GYMN-L Digest - 1 Apr 1996

There are 22 messages totalling 613 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Reno challenge
  2. Kerry Huston
  3. Isabela Lacatus, Luisa Potocarrerro
  4. Intro and help
  5. trials tickets sold
  6. Comaneci dismount
  7. <No subject given>
  8. Running and Gymnastics
  9. Aerobics vs Gymnastics
 10. Campeonato de Espana de Clubes-Spanish Clubs Championship
 11. Aerobic training and gym training
 12. Gymn on TV
 13. UB mounts
 14. USAG Collegiate Championships
 15. gymnastics & areobics
 16. GYMN-L Digest - 1 Apr 1996
 18. Where's Monica Martin of ESP? // Desperately seeking BEX
 19. Dominique Moceanu (2)
 21. Kodak photos


Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 06:05:30 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Reno challenge

Last week, the Reno challenge was broadcasted on my sportschannedl in NJ.  It
was the competition where the women competed against the men.  In it, Amy
chow did this mount.  she fell, cause she was sick, but it was great.


Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:37:40 +1000
From:    ***@OZEMAIL.COM.AU
Subject: Kerry Huston

        I'd like to know where I could write to Kerry Huston.  As far as I
know he is training at Brown's Gymnastics in Houston.
Seeing that movies featuring gymnastics seem to be on the list a lot, I was
wondering if anyone out there has seen the movie "Fatal Games(I think that's
the name)".  It is a horror movie where athletes training towards the
Olympics are killed off one by one.  It's an okay movie and it's also good
for a laugh.  Any info regarding Kerry Huston would be well apreciated.
Until next time, Goodbye!


Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:37:45 +1000
From:    ***@OZEMAIL.COM.AU
Subject: Isabela Lacatus, Luisa Potocarrerro

Hi gymners.  Does anyone out there have any information on Romanian
gymnast Isabela Lacatus?  I only know that she competed at the Seiko
Grand Prix in Brisbane, Australia in 1991(I think).
Also, does anyone how I could contact Guatemala's Luisa Portocarrerro?
Till next time, take care and just chill!


Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 07:44:39 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Intro and help

I'm really glad I found gymn.  It is a really easy way to follow what's going
on in the sport.  Anyways, I'm a level 10 gymnast and bars is probably my
best event (at least it should be).  I haven't hit one routine in a meet this
whole season.  My next meet is regionals and I have to hit if I want to go to
nationals, which I'm dying to do.  In the gym my routine would score in the
high 9s, but when I compete, I fall.  At states this weekend, I missed both
of my releases (geinger and reverse hecht).  I had the bar and it seemed like
I just let go.  Why?  Please respond if you have any advice.

About the Reese's Cup, I was looking forward to seeing it, but it wasn't
aired in my area.  Our TV listing says that it will be on next Saturday
(April 6).  I'll see if I can find the time and station.



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:29:51 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: trials tickets sold

Hi all,

Just a quick note to the people who replied about the one set of Trials
tickets I had for sale - I did finally receive them in the mail and sell them
to the very first person who responded.  Thanks for the e-mails and sorry I
couldn't accomodate the couple of other people who were interested...there's
a chance I might have two men's compulsory tickets available now so I'll keep
the list posted if that comes up.



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:45:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Comaneci dismount

> The Comaneci dismount is a underswing from Front support on HB ( 1 foot or 2
> the code does not differentiate) half twist BACK salto.It is a B element.
> The front salto dismount is a "C"
> Avril Enslow

Which, from a scoring standpoint, is odd.  When I was competing,
both of these dismounts were popular, but the Comaneci was
considered much more difficult.  Of course, judges were less
Concerned with truly perfect landings back then (note
Comaneci's 10s with imperfect landings), so the forward
rotation wasn't as big a handicap.



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:58:38 -0500
Subject: <No subject given>

I just wanted to second Ann's comments about the Reese's Cup.
I' be delighted to watch a professional competition where
gymnastics artistry (amplitude, form, timing, originality
within limits, etc) was rewarded more highly than super-
difficulty, or at least highly enough to account for the
fact that a thirty year old gymnast probably won't be
doing double layouts.  But I want it to be real gymnastics,
not "entertainment gymnastics" based on costumes and
lighting.  Hollywood does that much better than gymnasts
ever will.



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:07:04 -0500
Subject: Running and Gymnastics

In response to the question about medium-distance running and

That's an interesting question, but I don't see why a gymnast
couldn't develop both distance-type endurance and short-burst
abilities.  Wouldn't that just make her a better overall athlete?
Perhaps she should be doing wind sprints and weight training
to develop that quick, springlike quality gymnasts need, but
I don't see why running should hurt her.

My concern would be about protecting her knees and hips.
One high-impact sport is bad enough.



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:45:05 -0800
From:    ***@SCE.COM
Subject: Aerobics vs Gymnastics

Greg Smith wrote about a level 9 gymnast that runs between 3-5 miles per
day and his concern about the running's affect on her gymnastics.  A few
months ago  I wrote to the Sportscience list asking about the affect of
aerobic training on gymnastics (strength and flexibility) and following is
a summary of the responses I received (I have move detailed espones if
anyone is interested):

>>Her coach is quite correct in saying that aerobic training can
>>seriously diminish one's strength and power, especially if one is a
>>fairly experienced sports competitor in activities such as
>>gymnastics.   It is a serious myth perpertrated by commercial fitness
>>groups and sports doctors that cardiovascular training by means of
>>long slow running etc is essential for overall health.  On the
>>contrary, one's daily activities as an ordinary human being require
>>something like 70% reliance on anaerobic fitness rather than aerobic
>>fitness.  Your daughter is in no danger by not doing traditional
>>aerobic training, although very small doses of it may assist in
>>recovery and capillarisation in the off season.
>>This topic and many others are discussed in depth in our textbook:
>>Siff MC & Verkhoshansky Y Supertraining
>>(details from Publisher at e-mail:
>>Myths like the need for tons of aerobic training are discussed in my
>>other book:
>>Facts & Fallacies Of Fitness  (same publisher)
>>THis text covers many of that kind of belief at a fiarly popular
>>level for the athlete, person in the street and the coach.
>>My response will be brief and will be in simple terms, but I hope that I can
>>help you.  Slow twitch muscle fibers are primarily responsible for one's
>>aerobic performance.  Fast twitch muscle fibers are responsible for one's
>>strength.  There also exists a fiber type which is intermediate and is
>>thought to be able to go either way.  If one primarily engages in activities
>>requiring strength (anaerobic) then the fibers will sway that way.  If one
>>does a lot of aerobic activity then these fibers will likely sway in that
>>This is likely the basis for the coaches comment:  to keep those intermediate
>>fibers working in favor of strength.  I personally believe, however, that in
>>you daughters case this slight difference would be negligable.  She would
>>likely perform better (slightly) as a result of aerobic activity because it
>>will likely slightly decrease her body fat which is dead weight as far as
>>gymnastics is concerned.
>>In other words, don't worry about it.  She would, however, probably benefit
>>from some plyometrics.  That is another topic.
>R.C. Tucker wrote
>>I think it will be interesting to see what the other people on this list say,
>>but for the most part your daughter's coach is correct. Gymnastic events are
>>short in duration and require a high degree of fast-twitch (F-T) muscle
>>training. Training aerobically, typically distance running, cycling, etc.,
>>does not train fast-twitch muscle, because the F-T never are called upon to
>>work. F-T muscles are only recruited when the demand of the exercise requires
>>powerful, intense work. There might be some discussion between the members of
>>this list about the need for aerobic training at the beginning of an annual
>>or general training cycle, but I doubt that many, or any, of the people on
>>this list will have a major disagreement with you coach. My thesis subject is
>>"Training Knowledge, Practices and Beliefs of High School Coaches". The
>>reason I chose the subject is the very question you raised. Most people have
>>beliefs about training that are unsubstantiate by research. I could not fully
>>answer the beliefs of coaches around me although I knew that the overwhelming
>>opinion of good sport training coaches was that aerobic training was not to
>>play more than a minor role in the development of the anaerobic athlete.  The
>>short duration, explosive athlete (0-10 seconds) does not even draw energy
>>from the aerobic system.
>>I am not a gymnastics coach, but vaulting, as an example, is an extremely
>>short duration activity that utilizes only the ATP-CP stored in the muscle.
>>Most gymnastic events last from 10-40 sec's, (right?), with floor ex going
>>longer (1-2 min?). These activities do not utilize energy gained from aerobic
>>sources either. These activities call upon the Lactic Acid system. The
>>aerobic system is the primary energy source for events of duration between 2
>>minutes and 2-3 hours. Most of this information came from Tudor Bompa, (1990)
>>Theory and Methodology of Training: The Key to Athletic Success,
>>Kendall-Hunt, Dubuque, IA. (Tremendous source, and I beleive that Dr. Bompa
>>had a great deal to do with the training of Romanian gymnasts.)
>>Again, according to Bompa also, there should be a base of aerobic activity
>>established in the beginning of an annual cycle, but this base can be held
>>with little difficulty through normal anaerobic training. As an example, we
>>see athletes improve significantly  in the mile, even though they have done
>>nothing more than intense Olympic weightlifting.


Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:23:42 +-200
From:    ***@JET.ES
Subject: Campeonato de Espana de Clubes-Spanish Clubs Championship

Resultados del Campeonato de Espana de Clubes
Results of the Spanish Club Championship

Vilanova y la Geltru (Barcelona), 30-03-96

        Club y gimnastas        C.Autonoma      Resultado
                                State           Final results

1.      RGC Covadonga           Asturias        144.175
        (L. Fernandez del Rio, V. Castro, F. Morillo, M. Riesgo, E. Gonzalez,
         I. Alvarez)

2.      Gimnastica Vilanova     Catalunya       136.050
        (E. Moya, L. Martinez, E. Toledo, A. Manzanares, A. Palou,
         P. Benegas)

3.      Xelska                  Baleares        132.125
        (D. Rodriguez, V. Cifre, M. Arenas, S. Mas, T. Lopez, L. Sanchez)

4.      Sylan Mataro            Catalunya       127.100
        (E. Padin, A. Planas, L. Vigata, C. Antonio)

5.      Urgatzi                 Euskadi         125.575
        (N. Sanzo, G. Otxoa, E. Mesanza, E. Borrajo)


Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:34:01 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Aerobic training and gym training

>   I am a coach and I have a level 9 gymnast that runs between 3-5 miles per
>day.  I know that gymnastics is an anaerobic sport but if a gymnast has a
>high level of endurance in aerobic activity could it have an impact on her
>anaerobic workout (gymnastics).  Can a person function at a high level of
>aerobic activity and then turn around and function at a high level of
>anerobic activity?

I read an article in Technique magazine recently that stated that aerobic
conditioning should be separated from strength and flexibility training in a
workout because aerobics will reduce the efficacy of both of the others.
That's why I do strength and aerobic training on different days at the
beginning of our workouts and flexibility at the end so there is a few hours
for their muscles to recover before the flexibility training. Personally, I
wouldn't try to micromanage a gymnast's outside training. My philosophy is
the better condition they are in the better.

Speaking of flexibility, I have a problem with a gymnast. He is currently a
class 6 boy and very talented. Unfortunately, he has absolutely NO flexibilty
at all. This has cost him about 1.0 from his all around score in each meet
because he can't get down in his pancake on floor X and he can't even come
close to a straddle L on PBars. I have tried bribery, blackmail, getting his
parents involved, I have even considered death threats<<joke>> recently. But
I simply cannot get the child to stretch. If anyone has any solution to this
problem I would be sincerely grateful.



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:46:25 EST
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Gymn on TV

This is culled from several sources, including the  GYMN calendar.
All times are Eastern.  Please check local listings.

April 20        BROADCAST: 1996 World Champs. Event Finals (W)/ ABC, 4:30 PM EDT
April 21        BROADCAST: Budget Rent-A-Car Invit. (MW)/ 1:00 PM EDT, CBS
April 27        BROADCAST: 1996 World Champs. Event Finals (M)/ ABC, 4:30 PM EDT
June   8        BROADCAST: U.S. Nat'l Champs. (MW)/ 4:00-6:00 PM EDT, NBC
June   9        BROADCAST: U.S. Nat'l Champs. (MW)/ 3:00-4:00 PM EDT, NBC
June  15        BROADCAST: 1996 Women's European Champs. AA (W)/ ABC, 4:30 PM
June  22        BROADCAST: 1996 Women's European Champs. EF (W)/ ABC, 4:30 PM
June  28        BROADCAST: U.S. Olympic Trials (Rhythmic) 7:30-9p.m. ESPN
June  28        BROADCAST: U.S. Olympic Trials (Rhythmic) 11:30-1 a.m.. ESPN2
June  29        BROADCAST: U.S. Olympic Trials (M)/ 4:00-6:00 PM EDT, NBC
June  30        BROADCAST: U.S. Olympic Trials (W)/ 2:00-3:00 PM, NBC
 /*note--two */
June  30        BROADCAST: U.S. Olympic Trials (W)/ 7:00-9:00 PM, NBC /*
 separate programs */

also of possible interest (the time is a bit suspect, though :-)):

June  23        BROADCAST: U.S. Olympic Trials (diving) 2:00-6:00[!] p.m. NBC



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:43:35 -0600
From:    ***@SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: Re: UB mounts

A few notes:

Michelle Goodwin did the RO arabian (piked) to sit on LB (bounced
to catch HB)

Olesya Dudnik did the RO arabian (tucked) to immediate catch HB

Olga Strazheva performed a true RO "back dive" to LB ... in
other words, a RO back-handspring to handstand (into glide) on LB

Strazheva (and Natalia Frolova) also performed a straddle front somi
over LB to the HB.

Kim Kelly performed RO back tuck over LB to glide.  This was earlier
performed some of the East Germans (Jentsch '87, Thuemmler '88, more?)

Gurova's RO full over LB to glide was also done by Priakhina.

If I recall correctly, Amy Chow's UB mount in Paris was as follows:
Running towards the LB, jump to handstand (reverse grip), immediate
Endo full, Endo half, Stalder-Shaposhnikova with a half...



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:37:33 UTC-0800
From:    ***@CS.UBC.CA
Subject: USAG Collegiate Championships

Does anyone know the scedual for the USAG Collegiate Championships
As in What time the Pre-lims, Team and Finals are for both Men and Women are.



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:49:24 -0500
Subject: gymnastics & areobics

Greg S inquired about doing a lot of aerobic work along with higher
levels of gymnastic competition.  First off, having a strong aerobic
system is very valuable to gymn as it aids in recovery of the anaerobic
lactic system (fight fatigue), allowing for more work to be accomplished
in a practice session..  What we have are three energy systems: Anaerobic
anaerobic lactic, and aerobic.  What we want to accomplish through
training is to lengthen the anaerobic alactic system's ability to
maintain power output which is approximately the first 10 - 15 seconds
and results in no fatigue (a very good thing).  We want to shorten the
next energy system which kicks in, the anaerobic lactic, because it is
what causes all the burning sensation at the muscle.  If we can train the
aerobic system to be efficient it will start sooner (hopefully within a
minute) of beginning an activity and it will burn fat, the prefered
energy source due to the large amount of ATP (basic form of energy) it
can produce.  So in gymnastics what we should be doing is starting our
aerobic training early in the season, long before competition and slowly
moving from continuous aerobic training, like running, towards interval
training (continous training at high output with pause periods with light
activity at a ratio of 1:1 or 2:1).  Aerobic gains can be maintained
through the year with 2-3 aerobic sessions per week.  Anaerobic lactic
and alactic should be trained through out the year but lactic should be
eased off a prior to competition while alactic should be increased in the
weeks prior to competition. By doing this we'll see higher leaps,
rebounds, and other outputs of power.

I would suggest to Greg that you look into getting some information on
interval training and try having your athlete do more of that at the
appropriate time of year.  We tend to stray away from general aerobic
activity closer to competition because of the time we want to spend
working routines.  As long the athlete's diet supports all the activity
it should be O.K.



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:39:46 PST
From:    ***@CISCO.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 1 Apr 1996

    I am a coach and I have a level 9 gymnast that runs between 3-5 miles
    per day.  I know that gymnastics is an anaerobic sport but if a gymnast
    has a high level of endurance in aerobic activity could it have an
    impact on her anaerobic workout (gymnastics).  Can a person function at
    a high level of aerobic activity and then turn around and function at a
    high level of anerobic activity?

I don't see why not.  Isn't that pretty much what they call "cross
training"?  In College, we had a set of twins on our team that were very
aerobically fit (ran 10-15 miles/day, did 400 crunches a day, etc.)
Skinny guys - looked like runners.  It didn't magically make them great
gymnasts, but it didn't seem to wear them out either.  The rest of us
should have run more - we could have used it!

You have a gymnast that actually enjoys (part of) that most dreaded part
of athletics: "conditioning".  Enjoy it!



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:59:24 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM

RE:"Did Dominiqu Quit school?"

Now, I saw Dominique in person only 2 weeks ago at an exhibition.  TIRED is
not a word I'd use to desribe this 4'5 bunlde of energy;   Not just in her
gymnastics, but her appearance, attitude and pride in herself, her coach and
US gymnastics.

During a question and answer period, Dominique herself, not Bela, Dom
addressed the issue of her "quitting school".  Dominique Moceanu is currenly
taking correspondence classes, instead of attending a regular and full school
day.  I don't understand why you find this so unusual.  Dominique's main goal
right now, as well as the goal of a dozen or more gymnasts is to not only
become "one of the six" but also to head in to Atlanta with confidence,
maturity, experience and lead herself and her US team to gold.  How might
this be possible, with a full day of school.
There is no way to defend abusive behavior, and although we may not see a
side to Bela that everyone says is there, look at the facts, Bela Karolyi has
produced 7 Olympic Champions, 15 World Champions (hope  I got that right,)
and a dozen or so US National Champions.  He creates champions. Mary Lou said
"You don't here any complaining from the winners".  Gymnastics is an
extremely contraversial sport, and with the controversy however, comes
excitement, some of these controversies make gymnastics, the most watched
olympic sports.  Yes young Dominique and other gymnasts are young, and yes
they are female.  But just like anything else it's their choice.  Why are you
trying to make decisions for them?   They're making the choice to honor our
country in the Olympic Games.  We should honor and repect them for the pride
they give us, not question them.  Child abuse is one thing, but if you're
warn out, you can get out.  Two quotes that stick in my mind are Shannon
Miller's "I do gymnastics because it's fun, and if it wasn't fun I wouldn't
do it, I'd do something else.  But I think Kerri Strug said it best.
  "People were concerned because we're younger or whatever, but then again
it's our choice to do it."
So go ahead, and make your arguments.  Child abuse of any kind is wrong.  But
these girls, do have parents, who are there to investigate this sort of
theing, and these "little girls"  (and 14 year olds do have a human mind) do
gymnastics because they love it.  And the final word should rest with them.


Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:27:17 -0500
From:    ***@HICOM.NET
Subject: Where's Monica Martin of ESP? // Desperately seeking BEX

Howdy, GYMNers:

I didn't see Monica Martin of Spain at Sabae, or at all recently for that
matter.  The only Spanish woman I have seen making any real waves in
international competition is Juarez (or Suarez--did I remember it incorrectly?).

Does anyone know if Monica Martin is still competing?  I liked her strong style,
though I never got the chance to see very much of her in action...Come on,
European GYMNers, can you help with this one?

By the way, BEX, if you are out there, I need you to e-mail me so I can get your
Fantasy Gymn picks, and your correct e-mail address.

Muchas gracias!


Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:25:51 -0800
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Dominique Moceanu

                            I don't think that all of this attention on
Dom is very wise. While she is a very good competitor w/a lot of great
potential I think that it will be a stretch to name her the favorite in
Atlanta. What about all of the other girls like Strug, Dawes, Miller,
Mo, Milo? They are all far more expierienced and for all of them but
Mo, it will be their 2nd Olymics so they know what to expect. If Miller
hadn't fallen off the beam at 95 Nationals and won, would everyone
still be making this much of a fuss?
                        Don't get me wrong, I love Dom, I think that
she's awesome but I think that the expectations may be a bit too heavy
apon her shoulders. The Kodack commericial is a perfect example of
that. To compare her to all of those others Olympians isn't fair. I
hope that she does well in Atlanta but we have to remember that she IS
only a little girl....

                                            Comment if you wish.



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:04:15 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM

In response to Elena Sazonenkova not winning a major title, I know she won
the World University Games All-Around in 1991 (I think- it was the year it
was in Great Britain- Natalia Lascenova was competing for the Soviet Union
with her.). But I don't know if that's considered "major."

Also, to respond to the stuff about Dominique Moceanu, I also think that she
is being built up too much, and for her sake, I hope it is not too much for
her. But I also don't think it is as justified as the hype that was built up
for Kin Zmeskal. Before the Olympics in '92, Kim was World All-Around
champion and won two individual titles in Paris. There was a reason for her
to be a favorite. I'm not diminishing what Dominique has done, but she just
hasn't accomplished as much, and we all know that reputation counts,
especially in big meets like the Olympics.



Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:20:48 -0600
Subject: Re: Dominique Moceanu

I know that we (mostly) all think that the media should all lay
off Moceanu, but I wonder if its possible. After all, the LAST TIME the
Olympics came around and Bela didn't have a favorite (of somebodies) in ]
his stable was 1972!!! Will it EVER END? I doubt it. And I really think
Moceanu LIKES all the attention. That is what I've gathered by seeing her on


P.S. This crap about Moceanu not competing in Worlds because Kim did
it and was "worn out" by all the big meets is crap. Gutsu did the big
meets prior to Barcelona and she survived, as did alot of other gymnasts
out there. Moceanue isn't competing because she coming off an injury. Anyone
ELSE notice that she's had those ankles taped alot when she competes. (And
not just recently). I think Bela just knows that he has to hold her back and
try for Atlanta, not Worlds.


Date:    Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:23:20 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Kodak photos

     Some level 9 and 10 gymnasts and coaches. from my gym are in some Kodak
promotional photos (I'm not exactly sure what they're promoting) that are
supposed to be used worldwide.  There's one of a girl sort of lying on the
floor with her legs curved over her head and a baby is sitting below her
feet.  Another is a beach scene with a girl doing a ring leap, and two are of
some coaches(who were gymnasts) in some kind of flexible-type pose.
                            Dawn :)


End of GYMN-L Digest - 1 Apr 1996 - Special issue