GYMN-L Digest - 21 Apr 1995 to 22 Apr 1995

There are 31 messages totalling 948 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Double Layouts on FX (Women).
2. NCAA Women's Upset
3. NCAA Men's Team Finals
4. #1(2) GYMN-L Digest - 18 ...
5. NEGATIVITY
6. Junior Compulsaries (2)
7. Negativity - a different slant
8. Zmeskal's vaults (2)
9. Killing Comp. (2)
10. NCAA Team Finals (2)
11. Notes from the coaches' meetings
12. killing comps
13. Womens floor tumbling question (2)
14. NCAA WOmen's Championships (2)
15. Rhythmic (2)
16. clarification
17. Women's NCAA's
18. Compulsories
19. PC Gymnastics
20. 2 things
21. NCAA Women's Championship
22. PC [or MAC] Gymnastics
23. Compos & PC Gymnastics
24. NCAA WOmens

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:43:50 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Double Layouts on FX (Women).

>Wasn't a chinese gymnast doing them in 1979?

I thought it was Ma Yanhong, but I may be wrong.

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:43:54 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: NCAA Women's Upset

Thank you, Ron DuPont!
************
Would you believe...

1. Utah 196.65
2(t) Alabama 196.425
2(t) Michigan 196.425

Georgia finished 5th with 2 falls.

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:59:37 -0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: NCAA Men's Team Finals

> Team finals -- brief results
>
> 1. Stanford 232.400


BIG ENORMOUS SMILE as my alma mater picks up yet another one!!!

:D
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 01:22:08 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: #1(2) GYMN-L Digest - 18 ...

Dear Jill,
It just so happens that I am in the process of opening my 3rd gymnastics
facility and am looking for full time people interested in a career position.

The name of my gyms are Fun & Fit Gymnastics Centers, but with the opening of
the new facility there is a name change to Fun & Fit Gymnastics America.

I opened my first gym over 10 years ago, the second 7 years ago and the new
school now under construction, should open in June. It will be the premier
recreational gymnastics facility in the nation. All of my centers are fully
non-competitive.

6 years ago I began licensing the curriculum poster reward system developed
in my schools. There are now over 80 gyms using the Fun & Fit Gymnastics
Program internationally.

Future plans are to open a chain of facilities across the sun belt (from
California to Florida) by the end of the decade.

Interested? Call me! I could use help in Atlanta or Los Angeles begining as
soon as you are available.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:39:06 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: NEGATIVITY

Dear Gymners,

This is a hard letter to write because what I have read on this form
lately. I joined because I thought Gymn was a place for fellow gym
fans to exchange information and share opinions. I guess I was wrong.
So far, what I have seen time after time is people getting jumped on
for stating their feelings. I agree with Amanda when she stated that
it is in poor taste to criticize gymnasts for things they can't help
(ie. big ears ect.). On the other hand, what is the harm in stating
Grosheva must have lost her min for cutting her hair? Or saying
someone may be an elite but they are still a mediocre gymnast. If, by
some off chance a gymnast happens to read one of the posts, they would
most likely ignore it. After all, they hear much worse from their
coaches every day.

It is not right to punish people for sharing their opinions. If you
don't like what someone is saying, don't read it. After all, there
may be some people who are interested in what they are saying.

Alix

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 15:14:37 +0200
From: ***@MAIL.LSS.CO.ZA
Subject: Re: Junior Compulsaries

> Compulsaries for our junior athletes are being phased out with there
> being no need to learn them since they will no longer be part of
> international competition after 1996.

I am aware that compulsaries will not be used after 1996, but in South
Africa SAAGU (South African Amateur Gymnastics Union) has decided to
keep the compulsaries in SA in order to keep up with the rest of the
world. I don't understand how this will keep us up to the
international standard because it will mean less time to work on
optional routines.

Helen.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 09:31:00 -0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Junior Compulsaries

> I am aware that compulsaries will not be used after 1996, but in South
> Africa SAAGU (South African Amateur Gymnastics Union) has decided to keep
> the compulsaries in SA in order to keep up with the rest of the world. I
> don't understand how this will keep us up to the international standard
> because it will mean less time to work on optional routines.

Are they keeping compulsories at all levels? I would find that
surprising. What I would expect is that they're keeping compulsories for
the beginning levels, the ones that, at least in some places, don't compete
optionals yet at all anyway. The theory is that it will make coaches teach
the young ones/beginners the all-important basics properly. Also, before a
certain point, gymnasts don't have enough skills to put together much by
way of optionals.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:30:15 UT
From: ***@MSN.COM
Subject: Negativity - a different slant

I'm wondering if the sensitivity is because we're talking about young girls.
I think most of us have a subconscious need to protect them because of that.
I'm not saying that that's wrong, but we have to remember that they are
competing in a world-class sport, and that if the comments were about Michael
Jordan or Michael Tyson or Bruce Jenner there would be far less concern. When
they're performing, we think of them as atheletes. When they're the brunt of
criticism, or when they've screwed up and are crying, we think of them as
what they are - young girls.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:22:48 -0400
From: ***@PRISM.GATECH.EDU
Subject: Re: Zmeskal's vaults

>

>
> > trend coming. BTW: Is a Piked Cuervo a 10.0 vault? I know that Khorkina's
> > derivative (with the RO half to the horse is) but what about traditional
> > approach. Makes no sense when the Layout Tsuk full (or Kasamatsu, depending
> > on how you twist) is a 9.9. Who makes up these codes?
>
> A piked Cuervo is a 9.9 and a layout Tsuk full is a 9.8, not 9.9.
>

I thought the Yurchenko layout full was a 9.8, but the tsuk layout full is a
9.9?


Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:29:09 -0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Zmeskal's vaults


> I thought the Yurchenko layout full was a 9.8, but the tsuk layout full is a
> 9.9?

No, the values are the same for ro and traditional entry. Go figure.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:51:37 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Killing Comp.

Hi
Many moons agao I posted that I think Fig writers need to keep the fan in
mind when writing the code of points. I didn't think of it at the time but
there has been something that has been done because of the fans and that is
killing the comp.. I think one main reason the comps were gotten rid of is
because there boring to see and there was no fan support for then. I do
believe strongly gymn took the lead here from figure skating. There little
dispute on why figure skating got rid of them ( no fan support for them).

I do have several questions:
They say there will be a modified oppotional, Doesn' t the men
already have this. Are there not 3 required parts on all events already. If
the make more required parts then woundn't this then be a comp. routine.

This is jumping tracks but a question was asked a little while agao why
womens gymnastics is more popular them men's.
I strongly believe where the women have placed over the past few years is
a major part of it. I don't believe the score differental has anything to do
with it. I do however believe this,and I don't care if you critisize me
for saying it because its just an opinion, Womens bodies attract bodies.
This is particularly true for college gymnastics because I see and here
people say, "Want to go to the women's gymnastic meet and scope out there
bodies." You can critisize and condem me for saying that but I have heard
people say that thousands of time first hand.
Peace
:o) Carl

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 09:23:40 -0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: NCAA Team Finals

53rd Annual NCAA Men's Gymnastics Championships
The Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
April 20-22, 1995

Team Finals

Well, unfortunately due to a computer virus, I was still unable
to watch much of the meet last night (I was volunteering with
the scoring). Luckily all was resolved quite easily, considering, but
nevertheless it lead to some panicked moments during the meet and
so I was not able to watch as much as I would have liked.

Stanford started the night on pommel horse and a 39.150 to lead
off in first place (Nebraska 38.75 on floor, Penn State 38.925 on
rings). They never looked back, scoring 39+ on floor and high bar,
winning those two events and vault (and of course pommels). Nebraska
bested them on rings and pbars but it was not enough to win the
title.

I was in awe of Stanford. Keith Wiley hit his Kas-full (two twists)
on vault. This was the vault that he performed yesterday that I
thought perhaps was a Kas. It's a testament to how well he performs
it that I made that mistake, because I had caught only the end of
the vault yesterday and when he was finishing his second twist, I
thought he was finishing his first! And such awesome form. This
guy has great line. In fact, all of Stanford does. Their tricks are
fun and innovative, and their routines are classy. For instance, on
floor, Ian Bachrach does a sky-high Arabian double front -- for his
second pass! I don't think I've ever seen an Arabian double not in a first
pass. I'm not saying it's never been done, because I really don't
know, but I've never seen it done, so it's gotta be kinda rare. Most of
Stanford dismounted floor with full-ins (most with a step).

Other cool routines: Josh Stein does a roundoff, half turn to the horse,
piked front off. Andrew Manson hit amazing "Lamortes" -- completely
_flat_ arms , held, inverted crosses. His Maltese was likewise excellent.
His double tuck dismount was a letdown, but the routine was so terrific
that I'm willing to ignore that. ;)

AND, this is so important that I want to set this aside: Jamie Ellis
hit his full-twisting Kovacs BEAUTIFULLY. Sometimes you wonder if a
move like that is going to be pretty, but I can assure you it was
smooth and the highlight of the night.

Nebraska had a really good group of guys, and as head coach Francis
Allen said, this was their "best second place finish ever. We did
not give the meet to Stanford; they won it." Richard Grace racked up
the highest AA total of the night again (not that it matters so much
since there was no AA competition, but it's a testament to the strength
of their program). His floor in particular was great though he's really
on fire for all of his events. Jason Christie and Rick Kieffer really
put in a lot of scores to the team total, too.

Didn't see too much of anything spectacular from Penn State, but nevertheless
they were hitting their routines. All teams did well and it was a
thrilling competition, very close. I don't think the level of gymnastics
is as high as the last champs I attended in 1993, but the closeness of
the competition and the hit percentage made this an impressive meet.

Notes from the coaches' meetings
--------------------------------

I didn't know this, but the NACGC (National Associate of Collegiate
Gymnastics Coaches) had renamed their organization to the CGA, Collegiate
Gymnastics Association.

There was much talk on the work that needs to be done over the next
few years to ensure the future of the sport. There are three key phrases
for people to remember to use in discussing the situation with others:

"Protected status" -- the CGA would like to seek a clause to protect all
Olympic sports from elimination in the NCAA.

"Endangered Olympic sport" -- self explanatory

"An unintended consequence of Title IX" -- the goal of the CGA is to
speak positively and non-confrontationally about men's gymnastics
in relation to money-making and women's sports. The goal is to promote
ALL sports. At any rate, if you are speaking to others about the
problems in retaining men's collegiate gymnastics, please use this
phrase as this is the message that has been most successful thus far, and
this is the message that the CGA wants to put out there to the media,
the public, and the NCAA.

Some of the rule changes for 1996:

-- You do not need to pre-define the nine men that you will use in
competition in regionals and nationals. (You must still use only nine,
however.)

-- The base score next year will be 9.3 (the entire season of
competition, including event finals).

-- The three-score average for qualifying to regionals will consist
of one home score, one away score, and one conference championships
score.

-- Allow increments in scoring of .05 in dual meets for score above
9.5

-- Sting mats for landings are permissable on rings, vault, pbars, and
high bar. (But they are not required.)

-- The host of nationals automatically qualifies into team prelims.

-- The start value is flashed alongside with the score for the routine
after it is completed.

Ron Galimore made comments during the meet about how USAG was prepared
to assist the CGA. "We are 100% committed to secure the future." He
was awarded a special service award for his help during the lobbying
to extend the moratorium, and in accepting the award he noted that he
felt the award was "premature, because we're just starting." Kathy Scanlan,
president of USA Gymnastics, was also recognized at the meeting for
her contributions to the campaign.

Your in gymnastics,
Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:20:01 EDT
From: ***@MIT.EDU
Subject: Notes from the coaches' meetings

The main goal now of the CollegiateGymnastics Association
is to "ensure the future of the sport" but they still kept the nine man
rule for regionals and nationals. I think the nine man rule is bad for
the sport. It limits the size of teams and the number of men who
can do gymnastics. It discourages against specialists, thus keeping some
people out of the sport. This is oppisit of what is needed to keep the
sport alive. The more people involved the better. When fighting the
people who are cutting the teams (athletic directors and other
administration) I would think a team of 20-25 people would have a
stonger case than a team of 10 people. For the good of the sport
there should be no rules limiting the size of gymnastics teams

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:27:17 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: killing comps

>Many moons agao I posted that I think Fig writers need to keep the fan in
>mind when writing the code of points. I didn't think of it at the time but
>there has been something that has been done because of the fans and that is
>killing the comp.. I think one main reason the comps were gotten rid of is
>because there boring to see and there was no fan support for then.

No you're stating an opinion here. Just because you don't like them
doesn't mean no one does. Most people I know WANT compulsories
because they know its benefits. I for one would sit in an
uncomfortable arena chair watching compulsories all day. We already
brought up the subject of the (impatient, ignorant--SEE BELOW!!) "fan"
vs the true gymnastics fan that is there for gymnastics.

> This is jumping tracks but a question was asked a little while agao why
>womens gymnastics is more popular them men's.
>I strongly believe where the women have placed over the past few years is
>a major part of it.

What you mean in the US? Well of course that's a part of it if that's
what you're talking about, but by the way this is an INTERNATIONAL
sport and even an INTERNATIONAL forum. Some countries are the
reverse, such as Japan, where their men's team has been Olympic team
champs but I couldn't tell you if any Japanese girls have even medaled
individually at any worlds (anyone??).

>Womens bodies attract bodies.
>This is particularly true for college gymnastics because I see and here
>people say, "Want to go to the women's gymnastic meet and scope out there
>bodies." You can critisize and condem me for saying that but I have heard
>people say that thousands of time first hand.

I'm not criticizing you because I'm doubting its truth, but more its
relevance. The same could be true for any sport, diving and swimming
or even basketball. Also it could be reversed of course, but maybe
your earshot has been limited so you haven't heard anyone say the same
thing about men's sports as well (believe me it happens!!!). Also I
am hoping these are not the people you are labeling fans when you say
"the fans like this and the fans like that. . . "

Later y'all,

Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:33:34 -0500
From: ***@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU
Subject: Re: Killing Comp.

Carl says:

> They say there will be a modified oppotional, Doesn' t the men
>already have this. Are there not 3 required parts on all events already. If
>the make more required parts then woundn't this then be a comp. routine.

Absolutely not. The beauty (or horror, depending on your perspective) of
compulsories is that everyone does the _exact_ same routines. This means
that the gymnast not only has to demonstrate good basics, but on floor and
beam she has to use skill, rather than great choreography, to stand out on
the non-acrobatic elements.

Even on bars, you can build an impressive optional routine around one or
two interesting releases. Think about Chorkina--she medaled on bars in the
'94 worlds because she has a few impressive tricks, but she has trouble
with a simple straight body cast to handstand, and because of her height
she has trouble with her dismount. You can't get away with that in a
compulsory routine.

On other topics:

1. I don't know who did the fist double layout, but my vote for _best_
double layout goes to Chusovitina.

2. I didn't get around to posting during the best fx thread, but my
favorites are Podkopaeva (94 Goodwill Games), Kathy Johnson (her last
competitive routine), and Bogie (any routine!).

3. By way of intro, I'm a graduate student in Clinical Psychology. I
competed in gymnastics from 1977-1981 and quit because of injuries. (My
doctor gave me a choice: stop now or possibly lose the use of both hands
for the rest of your life.) I've coached, but not for a number of years.
Sometimes the changes in the sport over the last 15 years amaze me.

--
Ilene

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:49:00 BST
From: ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Womens floor tumbling question

Dear all,

A friend asked me this question concerning womens floor and I
don't know the answer so I'm asking this to the more
knowledgable of you out there... here's a quote:

"I read on Gymn a while ago that someone was wanting to see 'a
side Arabian 1 & 3/4, but that's illegal by the code now.'. Does
this mean that all tumbles must be landed on the feet now? I mean,
all tumbles must be complete saltos, not like punch 1 & 1/4 (to
land on front) or Arabian 1 & 3/4 (to land on back)?"

If any of you can help it'll be much appreciated!

Sherwin

PS Different people do have different opinions, criticism or no,
that's what makes "discussions" interesting!

My two "pence"... :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:51:12 -0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject: NCAA WOmen's Championships

Date sent: 22-APR-1995 13:50:38
Well, here's what I know (condolences to the U of Georgia fans)

1)Utah
2)Alabama
Michigan

Jennifer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:16:00 PDT
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Rhythmic

I am a big fan of rhythmic, and it seems to be one place where
the Soviet breakup had almost a positive effect. The Soviet
Union was only allowed to compete 2 rhythmic gymnasts at the
Barcelona Olympics, and politics dictated that Skaldina
and Timoshenko make the trip. This kept Larissa Lukyanenko,
Oksana Kostina, and Elena Shamultulskaya at home. THese three
gymnasts were equally as talented (and maybe more so) than the
two that went. Skaldina was 5th at the previous europeans, behind
Petrova, Timoshenko, Kostina, and Lukyanenko. Now, each republic
can send their own gymnasts and Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus all
have a strong team and the overall level of competitions is much
higher. Unfortunately, it doenst seem time had been good to
Bulgaria as Petrova (who recently retired) and the ultra-cool
Popova seem more and more to be the whole team.

Rhythmic has been able to maintain the Soviet depth that seems
to have declined in artistic. Remember when Ukraine looked like
the team to beat? (Gutsu, Lisenko, Kalinina, Stobchatatya)

Adios,

Brett

p/s Go Lukyanenko! Win all 5 (6?) Golds in Vienna. You can do it!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:17:30 -0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: clarification

The rule changes that I listed in my previous note are only _proposed_
rule changes. They still need to be approved by the men's NCAA rules
committee to be put into effect.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:12:46 -0400
From: ***@GEMS.VCU.EDU
Subject: Rhythmic

Speaking of rhythmic, has anyone out there heard of Lori
Boettcher (sp?)? She and I used to do artistic together, but she got
scared of back tumbling when she was 12 and switched to rhythmic. I
think she's Level 10 now, and she's fifteen. Last I heard, she was
training at the same gym as Tamara Levinson, in Maryland. I'd
appreciate any news.
Christina

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:22:30 EST
From: ***@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: Women's NCAA's

Suzanne Yoculan said that if Georgia stayed on the equipment they would
win, and she was right. Georgia had to count one fall on beam and one
on bars. If I am not mistaken (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) those
are .5 point deductions. Georgia finished 5th with 196.075 to Utah's
196.65. Take away those falls and give us 9.80's and we win. (Forgive
me if I seem biased because I am.) Neither Utah, Alabama, nor Michigan
did anything spectacular (the only ten was by a UCLA gymnast (I don't
remember her name) on the floor. She was the last competitor in the
tournament and the entire Coliseum went wild. Gymnastics fans have got
to be the best sports fans in the country outside of Duke's Cameron
Crazies. Back to my original point before I started wandering.
The teams that finished first and second were simply consistent the
entire night. Georgia, however, simply choked. In my opinion, Coach
Yoculan put too much pressure on a young team (one senior) to perform.
In the all-around, Jenny Hansen won her third straight title with
a record 39.80. I got to the meet late and only saw her bar, beam, and
floor routines. She had a 10.0 on vault, 9.9 on bars, and 9.95's on
beam and floor. Wow. Georgia senior Agina Simpkins finished 2nd with
a 39.475. There was a three-way tie for third between gymnasts from
Utah, UCLA, and Florida (sorry I'm not sure about the names so I'm not
going to post them.)
The individual finals are tonight and I will try to take better
notes. Go Dawgs!
On another note. There is a gymnastics center here in Athens that
offers adult classes. I am 19 years old, 5'8", and have never taken
gymnastics before. Do you think I can learn enough to make it worth
my while to pay for lessons? I consider myself very athletic, and I
played varsity football, basketball, baseball, and tennis and ran track
in high school. Be honest. Thanks.


Paul

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:33:49 -0600
From: ***@HARRIER.SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: Compulsories

Hi all,


>>Many moons agao I posted that I think Fig writers need to keep the fan in
>>mind when writing the code of points. I didn't think of it at the time but
>>there has been something that has been done because of the fans and that is
>>killing the comp.. I think one main reason the comps were gotten rid of is
>>because there boring to see and there was no fan support for then.

>No you're stating an opinion here. Just because you don't like them doesn't
>mean no one does. Most people I know WANT compulsories because they know its
>benefits. I for one would sit in an uncomfortable arena chair watching
>compulsories all day. We already brought up the subject of the (impatient,
>ignorant--SEE BELOW!!) "fan" vs the true gymnastics fan that is there for
>gymnastics.


I am most definitely in favor of compulsories (IAs). I think this is the only
true way to compare gymnasts. To a less educated fan, the routines would all
look exactly the same. But if you're really watching you can notice some
very drastic differences in technique, execution, and style. I find IAs
most interesting and I too would "sit in an uncomfortable arena chair watching
compulsories all day." I just don't get tired of watching them and I
appreciate the hard work and detail that goes into perfecting the routines.

IAs are necessary to maintain good basics and good basics obviously improve
the quality of optional skills. When IAs are killed, I can (frighteningly)
picture the quality of optionals after 1996 declining for many
clubs/countries. Gymnastics might well turn into a "trick-fest" where it
doesn't matter what it looks like as long as it's thrown. That doesn't
sound like art to me.

For those of you that think IAs are monotonous and boring, don't you get
tired of seeing front-fulls, two and half twists, and Hristakievas in
optionals? Optionals can quite often be less interesting than IAs,
especially with a code like the present one. Sure there is always someone
or something that stands out in optionals, but that happens in IAs too. I
have favorite routines in compulsories the same as I do in optionals.

True, compulsories do not draw the big crowds but gymnastics means a lot
more than money to some people. I think compulsories help maintain a
basic standard of quality and they are essential if gymnastics is to
survive as an art form.

I do not want gymnastics to become a "money maker" sport. I don't follow
figure skating, but I notice that it seems to be gearing toward being run by
money. It's becoming more entertainment than sport. Many people want this
for gymnastics too. I don't like the idea, personally.

I could go on forever so I'd better shut up before this gets uncomfortably
long.

Yeah, this was a two cents thing...


Dory

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:33:52 -0600
From: ***@HARRIER.SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: PC Gymnastics

Ok, new topic.

Idea: Why don't we all put our heads together and try to come up with
a list of gymnastics programs (games or otherwise) for the computer?
New and old. (Would that be something for Gymn's WWW page, Rachele?)

I recall Summer Games by Epyx which had women's vault as one of the
eight sports events. Who else has seen it?

You had to stick a double Tsuk (tucked), hitting the board in the right
spot and pushing off the horse at the right angle in order to get a 10.0.
That's the only vault that would score a ten (not even a double front).

I believe Summer Games II has rings as well as uneven bars (?!?!?) but I've
never seen/tried it.

Anyone know of any current programs/games available?

Post away everyone.

Happy Weekend,


Dory

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:47:07 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: 2 things

1) <<If even you acknowledge that her second vault was poor, how can you say
she is one of the best vaulters ever?>>

I never said Kim's second vault was poor--I said that was what others were
saying, and that was what I was responding to. Now I'm sorry I ever said
anything!!!

2) It's been interesting reading all of the "negativity" comments. It seems
like it's 50-50. Obviously, no middle ground can be reached. Conflict gives
me a stomach ache, so I guess I'll just have to use the delete button more.
I came onto GYMN with an innocent love of the sport, so getting used to the
sometimes harsh tone of this fourm has been a challenge. As having just
barely escaped puberty myself, I am always very concerned about the treatment
of the young girls. I just hope we've all learned from the Christy Henrich
tragedy! Oh, the things we do to our children!

Later,
Ann Marie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:45:06 -0500
From: ***@SUVAX1.STETSON.EDU
Subject: NCAA Women's Championship

Wow!

The news has begun to trickle in about the championships. I was very
suprised about the results. I've been fortunate enough to see every team
that made it to the Super Six except Oregon State and I really believed
that the best "team" going in was Alabama. I saw Utah and though that, as
usualy, they were very good, but I never would have picked them. Georgia
really surprised me in a way. I know they are young and I have always
thought that their biggest problem this year is that they have great
individuals, but they are not the best "team" (ie, the sum of the individuals
actually exceeds the quality of the team). Despite that, I didn't think that
anyone would touch them in their home arena. I really thought that the home
field advantage was too great to overcome. I readily eat crow on that one.

I think the story of the elite teams one the women's side this year are the
teams that truly compete like a team (such as Alabama, Utah, LSU, and
Michigan) and the teams that have talent, but can't put it together with any
consistency (Geogia, who has great talent, and Florida, who has good talent).
Georgia and Florida both lost the SEC championship meet because they had to
count falls. Georgia apparently could have won or placed much higher if they
had been more consistent. It will be interesting to see next year whether
these differences in teams turn out to be philosophical, psyhcological, or
physical. I would love to hear any other information on the meet. Does any-
one have a perspective on the meet? Does anyone have any quotes (especially
from Yoculan, Marsden, or Patterson)?

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 18:30:20 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: PC [or MAC] Gymnastics

The programs that I know about are those that help manage different functions
surrounding gymnastics.

One of these is SMS, or School Management System. It's basically a relational
database customized for running a gymnastics academy.

Another is RABBIT SCORES, designed to help manage club and university meets.

I'm wondering, is the USAG planning on a WWW home page?

David

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 18:43:51 -0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Womens floor tumbling question

> "I read on Gymn a while ago that someone was wanting to see 'a
> side Arabian 1 & 3/4, but that's illegal by the code now.'. Does
> this mean that all tumbles must be landed on the feet now? I mean,
> all tumbles must be complete saltos, not like punch 1 & 1/4 (to
> land on front) or Arabian 1 & 3/4 (to land on back)?"

Yes, 1/4 and 3/4 are all out of the FIG Women's Code (except for dive
rolls and full-twisting dive rolls). You can do them if you want, but
they're not worth anything.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:07:04 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: NCAA Team Finals

>-- The start value is flashed alongside with the score for the routine after
it is completed.

This is a great idea that I would love to see used for all competitions.

>"An unintended consequence of Title IX" -- the goal of the CGA is to speak
positively and non-confrontationally about men's gymnastics in relation to
money-making and women's sports.

I'm interested to hear other opinions, but I find this phrase *highly*
confrontational...

Mara

"If Men's Gymnastics were easy, they'd call it NCAA Football"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:07:11 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Compos & PC Gymnastics

> I for one would sit in an uncomfortable arena chair watching
compulsories all day.

He**, I'd sit there for 10 days watching nothing but compos. They really
show who's tops in a way that optionals just can't.

>You had to stick a double Tsuk (tucked), hitting the board in the right
spot and pushing off the horse at the right angle in order to get a 10.0.
That's the only vault that would score a ten (not even a double front).

I had an old version of that (for my *Commodore*), and it took me about 2
months to get a 10.0 on that vault. <g>

Never saw Summer Games II, but would love a description of the uneven bars!!!

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:08:46 -0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject: NCAA WOmens

Date sent: 22-APR-1995 19:06:16

I don't wanna be a pest, but does ANYONE have ANY results from
the women's NCAA Division I National Championships? I mean
prelim results, team scores, events scores, indivuals scores,
and whatever else anyone could possibly find. I'm desparate to
know what was going on, and I also wanna know who made finals in
each event.

Jennifer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:53:57 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: NCAA WOmen's Championships

Here is an update from the Super Six.

Utah 196.650
Alabama 196.425
Michigan 196.425
UCLA 196.150
UGA 196.075
Oregon State 194.850


While Jim and I both left the meet sadden, it was none the less an exciting
meet as you can tell from the scores. Being the "Team Mother", I paid more
attention to UGA than anyone and can tell you how they did. I would say that
all of the girls had a good meet, though I was disappointed that Oregon
scores weren't higher. I "had" to watch the Beam and FX events for the first
two sessions and was very impressed with all the girls. Jenny Henson was a
thrill to watch. We knew after the first session, that she had once again
claimed the AA.

There is one story that I want to relate. Sitting in the stands for the
Super Six, a Utah fan was standing behind me while Utah was on the fx and UGA
was on the beam. Julie Ballard was up on the beam and suffered a fall. The
Utah fan started laughing. I turned around, and asked him "Would you laugh
if your daughter fell off the beam?" He replied "No" I answered with "Then
don't laugh when mine does!" The mans chin hit the floor and he did apoligize.


My only question is what happened to Good Sportsmanship. I know that alot of
the fans, yes GA too, were involved in this sort of poor sportsmanship and I
found it Very distasteful. How can we expect our gymnasts and our children to
be good sportsman when this is the example we are setting. As a former
gymnast, I was cheering for ALL the teams and for each girl. I wish that they
all could have won the AA. But is was a competition and someone had to go
home without a win.

Maybe Patrick or Robert can post some better views from the meet as they were
both there. I had the pleasure of meeting Patrick, but missed Robert!

Just my .02 worth,
Lori

------------------------------

End of GYMN-L Digest - 21 Apr 1995 to 22 Apr 1995
*************************************************