gymn Digest                 Tue, 30 Aug 94       Volume 3 : Issue   8

Today's Topics:
                 4 Men Petition to World Team Trials.
                       America's Best (2 msgs)
                         america's best/Stoby
                          Bela and Training
          CG Women's Team Competition Full Results (2 msgs)
                          Complaining to NBC
                           Kerri & Larissa
                         More Men's Comments
         Nationals, Commonwealth comments, my new address (!)
                     Nationals keepsakes (3 msgs)
                          Nationals thoughts
                        NBC coverage (3 msgs)
                        No men on NBC (2 msgs)
                    Re[2]: Susan's Men's Comments
                             Summer Reid?
                        Susan's Men's Comments
                             Tanya Maiers
                             The "Miller"
                       This-n-that on Nationals
                       US Nat'ls on TV (3 msgs)

This is a digest of the mailing list. 


Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 12:23:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***
Subject: 4 Men Petition to World Team Trials.

> Bulls**t!!!
> 1)  I doubt there's anything the US Women could learn from the US Men at this
> point (except maybe how to pout)

I case you all havent noticed, I took EXTREME umbrage at that remark !


Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 14:34:43 EDT
From: ***
Subject: America's Best

>Here is my ignorance - what, when and where is "America's Best 3"  - I have
never heard of it here on the east coast.<

For the past three years a company (Laurel Canyon I think) has put together a
video with NBC of the highlights of the Nationals Championships called
America's Best. They show highlights from all sessions (even those not
televised) and try to do something a little different since they realize that
most buyers have already seen the regular coverage. I think that this year it
will be $19.95. Maryann and Tim will add voice over. I know there's an 800
number to order direct but I also know that I work at the Hall of Fame and we
sell the first two and will eventually sell the third if you're interested.
It's the same price but this way the non-profit Hall of Fame also makes some
cash (shameless plug <g>). For more info write to the International
 Gymnastics Hall of Fame (IGHOF) at 227 Brooks St. Oceanside, CA 92054 or
call at (619) 722-0606. If you enclose $3 I will you send you a complete
catalog of all our stuff. The $3 is refundable on the first order and every
purchase is 50% tax deductabile. If you have further questions you can e-mail

End of commercial (hope this didn't tick anyone off)



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 15:16:09 EDT
From: ***
Subject: America's Best

After Susan's shameless promotion, I think she should be flamed like all
Internet Advertisers <g>

Maybe the Gymn crowd should write to Laurel Canyon and tell them what to put
in the video so it's not too geeky.

I nominate Susan as ambassador to Laurel Canyon.

Is there a second????



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 13:17:26 -0700 (MST)
From: ***
Subject: america's best/Stoby

David writes

>I nominate Susan for Spokesman for Laurel Canyon
(the company that puts out America's Best)
because she gave out info on it and details on buying it from the IGHOF.

I hearby strike down your nomination.
Come on, don't act like she's from GymKin or Karoyli's Camps.  We're all
gym fans, and thus should all be Hall of Fame Fans.  They don't make
bootleg copies of the Laurel Canyon original or something. LC still is
selling videos.  So everybody don't get ticked off and flame Susan (or
myself :))  The IGHOF is not a fortune 500 company- they're a non-profit
organization. Give me a break...

Most Sinceredly Yours,



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 13:32:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***
Subject: Bela and Training

> David,
>    I know what you're feeling in regards to that, people are presented as
> icons and infallible all the time.  I was just lashing out at the opposite,
> alot of attacks on Bela were being posted and it seemed like no one was even
> recognizing that he shouldn't be blamed for everything or that he has done
> some super positive things.  I don't see him as infallible, but there are
> many aspects to him and what and he has accomplished what he has that I
> really do look up to.  Mike

If Bele was coaching guys, no one would be too upset about his style.
Since our sexist society expectr women to be treasted as glass dols to be put on
display, Bela's style get him in hot water.

Yo ! Bela !
How bout coachine some of us guy and get your butt outta hot water ?



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994  0:10:43 UTC-0700
From: ***
Subject: CG Women's Team Competition Full Results

(CG = Commonwealth Games)
(AUS = Australia, CAN = Canada, CYP = Cyprus, ENG = England, HKG = Hong Kong,
 MAS = Malaysia, NIR = Northern Ireland, NMB = Namibia, NZL = New Zealand,
 RSA = Republic of South Africa, SCO = Scotland, WAL = Wales)

'A' indicates that gymnast advances to Individual All-around competition (top
24 with a limit of 3 per country). 'R' indicates that the gymnast is a reserve
for the Individual All-around competition (I didn't get an official listing for
the advancement to the Individual All-around competition and there was a tie
for the second reserve spot.  I have no idea how they would have decided which
of the two gymnasts would compete if they needed to use the second reserve.)
'T' indicates a tie in placing.

   Name                 Country     Vault UBars Beam  Floor Total
1A  Stella Umeh         CAN   9.675 9.675 9.750 9.525 38.625
2A  Zita Lusack         ENG   9.650 9.425 9.575 9.475 38.125
3A  Jacqueline Brady    ENG   9.550 9.450 9.375 9.650 38.025
4A  Ruth Moniz          AUS   9.475 9.150 9.625 9.625 37.875
5A  Joanna Hughes AUS   9.325 9.550 9.575 9.250 37.700
6A  Karin Szymko  ENG   9.575 9.300 9.475 9.325 37.675
T7A Rebecca Stoyel      AUS   9.450 9.675 9.000 9.400 37.525
T7A Jaime Hill          CAN   9.425 9.550 9.075 9.475 37.525
T7  Annika Reeder ENG   9.475 9.025 9.300 9.725 37.525
10A Lisa Simes          CAN   9.500 8.700 9.625 9.500 37.325
11. Salli Wills         AUS   9.350 9.500 9.150 8.850 36.850
12A Sonia Lawrence      WAL   9.500 9.025 8.625 9.475 36.625
13A Bethan Powell WAL   8.725 9.100 8.925 9.175 35.925
14A Jo-Ann West         RSA   9.400 8.700 8.750 8.750 35.600
15A Rachel Vickery      NZL   9.275 8.900 8.575 8.825 35.575
16A Claire Hamer  WAL   8.650 8.575 8.900 9.400 35.525
17A Tanya Steenkamp     RSA   8.850 8.900 8.750 8.775 35.275
18A Sinead Lyons  SCO   9.000 7.950 8.925 9.350 35.225
19A*H. Oosthuizen RSA   9.300       8.425 8.600 8.875 35.200
20A Sarah Thompson      NZL   9.250 9.175 8.800 7.900 35.125
T21AWai Chi Lim         MAS   9.475 8.700 8.525 8.350 35.050
T21 Janine Mortimer     WAL   9.250 8.275 8.625 8.900 35.050
23. Ilse Roets          RSA   8.925 8.000 9.225 8.700 34.850
24A Andri Agathocleous  CYP   8.975 7.850 9.025 8.950 34.800
25A Fiona Pulman  NZL   9.225 8.700 8.275 8.550 34.750
26A Sonya Cairns  NIR   9.325 7.750 9.025 8.600 34.700
27. Sarah Joy           NZL   9.075 7.900 8.475 8.350 33.800
28A Jenny Dwyer         NIR   9.050 7.100 8.575 9.025 33.750
29A Nicola Helen Waite  HKG   9.325 7.350 8.200 8.650 33.525
30R Fiona Burgess NIR   9.050 6.650 8.525 8.900 33.125
T31RKa Li Wong          HKG   9.250 7.000 8.325 7.925 32.500
T31RFung Yin Wut  HKG   9.150 6.600 8.750 8.000 32.500
33. Tina-Anne Pooley    HKG   8.675 7.200 7.675 8.475 32.025
34. Heidi Kloppers      NMB   8.200 6.600 6.775 8.475 30.050
35. Jenny Timlin  NMB   8.500 6.100 6.825 7.775 29.200
36**Stacey Galloway     CAN   9.500 8.800 0.000 9.375 27.675
37. Yvonne Black SCO   0.000 7.200 0.000 0.000 7.200

* I can't find a first name for this gymnast either.  I forgot to ask for her
first name when I was in Victoria for the rhythmic competitions.

** Stacey Galloway was injured during the meet and did not compete on beam.

    Yee Cheng Ting from Malaysia did not compete. 

Team Scores

   Team                 Vault UBars Beam  Floor Total
1. England        28.775      28.175      28.425      28.850      114.225
2. Canada         28.675      28.025      28.450      28.500      113.650
3. Australia            28.275      28.725      28.350      28.275      113.625
4. Wales          27.475      26.700      26.450      28.050      108.675
5. South Africa         27.625      26.025      26.725      26.400      106.775
6. New Zealand          27.750      26.775      25.850      25.725      106.100
7. Northern Ireland     27.425      21.500      26.125      26.525      101.575
8. Hong Kong            27.725      21.550      25.275      25.125      99.675

   The rest of the countries did not have enough competitors to field teams.
Scotland had 2, Malaysia had 1, Cyprus had 1, and Namibia had 2.
   There were supposed to be gymnasts from Nigeria, India, Pakistan and
Zimbabwe but they weren't at the competition.



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 12:03:43 BST
From: ***
Subject: CG Women's Team Competition Full Results

In Karen's CG report:

> 19A*H. Oosthuizen     RSA   9.300       8.425 8.600 8.875 35.200
> * I can't find a first name for this gymnast either.  I forgot to ask for her
> first name when I was in Victoria for the rhythmic competitions.

I think the TV commentator here in the UK said her first name is 'Heidi'.

Thanks Karen for posting all these very complete results!



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 11:52:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***
Subject: Complaining to NBC

NBC is on the internet but I dont know the right address to complain to.
They are but I dont know the account to send mail to.
Ill probe around to see if I can get you all an address that we can flood
with critiques.

When they realize that there are over a hundred of us gymn folk on the internet
alone they will have to take us seriously.  Media has discovered that pissing
off internet folk is bad.  They are almost afraid of us because our presence on
the net implies that we are just as technical as they are.

When the statute of limitations runs out, Ill have to tell you about a fight
with a local PBS station that got ugly.  We actually took them off the air !


Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 17:15:35 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Juniors

> I have no idea about Kristy Powell, cept to tell you that alot of juniors
are coming on super strong and it wouldn't surprise me if she hit pretty well
and was still 8th.<

Krsti fell off beam in compos (I think that NBC even showed it). I'm not
totally sure about optionals since I don't think I saw all 4 of her sets but
I think that she was clean.

Kati Teft pulled the Planters tendon (muscle?) in the bottom of her foot the
day before Jr. compos which pretty much put her out of commison for the medal
anyway.  She did have a great moment where in the last rotation of the
optionals her tape broke on FX and she just kept right on going without the
music. Brave kid.

Dominque Moceanu looks about a billion times improved over last year. She's
tumbling a double layout on FX now and her double lay off bars was the best
of the meet. With the 60-40 weighted scores after compos she was already over
a point ahead of Doni so the beam fall in optionals didn't really effect her
standings and she came back real strong afterwards. Thank you Alexandrov!

Mary Beth Arnold kinda' came out of nowhere to upset people like Mina Kim and
Katie Teft (injury already mentioned). She was pretty clean but nothing
amazingly special. It is great to see a top Jr. not from a name gym though.



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 17:21:21 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Kerri & Larissa

> Does anyone know where Kerri is
training? I didn't recognize that gym at all<

Kerri trains at Gymnastics World owned by Jerry Hinkle though Geza Pozsar and
Artour Akopian are her main coaches. Larissa Fontaine has also recently lost
her coach (Leonard Isaacs) and has been training at GW with Kerri and Artour
for a while now.



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 12:41:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***
Subject: More Men's Comments

Some of us are "cable challenged".  Why pay $40 /mo when I never watch it ?
I am working on a job for General Electric building power plants at the moment
so I only saw a few bits & pieces of gymn this weekend on NBC.

Poor Scotty...

At his college meets, I used to see him almost flawless.
His vault landings stunk sure (Since I weight over 170 I can say that!)
Most of his stuff has been fairly clean.

I didnt see ANY guys this weekend, not even Tim with his toothspaced grin.

So whats happenening ?  SOunds like a weekend of wipeouts!  Are the guys
suddenly doing stuff far harder than the stuff in college ?  Or are the guys
slacking off at the college meets ?  Or is mens gymn about to make a sudden leap
upward in difficulty ?

Many on this list have had fun ripping Nunno apart.  On the news the other night
they commented about how boring tennis has become lately.  They attributed it
to the nice people in the sport.  Jimmy "the brat" Connors is gone as well as
"Nasty" Nastasse and a number of other colorfull and despicable people.

Right now Nunno is on the hotseat and before that  Bela bashing was in vogue.
I think we need to find some truly slimeball guys to coach mnens gymn to get
it back in the spotlight.

I can see it now on "Inside Edition", Keswick being caned for slipping
off pommel horse.  GIF's posted to alt.tastless !

Cue: manical laughter as a cloaked phantom cuts the chandelier.
     Audience screams, menacing organ music swells in sound.



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 17:06:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Nationals, Commonwealth comments, my new address (!)

      Nationals coverage, I thought, was cool. I liked seeing non-medalists
like Summer Reid and Amy Chow (on bars). Does anyone know where Kerri is
training? I didn't recognize that gym at all.
      Okay folks, time to start predicting women'sDortmund team. My guess -
Dom, Amanda, Amy, Kristin McDermott, Summer and someone TBA. i don't think
Doni, Moceanu or Jenni can go because of age - am I right?
      Sorry about not filling you in on some of the commonwealth coverage
earlier. I was busy moving to FLagstaff, AZ to attend school there. Long story.
My old address is still good, my new one is
      Stellah rocked her events in both team and AA. Did anyone know she can
to a front layout-full on floor out of a run? Whoa. She was supposed to tumble
out of it and didn't, but man, was that amazing for a last pass. Her ro layout
on beam was amazing, as well as the middle pass of back handspring, two footed
layout, handspring, layout stepout. Sorry, the ro layout was her mount.
      Ruth Moniz should've been second in the AA. All the Aussies are whimpy
vaulters 'cause they have no hips or butts. I swear, Ju Ping has them all
looking like Chinese gymnasts. Oh, but the ALL have GORGEOUS extension on bars,
and most do a double front off, with good form, and kick out of it. Amazing.
Can she coach Ghimpu for a while and give her some bars technique? I don't mean
to harsh on the Aussies because they are good, but if they had weight, they
might be able to tumble and vault.
      Stacey Galloway got injured in warm-ups doing a hop-full - tckachev
combination, valiantly competed anyway, completed the combination, and would've
gotten a much higher score if she hadn't take five steps out of the double-pike
sismount on her two bad knees.


Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 14:36:16 CDT
From: ***
Subject: Nationals keepsakes

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions on keepsakes...

I called the USA Gym office and was told to call back Wednesday about T-shirts.
Coke allowed me to purchase a pin over the phone (with credit card of course).

Mike, when I know more about t-shirts I will pass it along ...



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 13:17:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***
Subject: Nationals keepsakes

> Hi,
> Does anyone know if T-shirts or some other form of keepsakes are available
> via mail order for Nationals?  After driving 11 hours to see Friday night's
> session we were disappointed to find the T-shirts, etc. were all gone. If
> anyone has info, this mother of an 8 year old gymnast would really like to
> hear about it. The only "real" meet keepsake she obtained was the pin worn
> the hotel's clerk.
> Thanks,
> Kim
Call up the proshop at California Sports Centre, in San Jose CA
Area code 408, I dont have the number with me.  The proshop usually has some
memorabilia from the nationals.  The are located on Blackford Ave.

I am working some distance away from there at the moment so I cant tell you
whats in the shop right now.  With luck, you can arange for them to ship parcel
post (youll probably pay extra for the shipping as they dont do much mail order)(



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 16:32:30 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Nationals keepsakes

   Thanks for the tshirt info.  Someone at USAG told me there was no way, but
I hope you got the right info cuz those were awesome tees.  Did you see the
one's the athletes had?  Dom wore hers all day on Saturday, apparently she
wasn't to worried about being recognized.
    I have no idea about Kristy Powell, cept to tell you that alot of juniors
are coming on super strong and it wouldn't surprise me if she hit pretty well
and was still 8th.  I can tell you that after Dom M was injured and just
seeing all these new faces all summer I would've bet anything the all around
went to Doni Thompson or Katie Teft beforehand...  but now we know Dominique
is as strong as alot of about a year ago's hype sugggested. 
    I already forgot what athletes you asked about so I'm just gonna say what
comes to mind.  Cincinatti is awesome.  Amanda Borden is a fantastic presence
for her teammates, very animated in her support and definitely cares about
them very much.  Jaycie Phelps was obviously awesome.  Kristy Lichey is
unbelievable I think.  She has a complete package, not just one or two great
events.  I think if she keeps improving and grows a little she'll be awesome.
     With Cinicinatti and Cypress and Aerials coming up so beautifully, I
really like the looks of things to come. =) 
     Kim I didn't talk to at all, I didn't really talk to many people at all.
 I met some gymnasts, but I pretty much just said congratulations to everyone
and left it that.  I really didn't have enough time to spend with Kaitie, let
alone make some new friends.  I had a great time finding out that the girl I
always expected to be the Snow White of the seniors does get profain at
times.  I watched three guys with a pizza spend like an hour trying to pick
up Kim and Betty and Michelle after the comp in the hotel lobby.  Kim looked
fine to me, btw, but I saw her maybe 4 times all weekend and never even said
a word to her. 
     It was neat to see just who is as cool as you imagine them.  I've been
in the same hotel as the athletes a few times this year and I'm starting to
get a good idea of who I would like outside the gym.  I'm also starting to
see alot of the intra and intergym politics and all that fun stuff.  This
weekend I really finally concerned myself with having fun while I was there
instead of meeting and talking to everybody and taking cool pictures.  I
talked to people when it was convenient or I had something to say. Right
before I left I managed to get a few words with Kelli Hill, who had all but
totally lost her voice.  There's no doubt in my mind that while plenty of
people are running great programs right now, Dom and Kelli are pretty
special.  they're both super down to earth, polite, and just plain fun to
talk to.  Being around either of them isn't the least bit akward.  Other than
that I don't know what to say, I saw pretty much everyone, had a meaningful
conversation with almost no one, and don't wanna go dropping opinions based
on one weekend which happened only 3 days ago.  I'd just say that there are
some very nice people out there, some who aren't as nice, and a couple who
are really special outside the gym.  The first two I could be mistaken about,
but the special ones you can't miss, and I let those people know I think
they're the best.
     Gymnastics wise I think most of the stuff I read on here was pretty on
target.  Its gonna be really almost another year til summer Classic when I
start to feel like we'll be able to who's gonna be truly great and who isn't.
 But I could definitely tell after this weekend that there's PLENTY of people
who could be really phenomonal.  Mike


Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 17:20:32 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Nationals thoughts

My hat is off to Dominique Dawes for her success!  After watching her
crash in the 1994 Worlds and knowing about her tumultuous personal life,
it is good to see that things can come full circle.  She deserves all
the success.  Although, I do feel that she was kind of "given" the FX
event gold.  I also think that it is good for Shannon to lose every once
in a while.  It does humble you (not that she was getting big-headed or
anything), plus, forgive the cliche, you always learn from your
mistakes.  I can also now say that I am a HUGE Amanda Borden fan.  It
was good to see her have a solid, complete meet.  I could watch her
floor routine all day.  And her bars, if she sticks that double-front

I also enjoyed (the little) coverage of the Junior Ladies.  Dominique
Moceanu is too adorable for words.  (So she's twelve!  She's still
cute.)  I think she has watched "Home Alone" too many times.  Anybody
notice the Macauley Culkin-esque "yes!" arm pump? 




Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 00:12:00 UTC
From: ***
Subject: NBC Coverage

I, for one, was damn glad that NBC devoted 2 whole hours to gymnastics and
televised it so promptly (unlike ABC, who shows meets months after the
fact).  And if the men performed as badly as has been reported here, NBC
can't be faulted for not covering them.  Watching them stumble and fall for
6 rotations would not interest me (even if I can see McCain's butt -- sorry
Susan!).  Maybe the men will take this lack of coverage as a hint that they
should work on consistency.  The tricks are there, they've just got to put
it all together.  Then maybe they'll make the big time like the women. :)
Debbie (*not* a stockholder of GE)


Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 22:52:41 EDT
From: ***
Subject: NBC coverage

>I have a question for David. Who was the guy talking at the very beginning
of the women's AA show? Was it you, by any chance?!<

Well I'm not David but ... it was Tom Hammond the non-gym guy commentator.
David did do the interview with Stormy that you saw.

"America's Best 3" will show some of the men if you're interested.



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***
Subject: NBC Coverage

> Until the time comes that someone sells more advertising time, coverage of
> Men's gymnastics will be limited. Before we went primetime with Nationals we
> could air the men on Saturday or Sunday afternoon. But now the sport has
> moved into a bigger time slot for viewership and the afternoon shows have
> gone.
> As long as the ratings hold, we will stay in primetime.
> With one hour of program time (actually 46 program minutes) each night, we
> felt like viewers would prefer a coherent women's competition rather than a
> hodgepodge of stuff (although some of the gymn crazies would perhaps prefer
> otherwise!)

This was a good decision.   Our bitch is that the guys dont get an hour of
their own !  Wer arent even demanding primetime.  An hour in the afternoon would
be fine !  Hell even an hour in the middle of the night with ample warning so we
can set our vcrs.

Most people who watch mens gymn do it because they are really serious about the
sport.  I can not say the same for womens gymn.  In the case of womens gymn
(I should be calling it girls) there are also a certain amount twho view it
for sexist rather than athletic reasons.  T & A has always sold products.
If the girls want primetime, then they can have it.  Girls gymn is one of the
few places guys can sit in front of the tube and leer at barely pubescent girls
without being called a pervert !

Guys gymn is not likely to sell that much so I understand it not getting
primetime.  What pisses me off it that it gets NO time !

> The men's meet was full of dreadful gymnastics. It was as if everyone was
> having a bad meet.  Airing that event would not foster greater interest in
> men's gymnastics. Indeed, John R. was inspirational, but we would have needed
> a full hour to show it properly.

This was a bad year for the guys AND the girls.

You could always edit together all the guys routines with bad wipeouts and
air this "blooper reel" on weekemd afternoons as a type of "blood sport" ?

After all ABC has its "Thrill of Victory & Agony of Defeat" !

> The American men are not ready for prime time ---- yet. Scott Keswick was
> still muttering about falling off the high bar the morning after winning the
> AA...... Hmmmm, not being elated that he had finally won the title!
Hes just pissed because everyone else was on his case about the falls.

Are you saying the guys are not ready for primetime ?
Or are you saying they are not fit to be seen on camera ?

> Given the time constraints we had, the decision was made to give the women
> all the coverage. We held feature material to an absolute minimum and put on
> as many routines as possible.

In an hour show there is not much time for "up close & personal".
As bad as this meet was, there was likely more time for it because you just had
very little GOOD material coming in from the cameras.
> As far as the Kerri footage is concerned, I aired it because it is a part of
> the sport we NEVER see. We did not exploit the shot (Slo-mo replays, etc).
> This is a dangerous sport --- this is an heroic girl. And this is an
> important story.

You are sounding like you may actually be an employee of NBC.
Is this true ?
What is your position ?  Program director ?
If you are a tech then in private mail I want to consult with you about
audio limiters.

> A note about the microphones. Whether you are pro or con on the Nunno issue
> of mics you have to admit that Steve is fun to listen to from time to time.
> And this time Peggy wore one too and she was good. We didn't have Steve up

The mike business makes me laugh.

How did he mean that bit about obituaries ?
Was that a threat ?

Peralta College TV shot a meet at UC awhile back.  They miked EVERYthing
so you can hear the grips squeak on the bars.  The BOOM when you land on floor
and even the jingle of the rings hardware. 

One of they guys got a bad rip
on hibar and his screasm was picked up back in the truck outside.
The obscenity was loud enough to knock the sound tech off his chair, bend
the needle on one of the VU meters and the force of the fall caused the
tech to snap off then plug of his headphone in the jack on the board.
As I recall he also got cut on the electronic rack behind him.


Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 16:43:10 EDT
From: ***
Subject: No men on NBC

It's going to take a gymnastic Michael Jordan for men's gymnastics to
really take off.  Before 1980, the NBA wasn't doing too well--few fans
at games, low revenue, etc., and was in danger of folding.  But here
comes two rookies named Earvin "Magic" Johnson and Larry Bird.  A lot of
sports people give them a lot of credit for "saving" the NBA.  And then
Michael Jordan came in 1984, and everything went nuts.  It's going to
have take a Magic/Bird/Jordan-esque kind of phenomenon to give men's
gymnastics in the U.S. some notoriety.

Anybody know if Mike has Net access?  Then again, I don't know if I want
to put any more ideas in his head.



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 17:15:43 EDT
From: ***
Subject: No men on NBC

>It's going to take a gymnastic Michael Jordan for men's gymnastics to really
take off. <

And what was Scherbo chopped liver? I mean he did a half hearted work out
(like what work-out with Vitali isn't half hearted?) and blew away our guys
and he's coming of 2 recent shoulder surgeries. I mean Steve on a great day
can do a tuck open full-in mount on floor and Scherbo coming off injury and a
little warm-up is nailing layout full-in's just for the heck of it. The
hardest pass I saw in floor finals was an Arabian double front. Not even a
simple double layout graced the scene.  Yes, I know that John can do the
double double and he was injured and didn't compete but Scotty threw all the
cheap stuff and later said in an interview that diffciulty wise his routines
are where he wants them for Atlanta.

Oh and as for the "University of Gold Cup" comment that's what Stormy
 announced as Mihai got his PH gold in EF.



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 13:09:41 EST
From: ***
Subject: Re[2]: Susan's Men's Comments

Eeeeeeeeeeeesh!   The men's team sure sounds "below par" (the posts hurt
my eyes to read...but sound right-on).  Scott Keswick
winning in spite of many errors is an ouch to the impression of U.S. men's
gymnastics.  Now, this may garner a grunt or a "not again" but:
if these guys are the product of the pre-NCAA Nationals demise, seems that
no matter how many teams are represented for a collegiate competition, a
national program is a must (or does it sound like the "chicken before the
egg"....).  In any case, Ron Gilmore sure has his work cut out for him on both



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 10:27:44 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Summer Reid?

Will I was watching the EF on TV I was amazed at Summer Reids Beam routine.
 She had a wounderful difficulty paked routine.  Sure she did have a balence
brake and her form was not perfect but that routine IMHO deserved a higher
score.  I also belive that the judges were a bit unfare to the girls without
a big name like Shannon and Dom. 
-Melissa :)


Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 22:25:18 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Susan's Men's Comments

>Scott fell on his Kovacs - what else, from what I heard that was his only

Scott actually fell only that once in the optionals but he had a rather
diastrous PH filled with near misses and rings was the only set I'd say he
hit cold. Big steps and blatent errors were the norm. I'm not just picking on
Scott. As for Bill ... well considering that there were 30 or 40 scores under
9.0 given out (and to some of the "top" guys too) a 9.9 (his HB score and yes
it was by far the highest of the men's meet as Shannon's 9.95 on optional
vault was the highest for the girls) brought him from 5th to 2nd in the final
rotation quite easily.

Mihai blew his vault (totally lost it performing more a timer then anything
else) and HB and therefore his 60%-40% compo lead. BTW, Mihai does have
lovely compuslories (probably our best) but he was the *only* one that went 6
for 6 there which may have had something to do with his winning that section.
He's not really a "name" yet with the judges. I'm hoping that this meet and
his success therein will be the confidence boost that he needs to be a big
player for the team in the future. Which is exactly what Ed (Burch - his
coach) said as he watched EF ceremonies.

Forgot to mention that I talked to Trent (Dimas) and he is now training and
would have entered this meet (he was successfully petitioned) but he learned
of the Winter Nationals reinstatement and decided to hold out just a tad
longer. He's said that he feels no pressure to perform and is really just in
it to have fun and so that in '96 he's not sitting there wondering "what if
?"  He's also still interested in exhibitions and other ventures (currently
he's doing some motivational speaking) but would like to eventually end up
commentating for TV (as would Chainey Umphrey).

Lance Ringnald, another "University of Gold Cup" (only Rachelle will get
that) gymnast, is currently working on a cruise gym ... giving lessons and
exhibitions a la Kurt Thomas.  Lance has no real plans to return to the
competition stage at this time anyway.

I think this meet is best summed up via vault finals where Keith Wiley, the
last one up and a last minute add to the Nationals at all (he found out
*Friday* that he could compete due to the many guys that scratched due to
injury and he hadn't really been training routines the last few weeks at
all). He needed to do nothing more then stand up two vaults to beat the 9.075
average posted by McCain. I mean one of the guys in this final was using a
layout Tsuk ... C'mon welcome to the early '70s. Brent Klaus with two misses
won the bronze simply for being the only guy (Jeff Lutz did either a Tsuk
double or a Kasamatusu full  - I can't remember -  but I don't think either
is a 9.8 SV ... correct me if I'm wrong) to attempt a 9.8 (max. value) vault.
He missed the double front and it was ugly as hell but at least he tried

Hey, I'm excited that Steve (offcially refered to as "The cute one who can
point his toes") took the bronze and Mihai made the Dortmund team and Keswick
certainly deserved the win but my point is that overall this was the most
dismal performance I've ever seen from a team that considers itself "world
class." It was far from worthy of notice by TV or anyone else for that
matter. If they perfrom even half this bad at Dortmund they haven't a chance
in hell of making the top 6 ... in fact if they look like this I doubt that
the top 10 is even in their reach.  They're nice guys, I know they work hard,
I know they're trying but something's just not there. They are not world
class gymnasts at this point. I'd love for them to go out and prove me wrong
for a change but I just don't see it happening.



Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 22:53:10 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Tanya Maiers

>Is Tanya back at Dynamo?  I thought she went to Colorado Aeriels.<

Little Tanya is at Aerials under Tom  and she had about the most disastrous
UB compo set I've seen. She fell twice and broke (to dead hang) on every
other skill. Poor kid.



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 16:52:16 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Tattoo?

> >Bit of trivia, the USAG *made* Wendy cover her tattoo with an ankle wrap.
> Did they threaten to toss her out of the meet?

Excuse my ignorance, but what kind of tattoo does she have?



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 02:29:25 EDT
From: ***
Subject: The "Miller"

>On Shannon's beam he either didn't notice or failed to mention that her
Miller was off a bit. <

Okay I gotta' say this, What everyone refers to as the "Miller" doesn't
really exist. In '93 she submitted a back dive 1/4 turn with a *hop* half
piraquette to the FIG for evaluation. They pre-rated it an "E" skill but then
in the meet she never actually performed it and therefore didn't get the
trick named after her or in the code. I've never seen her add the hop ...
excepting one Classic meet in early '93 prior to Brum. She tends to be a tad
off and setttle for a quick hands on 1/2 down to one knee. That skill is
still considered an "Omelianchik" and rated a "D" (though Oksana did it with
a hip circle out and immed. went to her hands and not through the handstand
so it's not really the same thing at all but that's what the code says) and
*not* the "Miller". Shannon must re-submit and correctly perfrom the skill in
World or Olympic comp. to get it named after her and in the code.

No flames please as I'm not slamming Shannon just setting the record
straight. It bugs me that even Tim, who should know better, keeps refering to
a non-existant skill as gospel. It's like in '88 when Bart refered to a
Rulfova as a "Shusanova" or in '89 when everyone credited Marinich with the
"Xiao Rhizui." It's total misinformation.

Also, it's hardly like that's the only error that Tim overlooked. Everything
that Shannon, Amanda, Jennie, or Dom did was a "slight error/bobble." Sorry
folks, but Shannon's "double layout" off bars isn't even close. She's short,
has no amplitude, and at this point it can't even be accurately called a
layout/pike ... more a double pike that's slighty more open in the first
flip. No-one ever points out her vault errors either. She's Shannon Miller.
 On floor every tumbling pass she did was pretty lame and scary low ... at
least Dawes doesn't work the code quite do hard (though her form is still
just icky).

Of course he rips someone like Jenni Beathard who had the best amnplitude and
swing of the meet to shreds. "That's not the most difficult dismount" Funny
he didn't mention that when Dawes did it and she doesn't even have any
releases. Well as Jenni herself said "I'm not Shannon or Dominque what can I
expect?" She was, quite frankly, thrilled and surprised that NBC bothered to
show her at all.



Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 22:53:05 EDT
From: ***
Subject: This-n-that on Nationals

>[Nunno] No question, the man play's to the mic...<

Well Steve told me that he would rather not be miked but you know for the
good of the sport. Kelli said that "I don't know I'm pretty nervous I may
scream" (this was before women's AA when Dom was still behind Miller -
unfairly,IMHO, since Shannon had a big break on compo beam and it went
unnoticed by the judges). I actually ran into Steve at the banquet and he was
pretty nice and easygoing ... maybe he just needs a few beers prior to a meet

On another Kelli note in the interviews after women's AA I asked if she had
any thoughts of pulling Dom from the world team and I quote "I think that we
have an obligation to put together the best team possible ... she wants to
compete ... we agreed to the trials system long ago"

BTW, Shannon need not *compete* in trials but only do an exhib performance
that "shows readiness" for the world team. Steve did say though "scores or
not you don't water down for a trials."



Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 23:54:17 EDT
From: ***
Subject: US Nat'ls on TV

Overall, I think the coverage of nationals was pretty good -- considering it
was of the women's nationals. There were a lot of routines (and thankfully
not much fluff) shown for the amount of air time.

I would have liked to seen a different camera view for the uneven bars
dismount -- less angled and more of a plain side shot. It's easier to get a
look at them. For example, with the camera angle we had, it was hard to get a
clear (though you could see it ) look at Miller's bent legs and pike in her
double layout.

About Nunno's comments,  I wonder if he didn't say most of his quotes knowing
he had a microphone on him. Or maybe he really talks like that all the time?

Why are there pictures of Romanians in the opening to the US Nationals. I
believe the footage is from the US v Romania meet. Last year there was a
sequence of Henrietta Onodi doing the 1992 compulsory floor. Granted the
Romanians are generally terrific, and so is Onodi, but I highly doubt they'll
be contenders for the US title.

Kerri's crash was absolutely horrific. I must give NBC credit for not showing
it in slow motion (as David mentioned). It was nice to see an interview with
her. She seemed happier (at least from what I could tell in about 2 minutes).
Her voice wasn't as high and strained as usual.

It was good to seem some Jr. routines. Last year they showed short clips of
many of the girls, but this year we actually got to see some routines. While
I imagine this had to do with having fewer of the class of '96 still in jr.

About the FX EF results. I personally thought Dom should have gotten it. She
had one noticeable flaw in that second tumbling pass's landing, but Shannon
also didn't land everything perfectly. I think they - the judges - probably
did get carried away in the moment to give Dawes a sweep, but I also think
that considering the tumbling, she did deserve it. She took a much bigger
risk than Shannon by throwing 3 much more complicated tumbling runs.

I know in the past I've said I like Tim Dagget, and I do, but at this meet he
was a bit irritating. He frequently forgets to speak in full sentences. Not
to mention that he seriously over uses some phrases such as "I gotta tell
you." and "I don't know." Perhaps he could join a commentators twelve step
program to cut down on clutch phrases. But I do like the way he has an
opinion and shows how he came to it (although I wouldn't always agree with
it.) On Shannon's beam he either didn't notice or failed to mention that her
Miller was off a bit.

Sorry for rambling.


Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 09:31:27 -0400
From: ***
Subject: US Nat'ls on TV

> Is it just me, or did anyone else notice that Steve Nunno's gymnasts
> hardly ever smiled, compared to others?   (I won't presume to guess
> what that might mean, since I can think of several very different
> interpretations.)

Geez, give this guy a break!  Remember, these gymnasts are CHOOSING to train at
Dynamo; nobody is making them.

Okay, I don't know the real reason why Steve's gymnasts don't smile, and neither
do you all.  Only the gymnasts, Steve, their family and friends, probably. 

My take on this is that these gymnasts go to train with Steve because he has a
reputation for producing world-class gymnasts and they are extremely serious.
To make the '96 Olympic team, everything has to fall into place at the right
time - the gymnast's age, body condition, mental state, training schedule, luck,
etc.  These girls want to peak at the right moment.  Two years to go.  No time
to fool around.  Their days are probably consumed with thoughts of winning gold
at Atlanta, with the fame and endorsements that follow. 

What I'm trying to say is that I think these girls put enormous pressure on
*themselves* to win - period.  Who can be concerned about putting on a smiling
face for someone 200 feet away from them looking at them through binoculars?
This is an important meet and if a gymnast needs to distance themselves from
others to concentrate on an upcoming routine, who's to say that this is right
or wrong.  Maybe the reason that the other girls are smiling is because they
know that they will never win, and the pressure is lessened.

This reminds me of the '79 men's NCAAs.  My parents came to see me compete. 
The top gymnasts were Bart Connor and Kurt Thomas.  My mother just adored Bart
and couldn't stand Kurt due to the fact that Bart was more of "team player".
While his teammates were competing, he was cheering them on.  Kurt was usually
at the other side of the gym while his teammates were competing, concentrating
on his routines.  Neither of these styles is right or wrong - it's just the
type of person that you are.

Sorry about the diatribe, but the implications that Nunno is some type of
neo-Nazi were just going a bit too far for me.  :) :)



Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 12:27:47 EDT
From: ***@BBN.COM
Subject: US Nat'ls on TV


In all fairness, the NBC coverage did feature a better fraction of time
devoted to routines, and I'm grateful for that.  As for the lack of men's
coverage, it could have been worse:  In times past, error-riddled men's
competitions have been "covered" by a several minutes of blooper-reel
style snippets of routines, highlighting the falls and played for laughs.
I'd rather see nothing than see something like that!



End of gymn Digest