weaknesses as of now are the beam and bars. She says that she'll make her
> decision in mid-March as to whether or not she'll continue her comeback.
> I hope this isn't old news, I just read it this morning.
> Courtney
> :)


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:11:00 MST
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Statistics

Sorry, a few days late on this...

>*  Country        Subscribers
>*  -------        -----------
>*  Australia             19
>*  Austria                1
>*  Belgium                2
>*  Canada                26
>*  Chile                  1
>*  Finland                1
>*  France                 1
>*  Germany                4
>*  Great Britain         18
>*  Hungary                1
>*  Iceland                2
>*  Indonesia              1
>*  Israel                 1
>*  Italy                  2
>*  Japan                  1
>*  Malaysia               2
>*  Mexico                 1
>*  Netherlands            3
>*  New Zealand            4
>*  Norway                 2
>*  Portugal               1
>*  Slovenia               1
>*  South Africa           2
>*  Spain                  5
>*  Sweden                 5
>*  Ukraine                1
>*  USA                  656
>* Total number of users subscribed to the list:  766
>* Total number of countries represented:          27


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:12:40 -0800
From:    ***@EFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Doni Thompson

I know that there will probably be a lot of speculation about the reasons
behind Doni's retirement.  I was glad both IG and NBC covered it, seeing
as the Atlanta Invite commentators just glossed over it.

I guess the impression I got after reading the article and seeing the
interview was that perhaps Doni was disillusioned by what she saw at the
top level of her sport.  I think it's possible that she finally made it
to Worlds, which she probably thought would be a wonderful experience,
full of memories, and instead she saw coach-infighting, cold teammates
who could barely muster a "congratulations" for each other, and high
pressure to hit routines in a joyless pursuit of a world team medal.

Seeing as Doni was unlikely to make the top three among the US even if
she made the Olympic team, her Olympic (team) experience was bound to be
similar to this one, and I wouldn't blame her if she thought, "No thank
you, been there, done that."  If this was the case, where is the
satisfaction for her to continue grueling workouts?  To get another medal
and still feel like it wasn't enough?

Just one person's take on the situation.  Only Doni knows the real reason.



Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:31:23 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM

     As much as many of you are saying that the NBC coverage of the American
"REALLY SUCKS", I was unable to see it. If anyone out there would be so kind
as to make me a copy of the videotape, I would greatly appreciate it. I will
pay you for the tape, shipping, etc.
Thank you so much,


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:36:17 -0400
Subject: NBC, Men's gymn, Men's Elite Canada

(To Jeff and the Wives,)

I don't dispute the fact that there is fair balance between men's
and women's gymnastics in broadcasts by TV (U.S. in particular) networks.
I enjoy watching men's gymnastics too.  But, when you've got two hours
to show 10 apparatus with 16 competitors and commercials, it seems a
shame to waste air time on interviews with people not in the competition
and people who completed their routine 5 minutes ago.  A snappy pace
would improve content.

Showing as much of the international field as possible would help dispel
the apparently bad reputation that the American Cup has abroad.  NBC is
no doubt oblivious to this.  When we want to watch  American gymnasts,
we will watch your national championships, world trials, Olympic trials,
U.S. Olympic Festival, etc., etc. In their 2-hour coverage
of the 1995 Subway World Gymnastics Challenge, CBC showed the American
competitors -- including Alexis Brion who placed 12th (last of the
-- so it is possible to produce good value content.  Unfortunately, less
Americans get CBC than Canadians that get NBC.

Back to the men at American Cup, what happened to Kris Burley?  Obviously
he didn't make it to Finals.  By the looks of his scores, he must've fallen
off everything but vault!?  He scored (deservedly) over 55 on both days at
Elite Canada the weekend before.

Speaking of Elite Canada, for the 4 or 5 other fans of Canadian men out
there ;), my web page is now in somewhat of a presentable form.  Sorry,
most of my
photos of Alan Nolet turned out like Alan No-legs -- too blurry; though
some of them look kinda neat where you can see his torso clearly but his
legs are transparent.  BTW, this meet wasn't televised at all -- not even
community cable!

to see which men will be representing Canada in Puerto Rico!

(And the junior guys did not go shopping... Corel donated great bags of loot
including Corel Draw packages for the top junior and top 3 seniors.)




Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:32:34 EST
Subject: vic lesch boy's gymnastics invitational

26th Annual Vic Lesch Boy's Gymnastics Invitational
Held March 1, 1996 at Glenbard East High School, Lombard, Illinois

Background: Originated as a meet between the best gymnasts from District 87 and
88 schools a format was adopted in which one specialist and one all-around man
from each school work in each of the six events. Scoring is by placement points,
with the winner of an event receiving 11 points for 1st, 9 points for 2nd, 8
points for 3rd, and so on down to 1 point for 10th place.

The Vic Lesch Boy's Gym. Invit. It is the season opener at the end of the third
week of practice. The site of the event rotates among the participating schools
in Districts 87 and 88.

Participating Teams: Addison Trail, Glenbard East, Glenbard North, Glenbard
South, Glenbard West, Willowbrook, York

Team finals: 1st: Addison Trail 92.5 points; 2nd: Glenbard West 72 points; 3rd
Glenbard East 61 points; 4th Glenbard North; 5th Glenbard South

All-Around: 1st: Josh Levin of Glenbard West; 2nd: Scott Ladendorf of Glenbard

Name                   FX       PH     SR      V        PB      HB     Total
Josh Levin           8.75   9.75   9.10   8.65   9.35   7.65   53.25
Scott Ladendorf   8.45   4.60   8.65   8.70   7.95   8.95   47.30

Apparatus Top Scores:
Floor: Rodney Brooks of Addison Trail 9.25
Pommel Horse: Josh Levin of Glenbard West 9.75
Rings: Brendan O'Leary of Glenbard East 9.20
Vault: Rodney Brooks of Addison Trail 9.15
Parallel Bars: Josh Levin of Glenbard West 9.35
Hi-Bar: Scott Ladendorf of Glenbard North 8.95

Watch out for Josh Levin of Glenbard West. As a freshman last year he was fourth
at state and set a new state record on pommel horse. At this meet, on floor he
was the only one to do flairs and a Y-scale. On high bar he fell while
attempting a wrong-way endo-pirouette (I think I have that right); otherwise,
his score there would have been much higher.

Also watch out for Scott Ladendorf, a senior, who was away from gymnastics for
the past eight months. Just needs to work on pommel horse.

Also keep an eye out for Rodney Brooks of Addison Trail. He competed in only
three events, but took 1st in two of them.



Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:00:26 -0600
Subject: IG complaint

I just thought I would put this up here, and wonder how everyone else
felt about the situation. I called IG today to make an inquiry about
doing an article on an NCAA gymnastics team. This is not the first time
I've decided to try and freelance an article. This is, however, one of
the few times I've approached IG. What I was told was this: No, because
the magazine wants to focus on international events.

Now, all this is well and fine, and certainly, IG's focus on international
gymnaastics has expanded. However, when it comes right down to it, there
are only two major magazines in the US that service the sport, IG and
US Gymnastics. USA gymnastics aims to a younger crowd, and doesn't seem
to want to take anything as high-brow as an in-depth profile on a college
team. That leaves IG to pick up the slack, I think, in some ways.

Any commentary is welcome, but please no flames. I'm just curious to see
if others would like to see this type of collegiate coverage, and whether
anyone can think of a way to provide it.


Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:00:39 -0500
From:    ***@GROVE.IUP.EDU
Subject: Sports heroes....

I can't say that I blame young stars of sport for retiring or not hitting
routines when all we, the public do is sit and watch and analyze. It isn't for
me, or anyone else for that matter to say what another person can or can't do.
Perhaps we tend to forget that.



End of GYMN-L Digest - 4 Mar 1996 to 5 Mar 1996