gymn Digest Mon, 29 Aug 94 Volume 3 : Issue 7

Today's Topics:
4 Men Petition to World Team Trials.
FX: Miller v. Dawes
More Men's Comments
Nationals keepsakes (3 msgs)
NBC Coverage (2 msgs)
Re[2]: Germany, east v. west
Susan's Men's Comments
Tanya Maiers
This-n-that on Nationals (2 msgs)
US Nat'ls on TV (2 msgs)
Women's AA thoughts

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 20:13:37 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: 4 Men Petition to World Team Trials.

>Just a note that the women could learn from the men and make the National's
the place where the team is picked rather than the trials being held in
October. If you remember correctly it is the trials that Steve Nunno doesn't
want Shannon to compete in. Sounds like he would like her to be on the World
Team if they could have a couple of months to train for that instead of the
trials.

Bulls**t!!!

1) I doubt there's anything the US Women could learn from the US Men at this
point (except maybe how to pout)

2) Steve's making excuses. This new trials excuse is only the newest one.
He doesn't want her to go because it's 'only' a team competition.

3) An October Trials makes much more sense than picking the team 3 months in
advance. No way for the gymnasts to lose their edge. The men should do this
too.

Mara

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 13:28:30 +1000
From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject: FX: Miller v. Dawes

Kathy writes:

I did not understand
the FX EF finals. Neither Dawes nor Miller was perfect, but Dawes'
clear mistakes were surely worse than Miller's. (Miller had that
off-kilter landing on her first pass, and her leaps were rather timid;
Dawes had problems on two of her tumbling passes.) Did I miss something?
Did momentum carry the judges away, perhaps? (Oddly enough, though,
when the camera was focused on Miller's face as she watched the
end of Dawes' routine, the impression I got was of someone thinking,
"Darn, Dominique did it.")

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Knowing that the code is very different from a year ago, and that both of
these routines are difficult and have the added bonus of maturity which
translates into some grace - would one of the gymnasts or judges on the net
please go through the routines and let us know the E and D moves and the
bonus points for connections etc. I have a feeling that we are back to the
same problem that was there during St. Petersburg where the only way to
know why the one person won was to know the code of points. As Kathy
points out Miller had the look of Dawes took it, and Miller knows the code.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can do this.

Mayland

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 15:20:35 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: More Men's Comments

Well there were *over* 60 falls in the men's AA (68 mem competed ... Sr. &
Jr. together). Scott fell at least once in compos and once or twice in AA.
And he won. McCain (whom I adore but geez a bronze with this?) fell on HB and
totally missed his p-bars (He said in an interview that he "rarely hits that
trick") and still took the bronze. Billy was semi-clean in optionals but his
compos were hardly exlempary. Of the 6 men scheduled to compete in the HB
finals 5 had major errors and since Roth scratched all 6 guys we saw were
coming off falls to make the finals. Not exactly a steller performance. John
Roethlisberger flipped out a bit at a press conferance after the men's AA and
said that he was "pissed off" by the bashing the American men were taking by
the media. "You'll realize we're damn fine athletes" ... Yeah well maybe if
the *National Champion* can go better then 10 for 12 I'll agree. That ten for
twleve is falls only too ... not even counting major errors.

The really sad thing is that this was a really great meet for Scott. He fell
far less then usual but is this acceptable? I mean in Scott's own words he's
"just now comfortable with the compulsories" ... What? ... It's been *two*
years give me a break. Shouldn't at least *one* of our best guys (and Scott's
routines are difficult enough and performed fairly well when he hits) be able
to go into a meet with the actual probablity of no falls. I mean just one ...
is that too much to ask?

Apparently.

Susan

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 13:43:04 CDT
From: ***@amoco.com
Subject: Nationals keepsakes

Hi,

Does anyone know if T-shirts or some other form of keepsakes are available
via mail order for Nationals? After driving 11 hours to see Friday night's
session we were disappointed to find the T-shirts, etc. were all gone. If
anyone has info, this mother of an 8 year old gymnast would really like to
hear about it. The only "real" meet keepsake she obtained was the pin worn
the hotel's clerk.

Thanks,
Kim

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 17:55:14 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Nationals keepsakes

Kim,
Tshirts were totally sold out like 5 minutes into the comp, but the Coca
Cola pin van had an official meet pin. It was five bucks and the exact same
graphic as on the tshirt, really gorgeous. I was bummed about the tshirt
too. I got stiffed at US v Rom, too.=(

Mike

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 18:24:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Nationals keepsakes

I'm just guessing on this, but it might be possible to order T-shirts from
USA Gymnastics. I know I've seen advertising for T-shirts in their magazine,
but my subscription expired a while ago, so I'm not sure exactly what they
offer. But it can't hurt to try.

Beth

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 14:49:33 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: NBC Coverage

Until the time comes that someone sells more advertising time, coverage of
Men's gymnastics will be limited. Before we went primetime with Nationals we
could air the men on Saturday or Sunday afternoon. But now the sport has
moved into a bigger time slot for viewership and the afternoon shows have
gone.

As long as the ratings hold, we will stay in primetime.

With one hour of program time (actually 46 program minutes) each night, we
felt like viewers would prefer a coherent women's competition rather than a
hodgepodge of stuff (although some of the gymn crazies would perhaps prefer
otherwise!)

The men's meet was full of dreadful gymnastics. It was as if everyone was
having a bad meet. Airing that event would not foster greater interest in
men's gymnastics. Indeed, John R. was inspirational, but we would have needed
a full hour to show it properly.

The American men are not ready for prime time ---- yet. Scott Keswick was
still muttering about falling off the high bar the morning after winning the
AA...... Hmmmm, not being elated that he had finally won the title!

Given the time constraints we had, the decision was made to give the women
all the coverage. We held feature material to an absolute minimum and put on
as many routines as possible.

As far as the Kerri footage is concerned, I aired it because it is a part of
the sport we NEVER see. We did not exploit the shot (Slo-mo replays, etc).
This is a dangerous sport --- this is an heroic girl. And this is an
important story.

A note about the microphones. Whether you are pro or con on the Nunno issue
of mics you have to admit that Steve is fun to listen to from time to time.
And this time Peggy wore one too and she was good. We didn't have Steve up
full all the time!

And finally a note for Connie S. . . . The angles of our coverage haven't
changed in 4 years. Sometimes we get lucky and get better shots (Hands on the
unevens, etc.)

That's all for now,

David

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 19:06:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject: NBC coverage

I just wanted to say I agree with David's points, PLUS he had warned
viewers in TV Guide that there would be little, if any, men's coverage. I think
the general viewing public just doesn't understand men's gymnastics (I'm a fan,
and I can't say I understand all of it, especially pommel horse!). I think we
have to realize that TV networks are a business, and they have to be concerned
about ratings. Women's gymnastics will draw a much larger viewing audience -
fans and non-fans alike will tune in. I know that some of my coworkers, who
know VERY little about gymnastics, will watch women's events, but switch the
channel on men's. One coworker complained to me during Goodwill Games that the
men's floor exercise was boring, because there's no music and they don't dance
like the girls do. I personally think men's floor is one of the most exciting
events, but much of the general public just doesn't "get it." Anyway, I was
happy that we got such good coverage of the women (and thank goodness the
Columbus affiliate didn't preempt it for being in prime time!). As for die-hard
men's fans, you can always order videos from USA Gymnastics. They're usually
very thorough and reasonably priced. Or else see if anyone on gymn took a
camcorder to the meet (Billy?). Believe me, there are many ways to get videos
of meets that aren't aired on network TV for one reason or another.
I have a question for David. Who was the guy talking at the very beginning
of the women's AA show? Was it you, by any chance?!

Beth

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 12:19:02 EST
From: ***@email.cfr.org
Subject: Re[2]: Germany, east v. west

Mara wrote:
>Bronze in '87 and '88 were jokes, as was 5th place in 1989. A few
>individuals such as Gnauck and yes, Kersten, aside - I'm not sorry to see the
>last of the DDR.

Tis true, I agree...Seems they were already a bit "fouled-up" even before
the Wall fell...Berger's own "wall" was prodigious enough to rattle scores
until the bitter end...am sure the U.S. is grateful for the demise of the
GDR as well.....

Connie

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 16:11:21 +1000
From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject: Susan's Men's Comments

Susan -
>"Scott fell at least once in compos and once or twice in AA."

Mayland
Scott fell on his Kovacs - what else, from what I heard that was his only break.

Susan
>"Billy was semi-clean in optionals but his compos were hardly exlempary."

Mayland
And that doesn't show - come-on. He was in 6th after Compos - where he
should have been considering the mistakes he made, but to come back and do
an Optionals set 6 of 6 and the spectacular high bar routine of his -- with
the best optionals score of the meet - he ended up where he belonged 2nd.

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 20:13:30 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Tanya Maiers

>Dynamo had the most gymnasts qualified to Nationals with eight. However,
two (Heather Brink and Tanya Maiers) scratched.

Is Tanya back at Dynamo? I thought she went to Colorado Aeriels.

Mara

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 13:59:57 EST
From: ***@email.cfr.org
Subject: This-n-that on Nationals

I don't know if it's a measure of NBCs coverage, but my Dad's mouth was
practically wide open in amazement while he watched the routines (he
covered his eyes and winced when he saw Strug's fall- now perhaps a debate
will follow on whether the footage was necessary....real gruesome looking).

The camera angles were it seems more interesting this time around:
lots of overheads, lateral movement during the FX, and those shots of
gymnast's hands on-off the uneven bars; though they still have to learn to
have the camera more stationary during routines to avoid "sea-sickness".

Those small microphones the coaches wear sure can pick up some entertaining/
"wierd" stuff- Nunno telling Shannon after 2 events in the all-around:
"I just checked the obituaries, and your name's not on it, yet" and "your
alive, your alive" after one of the event finals. Of course, the matching
black outfits they wore during the EF, didn't help the plot get brighter for
them........

I too, decry the lack of men's coverage, though from Susan's post NBC might
have had a tough ride filling-up time with many good/complete routines :-(.

Enough from me.

Regards to all,
Connie

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 20:13:43 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: This-n-that on Nationals

>Nunno telling Shannon after 2 events in the all-around:
"I just checked the obituaries, and your name's not on it, yet" and "your
alive, your alive" after one of the event finals.

No question, the man play's to the mic...

Mara

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 12:40:34 EDT
From: ***@BBN.COM
Subject: US Nat'ls on TV

Just some random thoughts:

It's truly a shame that we didn't get to see more men's gymnastics.
If it's not on, no one can watch it to develop a taste for it.
If it's "not ready for prime time," how about showing a hour of
it in the afternoon? (One of the networks [CBS?] used to do this
with the NCAA's: show the men in the early afternoon, then
show the women in the late afternoon, which I presume is a better slot.)
I would have thought Roethlisberger's attempt to four-peat being derailed
by injury, and Keswick finally winning the title, would have made for
good human interest.

On the plus side, we got a much better ratio of routines to fluff than usual.

I have no quibbles with the results of the women's AA based on what
we were shown on TV. Dawes has really improved, and Miller just couldn't
afford that mistake on beam. On the other hand, I did not understand
the FX EF finals. Neither Dawes nor Miller was perfect, but Dawes'
clear mistakes were surely worse than Miller's. (Miller had that
off-kilter landing on her first pass, and her leaps were rather timid;
Dawes had problems on two of her tumbling passes.) Did I miss something?
Did momentum carry the judges away, perhaps? (Oddly enough, though,
when the camera was focused on Miller's face as she watched the
end of Dawes' routine, the impression I got was of someone thinking,
"Darn, Dominique did it.")

I don't have a great opinion of Daggett as a commentator. If I could
see the small problem on Miller's Miller on beam, why couldn't he?
(Of course, it was during coverage of beam that they mentioned that
Dawes mutes the commentary when she watches gymnastics on TV. :-))

My roommate (the one who doesn't really follow the sport, but likes to be
amazed by the "suicidal" things that happen on beam, unevens, and high bar)
came over at my urging to see Summer Reid's beam mount (after already
being bowled over by Dawes' similar beam pass), but after Jennie
Thompson's standing full twisting back on beam, wandered off in disbelief. :-)
(Yes, he saw Gutsu do it, too, but he still doesn't believe it.)

I was hoping to see Wendy Bruce; I'm glad to hear she did some good stuff.
I'm glad Amanda Borden put it together at last; hope she can keep it up!

Is it just me, or did anyone else notice that Steve Nunno's gymnasts
hardly ever smiled, compared to others? (I won't presume to guess
what that might mean, since I can think of several very different
interpretations.)

Miller continued to be gracious in her "post mortem" interviews,
as was Dawes. Wouldn't it be great if they could successfully
communicate the concept of a friendly rivalry, and of wanting
to do your best regardless of the result? Just think: world class
athletes who are pleasant, upstanding role models, as well.
(You know, like Bonnie Blair or Edwin Moses, people who are thus
often perceived as boring by the media. [Sigh.])

I really could have done without the up close and far too personal coverage
of the immediate aftermath of Strug's fall. This is ambush journalism, IMHO.
And the insertion of Christy Henrich at the end seemed to be a last minute
addition without any segue or follow through. Tacky.

>>Kathy

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 14:26:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: ***@ulibnet.mtsu.edu
Subject: US Nat'ls on TV

> On the other hand, I did not understand the FX EF finals. Neither Dawes
> nor Miller was perfect, but Dawes' clear mistakes were surely worse than
> Miller's.

I was in attendance on Saturday night and to my untrained eye Dawe's
balance check did seem more noticable than Miller's. The crowd was much
larger Saturday night than Friday night (4700 vs. over 6000) and got
warmed up as the competitors competed on floor. With Miller, Dawes and
Borden the final three competitors we were as Rachele noted "about to
explode". Dawes' back to back tumbling run really did excite the crowd.
Although I really did enjoy seeing Miller's routine in person, I'm
getting a little tired of it.


> being bowled over by Dawes' similar beam pass), but after Jennie
> Thompson's standing full twisting back on beam, wandered off in disbelief. :-)
> (Yes, he saw Gutsu do it, too, but he still doesn't believe it.)

Thompson hit her standing full every time that I saw her practice or
perform it. It was fantastic!

> I was hoping to see Wendy Bruce; I'm glad to hear she did some good stuff.

Wendy looked in very good physical condidtion. I think that she just
needs to get more practice.

> I'm glad Amanda Borden put it together at last; hope she can keep it up!

Amanda was a BIG crowd favorite.

> Is it just me, or did anyone else notice that Steve Nunno's gymnasts
> hardly ever smiled, compared to others? (I won't presume to guess
> what that might mean, since I can think of several very different
> interpretations.)

You have definitely got this one right. I spent some time at the meet
watching the athletes when they were not competing through my
binoculars. I wanted to see what really goes on at a meet rather than
just what is shown on TV. The Dynamo gymnasts were by far the most
INTENSE group of athletes from any gym. Jennie Thompson was the most
intense of all. Every time that I looked for her she was busy running
through routine after routine in a remote corner of the arena. She
seemed to be under alot of pressure. Soni Meduna and Mariana Webster
also had concerned looks on their faces every time that I watched them.
Miller looked very upset and worried on Friday night, but seemed to
loosen up on Saturday.
>
>

Sharon

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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 94 20:14:04 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Women's AA thoughts

>>Jennie had some lovely UB transitions<

>Jennie Thompson? I think not.

I like her delayed glide and her 'Lu Li' transition from low to high.

>Bela also said that Betty has resumed training

How seriously?

>Bit of trivia, the USAG *made* Wendy cover her tattoo with an ankle wrap.

Did they threaten to toss her out of the meet?

>He also said that he left Russia due to Arkaev problems ("I hate him") not
injuries or anything else.

Seems to be an almost universal problem

>Viatli worked out. No really I saw it. He did.

No one believes you. ;-)

Mara

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End of gymn Digest
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