gymn Digest Thu, 29 Sep 94 Volume 3 : Issue 25

Today's Topics:
Another NCAA Lawsuit (Women) Re-send
Bill Roth
Boguinskaya's "Comeback"
Borden to GA? (2 msgs)
Borden to GA? (fwd)
Brandy Johnson/Amanda Borden
Christy Henrich video (fwd)
Cirque du Soliel
Doni Thompson Interview
Former USAG public relations man moves to [IU] UPI
Fwd: Mary Lou on TV(again)
Fwd: Re: Juniors Going Senior (re-send)
Gymnastics GIF's
gymn gif's
gymn gifs (4 msgs)
J. Thompson's moved to Karolyi's (2 msgs)
Jennie T @ Dynamo (fwd)
Jennie Thompson has moved
Juniors Going Senior
Letters of intent (re. Borden posting)
NCAA Women's Gym
Olympic Fever Story
Oral/Written Commitments (was Re: Borden to GA?)
Oral agreements
Romanian Women Go On Strike (from Rueters)
Romanian women on strike!?
Verbal Commitments (was Borden to GA?)

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 15:23:30 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Another NCAA Lawsuit (Women) Re-send

I don't think this made it through yesterday so I'm sending it again. (like
you didn't already have enough mail right?)

Susan
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Another NCAA Lawsuit (Women)
Date: 94-09-27 02:50:22 EDT

Infomation gleaned from the AP report "Brown Lawsuit" by Tim Whitmire (direct
quotes noted)

Brown's female athetes (gymnasts included) are contending that university is
guilty of sex discrimination when it comes to the athletic department . The
trial began today. This is the first time a case like this has actually gone
to trial since 1987 when Temple University settled out of court after 3 weeks
in court.

The suit is based on the fact that the school cut funding to 2 women's sports
in 1991 (volleyball and gymnastics). They say that this violates the Title
9, sex discrimination in funding act, and sued in 1992. Men's golf and water
polo were also cut at the same time. It was all due to "budget cuts"
according to the university. The sports retained "varisty club staus" which
allows them continue as before as long as they provide their own funding.
"Funding for the two women's teams was returned after a December 1992
preliminary injunction issued in U.S. District Court and upheld by the First
Circuit Court of Appeals in April 1993."

A Brown university spokesman says that "[Brown's has the] nation's top
women's sports program. Brown offers 15 women's varsity sports, well above
the average of 8.3 for NCAA Division I schools, and has 324 female athletes,
nearly three times the average. There are 2,700 female students at the
university. Brown University has a history of change, it has a history of
changing for the better. Just because something may not be optimal, may not
be to your liking, does not mean it's discrimination."

Lynette Labinger, lawyer for the plantiffs (from "Trial Lawyers For Public
Justice"), said at a press conferance before the start of the trial ... "At a
time when universities around the country are slowly waking up to their
responsibilities under Title IX, Brown University has attempted to cancel
active women's teams, failed to upgrade successful women's club teams to
varsity status and provided its male athletes with superior treatment and
support,"

Bown's laywer, Walter Connolly Jr., says "[the] school has the "pre-eminent
athletic program for women in the country ... If Brown University can't win
this case, I don't believe any university is ever going to win [a Title IX
case] ... [if Brown loses the case] university after university will be
forced to eliminate men's teams ... Southeastern Conference schools already
offer two more women's teams than men's to avoid any appearance of
discrimination.

Lisa Stern (Sr. at Brown orig. from Mesa, AZ) co-captain of the gymnastics
team was the first witness saying "She testified that the return of full
varsity status meant better equipment, increased attention from trainers and
a private locker room for her team ... the team's part-time coach still must
run the team's home meets almost single-handedly"

[Stern on their part-time coach] "She doesn't have time to coach us which is
the most important thing"

[Defense lawyer Connolly asked] "Are you aware [very"LA Law" phrase eh?], Ms.
Stern, that every single year the gymnastics team doesn't spend its whole
budget and has money leftover" Stern said she was not.

-posted by Susan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 09:55:32 +1000
From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject: Bill Roth

Bill Roth hyperextended his knee on Mon. doing a rings dismount. As a
result he is not going to the meet in Toronto this weekend - Steve McCain
is taking his place.


>Mayland

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 15:21:57 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Boguinskaya's "Comeback"

In defense of Svetlana's honor (and my utter horror at hearing the goddess
called "pathetic" ;-) I must say that all we really know is that she is in
Houston and *working* at Bela's. Bela says "She want's to train with me" (he
also says Betty's making a big comeback and thought that Kelly Pizan "would
play an intergral role on the '92 team") but anyone that's seen Svetlana
knows that even after her "retirement" she's been spending an average of 3
hours per day in the gym to keep in shape for exhibitions, tours, and clinics
(of which there have been many for her). Also her trip to Texas probably has
a lot more to do with her former coaches Alexandrov's employment (head coach
of the Soviet Women's team from Stuttgart to Barcelona) then the lure of
Bela's wisdom. I mean anyone with eyes can see that Bogie just ain't
Karoyli's "type" in the gym ... she never was.

Yes, she's at Karolyi's and yes, she's in the gym ... but training for
competitive gymnastics? I *seriously* doubt it. If she wanted to make a
comeback she would have done it long before now. I, quite frankly, chalk this
whole thing up to Bela's fabulous self promotion ...

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 14:29:55 PDT
From: ***@geoworks.com
Subject: Borden to GA?

We should probably not continue this on the list, so any further
questions please send to individuals only.

I'm assuming she doesn't know much about contracts either, and so
by not signing something feels safe in changing her mind. I doubt the
University would be annoying enough to try to enforce such a thing (what
kind of dammages could they claim?), and I doubt they could (as far as
proof is concerned) even if they wanted to.
I don't even know what this "verbal commitment" (as reported on the
list) entails. For all we know this could have been a reporter saying:
"Hey are you going to XXX University", and her saying "Yes", or maybe the
University coach calling her up and saying "so are you going here?" and her
confirming. Being on paper, things on paper are almost always clear as to
what exactly is being commited to, whereas verbally this is rarely the
case.

Dave

> Okay, this brings up the question:
>
> Why have a verbal committment and not just sign the dotted line? (I know
> very little about contracts!) If they both mean the same thing, then
> this shouldn't be a problem.
>
>
> --Robin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 21:32:02 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Borden to GA?

>I wonder it agreeing to a verbal contract as opposed to a written
contract has something to do with maintaining her amateur status or
something along those lines.

Nope. Remember Kelly Garrison (Steves) who competed simultaneously for US
National Team and the University of Oklahoma (2-time NCAA champ).

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 16:08:41 EDT
From: ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: Borden to GA? (fwd)

I wonder it agreeing to a verbal contract as opposed to a written
contract has something to do with maintaining her amateur status or
something along those lines. I know that Dawes is planning to attend
Stanford down the road -- is that a verbal or written agreement?

Also in the article about Borden it indicated that Karin Lickey
and Sam Muhleman had also agreed to verbal commitments to attend
Georgia. All three gymnasts are trained by Mary Lee Tracy (who also
paid a visit to the Georgia campus).

Kim Arnold had already signed with Georgia so along with the members
from last year's team, I'm looking forward to a great season of
gymnastics here at the University of Georgia.

Even though my first interest in gymnastics was watching the Olympics
(both men/women), I have to admit that over the years I've grown to
love collegiate gymnastics the most. I remember attending my first
meet many years ago and being VERY disappointed in the quality of
gymnastics compared to the Olympians I had been watching on TV.
Over a period of the last l0 years I have become very impressed with
the overall quality of collegiate gymnastics and have enjoyed seeing
former Olympians (from both the U.S. and other countries) perform
in person.

Beth-



----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> As far as I can tell (my girl friend just started law school and is
> studying contracts, so this is slightly second hand, but should be
> accurate), a verbal contract (a verbal commitment should qualify, if the
> school acknowledged the commitment) is just as valid as a paper one.

Okay, this brings up the question:

Why have a verbal committment and not just sign the dotted line? (I know
very little about contracts!) If they both mean the same thing, then
this shouldn't be a problem.


--Robin
------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 16:02:17 EDT
From: ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: Brandy Johnson/Amanda Borden

>> On Brandy Johnson--
>> I'll bet she would have DOMINATED the collegiate scene (like
>> Kelly Garrison-Steves in the mid-late '80's) Who knows?

Since I am relatively new to the list, I'm sorry if this has already
been discussed recently. But, I was curious about what Brandy
Johnson is doing now? Is she still involved in gymnastics?

In our local paper today (Athens, GA), it was reported that Amanda
Borden has made a verbal commitment to the University of Georgia.
Like Dominique Dawes, Borden is planning to wait a year before she
enters college.

Beth-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 16:18:44 EDT
From: ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: Christy Henrich video (fwd)

On Oprah's talk show tomorrow (Wednesday) the topic will be on anorexia.
The actress Tracy Gold (who is starring in a movie on the subject matter
and also was a victim of the disease) will be on the show.

Beth-
----------------------------Original message----------------------------

I just saw a very brief news clip on TV that Christy Henrich's fiance (I
forget his name.) has developed a video about Christy and her anorexia. I
believe it is to that song he wrote. They showed a clip of the video. Part of
it was Christy doing gymnastics. Part of it was of her and her fiance in the
recording studio. It said the video was going to be distributed, but I don't
know where. The fiance said he hoped it would help people to realize the
dangers of the disease.

LeeAnn

Beth-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 16:21:50 PDT
From: ***@cisco.com
Subject: Cirque du Soliel

Well, this years "Company event" was a cisco-only presentation by Cirque du
Soliel, doing their current "Allegria" show here in the SF bay area.

Cirque du Solile is essentially an animal-free circus, thus consisting of
mostly accrobatics of various sorts and clowns. The acrobatics were
particularly impressive, and as they were based on gymnastics, I thought
I'd mention some specifics here.

Tumbling:
I guess spring floors aren't springy enough, so the CdS acrobats tumble
on a large, cross shaped trampoline. Aside from the "easy stuff" like
crossing traffic of various sorts of traveling jumps, there were the
tough passes like (jump onto tramp), berani, layout, layout, full twisting
double back, and so on (the final trick ends up landing on a landing mat.
I think one guy did a quad, but it's a little hard to count under such
circumstances.

Rings: (we didn't have a very good view of this, but basically it looked
like a pretty standard strength ring routine, done 25 feet off the ground,
while manipulating aluminum tubing frame-figures (like a cube) with any
available free limbs.)

Beam: normal beams are springy enough either, so they get a nice springy
board and have some strong guys hold the ends. In between the springier
beam, and the guys at the end THROWING them, the performers got some pretty
good height. The "big" tricks were full-twisting double backs, and three
consecutive double backs (the third went off to one side a little, so the
beam-carriers had to move over and get the beam back under the performer!)
I realized (later) that this beam is easier to land on than a normal beam -
you get a big shock-absorbing effect as well as the better lift-off)

High bar/unevens: This was pretty indescribable, envolving three (or 4?)
bars and a trapeze. Lets just say that this was the show finale, and
deserved to be!

All things considered, the show has enough insanity to keep an ex-gymnasts
heart beating fast for a couple weeks. On the bright side, the show is
accompanied by music, with little or no talking. Thus the beauty, skill,
and the spectacle end up being emphasized rather than the danger. Nets,
wires, and other saftey equipment were employed, as well as spotters for
any number of the big tricks. (spotters who took an active role - catching
performers on their landings whether or not they were "in trouble")

Highly recomended if they come to your town, or if you're someplace that
they are...

Chops

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 11:36:40 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Doni Thompson Interview

>From the Chicago Tribune (27 Sep. '94) "Head Over Heels:Gymnast Fell In Love
With Sport After Shopping Trip" by Brendan Hanrahan (direct quotes noted)

At 13 Doni has alrady spent 6 years training for her dream ... the Olympics.
At 7 she stumbled onto the Colorado Aerials club (and coaches Tom & Lori
Forster) after a shopping trip with her Mom. They started working on Doni's
felxability and at age 8 she began to compete. By 9 she was the J.O. Nat'l
champ on UB.

This summer at the USOF [her most successful comp.to date] she won 3 golds
(AA, UB & BB). She also debuted a new vault ... "a tucked with 1 1/2 twist -
backward" [the paper's word's not mine]

Of her new vault (and other sets) Doni says:"I used to be scared of it. Now,
it's not so bad. For my dismount [UB] I do a double layout. It's fun flipping
around twice!"

For Atlanta: "I need harder tumbling runs, another release move on the bars
and more moves on the beam."

Here's that weird quote "She is getting more experience competing, too. Doni
got second in the junior division at the August nationals and plans to
compete as a junior at the World Championships in November (rules there say
you have to be 15 before competing as a senior)." [Perhaps they meant she was
going to compete as a Jr. since she *couldn't* compete at Worlds yet (which
*is* the answer that Doni, Kristi, and Theresa offer when asked why they
haven't moved up to Sr's) and the reporter just screwed it up.]

She trains 5 or 6 hours a day and loves to travel. "It's fun to meet other
gymnasts, too, like the Russian, Romanian and Chinese girls. They
traditionally exchange gifts, and the T-shirts Doni gives are very popular.
She's gotten neat stuff, too, including a red, yellow and black metal
bracelet the Chinese gave her."

Doni's outlook (and one of the main reasons I like this kid even if she does
make MaryLou look downright morose) "If I don't make the Olympics,it won't be
the end of the world. I'll still have a full life to live." [The eerie thing
is if you've ever talked to her you sense she means it]

Last winter she agreed to give up another sport she loved; skiing. "It's only
for a little while. After the Olympics, I'll be back!"

"Some super-quick facts on Doni - Height: 4 foot 10. - Weight: 78 pounds. -
Hometown: Colorado Springs, Colo. - School: 8th grade, doing home school with
her mom. - Favorite music: Wynona Judd. - Astrological sign: Aquarius."

-posted by Susan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 23:11:13 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Former USAG public relations man moves to [IU] UPI

>What the heck is IUPUI (sounds like an exotic disease)?<

Just in case in anyone else is wondering (and because somehow I was on drugs
when I wrote the title) ... "IUPUI" is Indiana Univeristy-Purdue Univeristy
at Indianapolis. A combination site of both schools located in the capital.

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 18:36:57 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Mary Lou on TV(again)

I don't think this got sent.......
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Mary Lou on TV(again)
Date: 94-09-21 19:13:33 EDT

Just saw my local news and Mary Lou was on it. There was some new thing
about Wheaties
and they had Mike Jordan, Mary Lou and others previously on
the box
eating the cereal together.They showed a replay of an old commerical
with Mary Lou doing her vault and the had a short interveiw with her.
Just thought you all want to know
Anne

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 10:42:01 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Juniors Going Senior (re-send)

Here's another message that apparently didn't make it the first time.

Susan
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Re: Juniors Going Senior
Date: 94-09-28 02:52:51 EDT


>Granted, there are examples of going Sr. early being beneficial (Shannon
Miller for one - perhaps)<

The thing is most countries Int'l invites do not have age limits so people
like Katie Teft (only 12 and still competing as a Jr.), for example, *can*
compete with the worlds Sr's (she did just that at the '94 USA/CHN/BLR meet
in May) ... without being a Sr. at the national level. Of course, in theory
more Sr. team members get to go to big meets but if you look at the girls
that competed Int'l last yr. in "little" meets several were Jr.'s. Even "low
level" & "unknown" Jr's like Onnie Willis got to represent the US at a fairly
major meet; Japan's International Junior Invite. If she was a Sr. (she's 14
and was 13 then) she would have most likely not been choosen for this major
Int'l meet; invaluable expirience.

I have no idea what *competitive* benefit Jennie Thompson or Marianna Webster
(for example only) have had by going Sr. early. Is Jennie any more well
respected Int'l then Dominque Moceanu? Has she had more successful meet
expirience then Doni Thompson? What has her Natl's finish really gained her
in the long run? She could have quite possibly been the champ (or at least a
medalist) in the Juniors. Does a non-medal spot and an unusable bid into a
trials she's not old enough to attend really benefit *her* (and if not Jenny
then who really does gain ... hint, hint)? To me it seems un-needed pressure
in an already pressure laden sport.

I can see going Sr. at age 14 the yr. before an Olympics but at 13? At 12?
Will we see it even younger then that? Where do we draw the line? Why even
bother with the Jr. designation if "anyone" can be a Sr. just be declaring
that they were? To me it seems beyond silly that many of the Jr's are older
then the Sr team members.

Jennie Thompson will be * barely* 15 (the min. age for Olympic athletes) in
1996. In '97 she will again *barely* make the new 16 year old age limit for
worlds. That's *3* whole years from now. How many gymnasts are still
competing at high Int'l levels after 3 years? It's entirely conceivable that
her "career" could end before she's even old enough to compete!! To me it's a
pretty scary thought that coaches may be shortening an athlete's lifespan in
a sport where the "career" of an athlete can be over in the blink of an eye
simply for their own personal gain.

Every 4 years six little girls (and one alternate) get the honor of
representing their country at the Olympic Games. Number 8 gets nothing. 20
years from now what will be a more treasured memory from this year's
Nationals ... Moceanu's Jr. victory or Jenny's 4th place Sr. debut?

This isn't an attack on Jenny by any means ... god knows she had little
enough to do with her decision to go Sr. ... but in the long run if it turns
out to be the wrong choice it *is* Jenny that will suffer.

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 03:28:02 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: Gymnastics GIF's

I've gone and scanned a coupla' pics I had (note the time). It
is possible that I could send them out to people, right? If anyone knows
how to do this, or has patience ands wants a copy of them, e-mail me and
we can get started. For your info, so far I have one of Qiao Ya on beam,
and two of Xorkina (bars and floor) if you're interested.


Amanda (acturner@asu.edu)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:17:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@madonna.coedu.usf.edu
Subject: gymn gif's

>
> Does any body know of where any gymnastics gif sites are? Maybe gymn could
> keep an up-to-date record like they do for magazines, the calandar and
> such...
>
> AMAHDA
>

It is possible that the Delphi gymnastics sub has some. I have a
grey scale scanner and I was thinking of uploading some if I knew where
to put them. I might be getting a SLIP account, in which case I will make
some available, but I want to know if any body knows a way to get
International Gymnast to supply electronic copies of their photos.

Someone tell me of a public address where I can dump GIFs that I
took myself and I will make those available.
STEVE

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 21:00:10 PST
From: ***@electriciti.com
Subject: gymn gifs

=I want to know if any body knows a way to get
=International Gymnast to supply electronic copies of their photos.

(Speaking unofficially for IG, Nancy writes:)

Buy us a big Mac! (Or even a little Mac. I'd even settle for a PC.)

We have no scanner. We have no 'net account. We have no modem. We do have a
computer, the Mac SE (ca. 1988) I use for the Gym Shop and small databases.

... but can any of you operate a typesetter?

Seriously, I think there's a thing called copyright that would prohibit -
or at least frown upon - distributing IG's photos that way. As a
photographer, I'd like to think so.

So if you're scanning and uploading them, you're veeeerrry naughty.

But thanks for the mention.

Nancy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 02:36:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@madonna.coedu.usf.edu
Subject: gymn gifs

If you don't think you can afford a new computer, think can you afford
not to have one?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 00:13:51 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: gymn gifs

> If you don't think you can afford a new computer, think can you afford
> not to have one?
>

Well, it's not like people are going to cancel their IG sub's in
favor of the fluorescent galaxy of USA GYMmag. It's called substance.
Besides, I don't need 3-D glasses to read IG unlike USA.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 08:47:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@madonna.coedu.usf.edu
Subject: gymn gifs

Obviously, and I am glad to see that you recognize the superiority of IG.
But, since it is possible that IG may use an electronic publishing
program, or even potentially have access to digital photography, it would
be need for them to provide electronic copies of unused photos over the
internet, possible for order if they were concerned about losing money.
Think of it, you could download a picture of your favorite gymnast, take
it over to Kinko's and produce a custom poster for your gym. There would
need to be special commercial restrictions, of course, like you couldn't
use the photos for personal profit, but still, it would be fun.
Plus, for those of us, like me, who have an extisive (non erotic)
GIF library, it would be nice to acquire some gymnastics GIFs. I am sure
there are tons of professional photos taken that didn't make it into the
magazine, why not sell them over the internet?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 19:32:29 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: J. Thompson's moved to Karolyi's

I just thought everyone would like to know that it's been confirmed that
Jennie has left Dynamo...her last day was Friday, Sept 23 and moved to
Karolyi's. She started with Bela on Monday, Sept 26.

KAITIE

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:08:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu
Subject: J. Thompson's moved to Karolyi's

> I just thought everyone would like to know that it's been confirmed that
> Jennie has left Dynamo...her last day was Friday, Sept 23 and moved to
> Karolyi's. She started with Bela on Monday, Sept 26.

Anyone know why? I mean, is there any particular reason?

Lisa
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:54:47 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: Jennie T @ Dynamo (fwd)

>I just thought everyone would like to know that it's been confirmed that
>Jennie has left Dynamo...her last day was Friday, Sept 23 and moved to
>Karolyi's. She started with Bela on Monday, Sept.26.

I won't forward the flame mail I got after I posted the below, but thank you
very much.

Amanda
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 12:31:50 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Jennie T @ Dynamo


Who else thinks Jennie Thompson will return to Karolyi's... My guess is
before the American Cup...or sooner than you can say "Steve Koresh"!


******************************************************************************

Gurova


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 20:20:56 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Jennie Thompson has moved

For those who don't know, I just found out that Jennie has moved back to
Karolyi's. Her last day at Dynamo's was Friday and she started at Karolyi's
yesterday.---Brian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 21:31:20 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Juniors Going Senior

>Her coach, Tom Forester of CO Aerials, says - and I whole heartedly agree
with him (on this and most everything else) BTW - "Why compete as a 'Sr.
International' at Nationals when Internationally you're still considered a
Jr?"

Granted, there are examples of going Sr. early being beneficial (Shannon
Miller for one - perhaps), but I wish that more coaches would think this way.

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:57:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU
Subject: Letters of intent (re. Borden posting)

Letters of intent are the binding contracts between an athlete and
their school. If a person chooses to go elsewhere after that, they *must* get a
written release from that school or loose a year of eligibility, which can be
considered a redshirt year.
However, there are funky loopholes one can use in order to get out of a
letter of intent. An Arizona basketball player got out of his letter because
the letter was not dated. But an oral commitment is usually a good indicator of
where a person will attend school. Other schools will look down upon a school
that allows a person to attend who has made a commitment to another school, at
least from what I have heard.
--Cara
P.S. I was the one who asked what happened to Leonard Issacs. If it is personal
or anything, you're welcome to beat around the bush in a private e-mail to me.
Much thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 21:32:11 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: NCAA Women's Gym

Before I even bring up my point, first let me say -LET'S NOT START ANOTHER
ELITE VS. NCAA WAR!!! I'm referring to NCAA as compared to itself, not to
elite (whatever your opinion of either)

>Over a period of the last l0 years I have become very impressed with the
overall quality of collegiate gymnastics and have enjoyed seeing former
Olympians (from both the U.S. and other countries) perform in person.

Without question, NCAA gym has improved immeasurably in the last 10 years. I
think it started in 1986-87. If you look at '85 Nationals, then each
successive year, the changes (particularly from 85-90) are incredible. Back
in '85, Penney Hauschild won bars with a very sloppy routine. I have to
assume to everyone else either missed or was worse. Other routines were
comparable. Lisa Mitzel won floor opening with a double full. By '87 and
'88 the difficulty level had risen *dramatically* and continues to do so.

Also, I have a feeling the NCAA women will make very imaginative use of the
new Code. But again, I must say, however good the gymnastics, the scores are
still too high.

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 01:40:52 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Olympic Fever Story

Wow! I think Mrs. Stack may need some psychological counseling. She really
has a warped perspective on things. Obviously, I wasn't around during the
events of her story, but her need to blame everyone else for problems while
keeping herself guiltless is amazing! I don't doubt that some of the things
that she wrote are true, but she does have quite a conspiritorial vision. And
if she believes everything she said, how could she possibly rationalize
keeping her child in the sport and see herself as a good mother. (Note: I'm
not in the least saying gymnastics moms are not good mothers. I don't believe
that at all. I just fail to see how Mrs. Stack can rationalize away all her
responsibility in the story (and I do say story, not necessarily the truth)
she tells of the gymnastics community ganging up on her child to destroy
her.)

Susan, thank you for sending out the story.

LeeAnn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 09:18:47 EDT
From: ***@eos.ncsu.edu
Subject: Oral/Written Commitments (was Re: Borden to GA?)

> > As far as I can tell (my girl friend just started law school and is
> > studying contracts, so this is slightly second hand, but should be
> > accurate), a verbal contract (a verbal commitment should qualify, if the
> > school acknowledged the commitment) is just as valid as a paper one.
>
> Okay, this brings up the question:
>
> Why have a verbal committment and not just sign the dotted line? (I know
> very little about contracts!) If they both mean the same thing, then
> this shouldn't be a problem.
>
> --Robin

A lot of athletes do it to go ahead and end the recruiting "wars" that
he/she may be involved in. It allows them to concentrate on finishing
high school and to concentrate on their particular sport without
worrying about being hassled to go to this school or that one. A verbal
commitment usually comes before the written one just to say, "this is
where I want to compete for the next four years". Some athletes also
make oral commitments because they have not made eligibility
requirements yet, and can not sign with a school. It may serve as a
motivational force of sorts. Plus, I know that in basketball in
football, there are only certain times of the year, such as a month
during each semester, that the athletes can sign letters of intent.

--Brent

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 10:21:29 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Oral agreements

>As far as I can tell (my girl friend just started law school and is
studying contracts, so this is slightly second hand, but should be
accurate), a verbal contract (a verbal commitment should qualify, if the
school acknowledged the commitment) is just as valid as a paper one. The
reason it commonly isn't thought to be valid is because proof
is quite easy when you can show a signed piece of paper, but proof of a
verbal contract just boils down to one person's word against another unless
you have recorded it in some identifyable way.<

As a second-year law student, I've already taken contracts; however, it's
been a year, but anyway, what I recall is that some verbal agreements are
enforceable, but there is this rule called the "Statute of Frauds" which says
that an oral contract is not enforceable unless it can be performed in less
than a year and (and/or?) is worth less than $500. I'll check my casebook
from last year and correct this if it's not entirely accurate.

:)
Adriana

PS
I'm taking sports law this semester and I just *love* it. We did NCAA stuff
the last couple of weeks.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 11:12:06 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Romanian Women Go On Strike (from Rueters)

>From 2 stories on Reuters(27 & 28 Sep. '94) by Radu Timofte (direct quotes
noted) ...

The ROM women's gym team (10 girls) walked out of the training hall in Deva
on Monday effectively going on strike. They claim that their gov't was not
rewarding - financial rewards that is - them properly for their successes
in competition.

Bela says (speaking from Deva and saying he deslikes the term "strike" but is
sympathetic to their pleas): "Our young gymnasts told me two days ago their
decision to interrupt the in-door training sessions. My girls told me they
don't want to work indoors. They will work only outdoors, jogging and so on,
but no training and no performing until this is resolved. Even though they
are the most famous of Romania's performers, for five months they haven't had
the money prizes promised for their high success at the international
contests on the spring. All our gymnasts are morally wounded. They are all of
them convinced that the Sport and Youth Ministry deceived them. When you are
fighting for gold medal[s] this is a deadly barrier to be[ing] the best in
the world again.

Milosovici (now age 18) said "The government could not expect lifetime
devotion without reward. I can't work years and years for nothing. My family
are building a house and I need to send them money." Milos and Gogean
together claim they are owed 42 million lei (about $24,000) each for their
recent victories (Brisbane and Stockholm).

State secretary of Youth and Ministry promised to come up with money as soon
as possible and blamed bureaucracy and "artificial finacial barriers"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - -
Day 3 -

"Prime Minister Nicolae Vacaroiu has intervened to end a strike by Romania's
top women gymnasts, promising to pay them overdue government bonuses."

Belu says: "The sport and youth ministry called me last night to say our
prime minister swept away all the bureaucratic barriers which held up normal
prize payments. It only took one phone call and within two hours there was a
positive solution after my girls waited five months with unhonoured
promises."

Milosovici has been told she would now receive 25 million lei ( about
$14,000) on Wednesday before she leaves Bucharest for the Birmingham Classic
[Sherwin will have to let us know if he see's her going shopping ;-)]. This
covers the money owed Lavinia from Brisbane (silver and bronze medals) ...
Europeans prize money will be awarded later.

Ana Marie Bican and Gina Gogean have already left for a meet in Toronto.
[What is that meet called again? Is it still the "World Challenge of
Champions" like last year? Is anyone in Canada gonna' give us a "Gymn"
report?]

"Ten international-class gymnasts are training at the Deva Olympic gymnastics
centre, one of the so-called 'performance plants' built as a showcase by the
former communist rulers to produce some of the best athletes in the world."

Belu (in summation): "I hope this time all the promises will be kept and the
girls will not have to go on strike again." He was now confident the team
will be at the world team championships in Dortmun come November [Wow
wouldn't have that been an upset?! ... no Shanon, no Romanians ... you might
as well have an Olympics in LA without the Soviets <g>].

-posted by Susan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 11:25:34 EST
From: ***@email.cfr.org
Subject: Romanian women on strike!?

Ladies and Gents, here's a WOW gotten from Reuters World Service dated
Sept. 27:

"Romania's women's gymnastics team, stars under communist rule and still
among the world's best, have gone on strike claiming the new government is
not rewarding them for their success" They are refusing to train in-doors,
but will continue to keep in shape by jogging etc.

The brief story goes on to quote Octavian Belu, speaking from Deva, as
being sympathetic to their plight. It seems the girls have not received
money promised to them by the Sport and Youth Ministry for successes
abroad. Milosovici and Gogean are mentioned has having expected the
equivalent of $24,000 each.

>From what I can gather, this is going on solely in Deva (the article
states that 10 elite gymnasts are/were training there).

*Big* news, 2 months before Dortmund!

'Tis a new world.....

Connie


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 17:31:18 -0400
From: ***@cykick.jvnc.net
Subject: Verbal Commitments (was Borden to GA?)

>Why have a verbal committment and not just sign the dotted line? (I know
>very little about contracts!) If they both mean the same thing, then
>this shouldn't be a problem.

I'm sure the NCAA experts here (Ron?) will confirm or clarify this, but
let's see how well (if?) I can explain it...

I believe the real reason for the verbal commitment is that the NCAA has
specific "signing periods" for students being recruited for sports teams to
formally accept athletic scholarships. There are two such periods; one in
the fall and another in the spring. I believe the window is about 6 weeks.
There's no restriction on which sports can sign athletes at a particular
time - you'll sometimes hear of a football or basketball player delaying a
decision until spring. However, most signings take place in the spring.

The actual document is called a "National Letter of Intent." Also, the
coach recruiting the athlete is not permitted to say anything about the
athlete until that piece of paper is signed. So, for instance, in Amanda's
case, don't look to hear any comments from the Georgia coach before
November.

This question is well-timed. I just read an item in one of the local
papers today about a high school (men's) basketball player making a verbal
commitment to one of the local colleges. Sometimes such early commitments
are publicized (usually by the athlete's high school coach) as a way to
possibly influence other athletes in the area to commit to the same school
- especially if the "early bird" has a high rating among scouts.

Hope this helps a little...
Helena

------------------------------

End of gymn Digest
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