GYMN-L Digest - 3 May 1996 to 4 May 1996

There are 12 messages totalling 553 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Host Country Music. (& choreography, etc.) (2)
  2. Host country Music (2)
  3. Mills
  4. Fwd: FW: VIRUS Warnings (2)
  5. Thanks for the help
  6. Regional States
  7. e-mail viruses
  8. Liu's Bar Routines and Intro
  9. giant full


Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 09:03:30 -0600
From:    ***@SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: Re: Host Country Music. (& choreography, etc.)

>>You may object to this obvious tyrick, but some gymnasts can pull it off.
>>Anyone remember Romi Kessler (SUI) dancing to west side story in 1984?

Yes, some *can* pull it off.  But only the ones that (can) do a
tasteful job of the whole package of a floor routine.  Meaning
(original) choreography, tumbling, a good cut of music,
style/passion/amplitude, and so on.

If it's the type of routine that is obviously meant to "get" the
crowds (ROM, Karolyi's, CHN) with cheesy music, and choreography
to match, then it's much different.  This not only applies to host
country music, but the cutesy style as well.

[IMHO, the cutesy style should be reserved for the little 10 year
olds, since they *are* cute.  I don't need to see a 15 or 16
year old prancing and flinging around to kiddy music ... it just
doesn't work;  no matter how small/tiny/cute they are.]

Looking back, some of the great Soviets used traditional/ethnic
music (Shushunova '88, Naimushina & Shaposhnikova at Moscow '80
and numerous others).  However, there was some meaning and passion
behind the routine and it appealed to and was appreciated by *any*
audience, not just the hometown crowd.  Now, I'm not saying *every*
Soviet floor routine was a work of genius, but they have by far had
the largest number of "memorable" routines.

On the other hand, some floor routines look like they were put
together in 5 minutes (ie - Milo in PUR).  Just as bad is the
transfer of choreography from one routine to another ... at least
when it doesn't fit the music (again Milo).

>>BTW: I'm TOO YOUNG to remember this (yeah right!) but when worlds
>>were held in Texas in 1979, alot of gymnasts used US directed music,
>>such as the 'Yellow Rose of Texas'.

If a gymnast can do it well (and in good taste) then fine.  But not
*every* gymnast on a team should have to do such a routine simply
because the choreographer/coach likes the style, or thinks it works.

The sad thing about floor routines these days ('90s) is that it seems
to be the coach's style/personality coming through and not the gymnast's.
Or in other words, the gymnast does not have an "individual" routine.
It's sad to say, but even some of the current ex-Soviet floor routines
come across this way.

I can only think of handful of current ('95/96) floor routines at the
world level that have *everything* ... good music, unique choreography,
style, passion, amplitude, tumbling.  A few that come to mind (that I've
seen) are Khorkina, Tousek, the French girls, Reeder, perhaps Prygunova
... and more ...

Of course, there are many good floor routines that often only have one
missing link and that's all it takes.  Many have the potential and
passion for a great routine, but are missing decent choreography.
Some are missing decent music.  Some are missing the passion.

Unfortunately, the thing I see lacking most these days from *a lot*
of kids is the passion for art/dance, etc, or even for gymnastics
at all.  And it's scary.  I don't know if it's coaches (that don't
see the importance of dance in gymnastics), a society thing (lack of
(or fear of?) "individuality"), or perhaps the development of
gymnastics towards a "science" instead of an art.

I guess choreography just isn't as important anymore as perfecting the
"technique" for front-fulls and Hristakievas....

Very much missing the Bulgarian women's team,



Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 10:27:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Host Country Music. (& choreography, etc.)

Just a few notables missing from the floor routines having everything,
at least in my opinion:

1) Dominique Dawes: That Fantasie Quick number is one of the best routines
of last year.

2) Kristy Powell: That is art...

3) Shannon Miller: The new number fits her...

Now, I'm not saying that every US routine is terrific (certainly,
Moceanu's stuff needs work, and even Strug's improvement doesn't mask
the fact she isn't entirely comfortable with dance), but I think these
three need notice, especially given the fact some people think the
US can't dance. They may not be the Russians, but...(BTW, I still have not
seen grosheva's new set to Frolova's music, but I remember the Goodwill
games set, wow, I liked that) more...

4) Yelena Grosheva: See reasons above... get my point.


Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 11:40:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Host country Music

Jeff Subject: Host Country Music)
Hungarian Whatever music that she's known for in 1991.  The only time I ever
saw her perform her West Side Story routine was in Paris for the '92 Worlds.
She went back to her old routine for Barcelona, but I don't know why.  I really
liked her WSS exercise.

But along those lines, I don't really think that WSS is "American" music in the
sense that we were talking about.  WSS isn't a big part of American folklore.
The "American" music that seems to be used in Romanian routines is Oh Susannah,
Star Spangled Banner, When Johnny Comes Marching Home, etc.  Music like that.

I liked Milo's slow part too, but it didn't last long enough for her to really
get into it.  I think if she had done the whole routine to one piece, even with
tempo changes, it would have been great.  But it seems to just be one excerpt
after another, and this is frustrating and busy.

It would be nice for the Romanians to use 1 or 2 pieces of music, even if it
was American, and blend it well.  But the massive collaging that they do just
is an insult to the talent they have.

Even gymnasts who aren't balletic in the traditional sense have worked well
with good music.  Dominique Dawes comes to mind.  I think she made one of the
best transitions from being cute in '92 and '93 to mature and expressive with
her Magdalena Spanish routine in '94.  I also think her folksy routine works
now; she really shows proficiency in interpreting different types of music.
Who would have though, after watching her routines in her early years, that she
would grow out of the cute and into the beautiful?



Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 11:55:05 -0400
From:    ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: Mills

I think I remember reading somewhere that after she made the senior
national team on platform that she stopped diving because she wanted to
get more involved with school and other activities.  I also haven't seen
her name in any of the national meet results lately.  Hilary Grivich has
been doing well though finishing 26th on one and 24th on three meter at
senior nationals.  She dives for Woodland Diving Team in Texas.

While I'm here, let me introduce myself.  My name is Denise Reitan and I
am a freshmen at the University of Maryland at College Park.  I did
gymnastics from age 10 til I grauduated high school.  When I was in 9th
grade, I took up diving as well and decided to pursue that in college
instead.  I was a level 8 when I stopped but still love gymnastics and
watch our college team whenever I can.



Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 12:16:55 -0400
From:    ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Fwd: FW: VIRUS Warnings

> ----------Gents: Thought I'd forward this message on as an FYI.
>Subject:  VIRUS Warnings
>>There is a computer virus that is being sent across the Internet. If
>>you receive an email message with the subject line "Good  Times", DO
>>NOT read the message, DELETE it immediately.  Please read the messages
>>below. Some miscreant is sending  email under the title "Good Times"
>>nationwide, if you get anything like this, DON'T DOWN LOAD THE FILE!
>>It  has a virus that rewrites your hard drive, obliterating anything
>>Please be careful and forward this mail to anyone you care about.
>>>                         WARNING!!!!!!!  INTERNET VIRUS
>>>  **
>>>  The FCC released a warning last Wednesday concerning a matter of
>>>  importance to any regular user  of the Internet. Apparently a new
>>>  computer virus has been engineered by a user of AMERICA ON LINE
>>>  unparalleled in its destructive capability. Other more well-known
>>>  such as "Stoned", "Airwolf" and "Michaelangelo" pale in comparison
>>>  prospects of this newest creation by a warped mentality. What makes
>>  virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the fact that no program needs
>>>  be exchanged for a new computer to be infected. It can be spread
>>>  the existing email systems of the Internet.
>>>  Once a Computer is infected, one of  several things can  happen. If
>>>  computer contains a hard drive, that  will most likely be
>>>  the  program is not stopped, the computer's processor will be
>>>  an nth-complexity infinite binary loop -which can severely damage
>>>  processor if left running that way too long.
>>>       Unfortunately, most novice computer users will not realize
>>>  happening until it is far too late. Luckily, there is one sure
>>>  detecting what is now known as the "Good Times" virus. It always
>>>  to new computers the same way in a text email message with the
>>>  line reading "Good Times". Avoiding infection is easy once the file
>>>  been received simply by NOT READING IT! The act of loading the file
>>>  the mail server's ASCII buffer causes the "Good Times" mainline
>>>  to initialize and execute.  The program is highly intelligent- it
>>>  send copies of itself to everyone whose email address is contained
>>>  receive-mail file or a sent-mail file, if it can find one. It will
>>>  proceed to trash the computer it is running on.  The bottom line
>there is
>>>  - if you receive a file with the subject line "Good Times", delete
>>>  immediately! Do not read it"  Rest assured that whoever's name was
>>>  "From" line was surely struck by the virus. Warn your friends and
>>>  local system users of this newest threat to the Internet! It could
>>>  them a lot of time and money.
>>>      Could you pass this along to your global mailing list as well?
>>>  George H. Bowers
>>>  Vice President for Information Systems University of Maryland
>>>  System 410-328-2579  (fax)410-328-0572
>>>******* Information on Virus 2
>>> Subject: FW: New and Dangerous Viruspp For your information ...
>>>     WARNING!!!!! Read the following and take note for those of you
>>>     access the web and ftp sites. . . BEWAREppp  Notify your friends
>>>     family and total strangers too!!!  We don't want to deal with
>>>     like this what-so-ever!!!
>>>     A NEW Trojan Horse Virus has emerged on the internet with the
>>>     PKZIP300.ZIP, so named as to give the impression that this file
>>>     new version of the PKZIP software used to "ZIP" (compress)
>>>     DO NOT DOWNLOAD this file under any circumstances!!! If you
>install or
>>>     expand this file, the virus WILL wipe your hard disk clean and
>>>     modems at 14.4 and higher. This is an extremely destructive
>>>     there is NOT yet a way of cleaning up this one.


Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 13:19:41 EDT
From:    ***@EOS.NCSU.EDU
Subject: Thanks for the help

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who emailed me with all the
info on which states are in which USAG Region.  It really helped.




Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 14:14:58 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Regional States

In a message dated 96-05-03 06:04:40 EDT, you write:

>was wondering if anyone could email a list of which states are in
>which USAG Region.  I know North Carolina is Region 8 with SC, TN, GA,
>FL, AL, MS, and LA.  But I'm not sure on the other Regions and what
>states are in them.
>Thanks in advance for any help,

Regiona 1 consists of the following states: Northern California, Southern
California, Nevada, Arizona, and Utah. California is split into two separate
states bacause the number of athletes is huge. Therefore they run separate
state meets. THey are two states as far as USAG is concerned.


Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 17:47:33 -0400
Subject: Re: e-mail viruses

>Chris, could you also please post this message to the forum regarding
>the post on email viruses. Thanks.
>Hello, someone posted a message concerning two viruses lurking out
>there on email: Good Times and Trojan Horse.
>I checked with my company's Information Systems support department
>and was told that the first virus report concerning Good Times is bogus.
>It is an old message that has been circulating for a while. However, if
>you want to be safe. . .just delete anything with Good Times in the
>The second virus, Trojan Horse, is a legitimate virus. This message was
>forwarded to all employees on email at my company.
>>For your information, the following appeared in the April 8th edition of
>>InformationWeek.  It is of particular interest to those individuals who
>>utilize the Internet.
>>"Microsoft's team of security experts recently confirmed the existence
>>of a Trojan horse virus that masquerades as an upgrade to the popular
>>PKZIP data compression utility from PKWare.
>>The file is being sent over the Internet as PKZIP300.ZIP.  The actual
>>shipping version of the compression utility is 2.04.
>>Experts warn not to download this file.  If you install or expand this file,
>>the virus will wipe out your hard disk and affect modems at 14.4 and
>>It's an extremely destructive virus and there's no way yet of eradicating
>Hope this helps.


Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 18:40:34 -0700
From:    ***@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: VIRUS Warnings

The Good Times virus has in the past, and obviously still continues to
be, a hoax. Viruses, to my knowledge, cannot be transmitted via e-mail.

        By the way, I was lucky enough to attend the Los Angeles '83
Pre-Olympic meet which Dianne Durham won, despite knee problems. This was
the last meet that Mary Lou Retton lost. Durham, from my memory, was very
clean and powerful powerful powerful... on vault, bars and floor she
scored a 9.9.
        I'll go look soon to see which old IG this meet was covered in. :)



Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 22:56:03 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Liu's Bar Routines and Intro

In response to Chris and Avril's questions about Liu's Bar Routines.

Liu Xuan is a very versatile gymnast. I have three Bar Routines on tape and
they are all different. I just received the one from San Juan.

Regarding the question of whether or not the Handstand full turn is done on
top of the Bar.  You need to look at the position the gymnast is in when she
completely finishes the turn.  If she is within 10 degrees the turn is
considered in the handstand position.
In both the routines Liu performed in Sabae and and in San Juan the handstand
full pirouette is not meet this criteria. (Her first 1/2 turn is certainly on
top of the bar but as she finishes the last half turn she is more than 10
degree from vertical).  This is my opinion from looking at the tape.  It was
not filmed at an ideal position.  You're looking head on rather than from the

Visa Routine--- Vault over low bar to hang on High Bar, Long Hang Kip, Cast
to Handstand, One are Giant Circle (C) to an immediate one arm Geinger (D),
long hang kip, cast to handstand, front giant swing in reverse grip to Pike
jaeger (E), drop glide,half turn, cast to handstand , clear hip to straddle
release to HB with reverse hecht action (B element #2.214) FALL,  long hang
kip, cast to handstand Giant full (this one comes the closest to being in but
it is questionable from angle presented on the tape) either C or D, immediate
Tkachev (D) long hang kip cast to handstand , giant to double layout Dismount
(E) This Start Value would be either a 9.9 or 9.8 depending upong whether the
Handstand full was considered with 10 degrees of vertical. I believe Comp II
rules were used but I would need to check on that.   I was the judging
assistant sitting at the far left hand side of the judging table.  If I had
known this would have been a topic on the Gymn Forum, I would have saved my

Event Finals From San Juan.
Vault over LB to HB, long hang kip, cast to handstand, giant full after,
giant full after (transition to one arm)C+C combination, one arm giant(C) to
one arm geinger(D), drop glide, half turn, glide kip to handstand, clear hip
to straddle up to HB (B), long hang kip, giant half turn in (C) to front
giant half turn (C) to immediate Tkachev (D)( C+C+D combination), long hang
kip, cast to handstand, giant to double layout dismount (E)  9.9 Start Value
if the giants were seen as after the vertical. Comp III rules

Sabae Finals
Vault over mount, long hang kip, cast to handstand, Giant circle, half turn
to eagle grip(C)(Higgins roll) front giant in reverse grip (D), to immediate
piked jaeger (E), (C+D+E combination for .3 in special connection bonus),
underswing 1/2 turn to the LB, kip cast to handstand, clear hip to straddle
up to high bar, long hang kip, cast to handstand, giant full after (C) to
immediate Tkachev (D) (C+D combination ). long hang kip, cast to
handstand,giant to double layout dismount (E)  10.0 Start Value using Comp
III rules.
Note----- This is much easier to write in shorthand!!

Quick Introduction
I am a Brevet judge and State Judging Director of Maryland. I have been
judging since 1978.   I come from a dance background having gone to the High
School of Performing Arts in New York City.  Does anybody remember the movie
"Fame"? That was my high school.  My friend and fellow Brevet Judge Shirley
Tranquill (former coach of Mary Lou Retton while she was in West Virginia)
likes to tell everyone that I graduated in 1903.  I can assure you that that
statement is untrue!!  I also ran my own pre-school gymnastics business for 6
years.  I do not have a favorite gymnast, however, I am continually amazed at
the skills our gymnasts are able to perform.

Many thanks to Rachele, George, Patrick, Sherwin and Grace to name just a few
who keep us posted on the latest events.



Date:    Fri, 3 May 1996 23:48:58 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Host country Music

We shouldn't forget that Gogean used a combination of Scotland the Brave and
the Irish Washerwoman in Birmingham.



Date:    Sat, 4 May 1996 07:40:00 PDT
From:    ***@AMDAHL.CO.ZA
Subject: giant full

Isn't a giant full a D element? If it is not in handstand is it a C?


End of GYMN-L Digest - 3 May 1996 to 4 May 1996