GYMN-L Digest - 15 Mar 1995 to 16 Mar 1995

There are 20 messages totalling 526 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Questions (2)
  2. Values of skills (2)
  3. "Different" Skills (was Re: More Scoring Etc) (2)
  4. Deva (was Re: Questions)
  5. bonus questions
  6. XXXVIII Romanian Int.Gym.Tournament
  7. Deductions for doing the same two tumbling passes
  8. gymnastics tour
  9. Very sad news (2)
 10. Korean Vaulters
 11. NCAA's
 12. Pan-Am Games Video???
 13. All 4 Event Finals at Worlds? (2)
 14. Roethlisberger at Pan Ams
 15. Cuban Men dominate Pan Ams EF


Date:    Wed, 15 Mar 1995 19:59:00 PST
Subject: Re: Questions

> Yeo-Hong Chuls' handspring 2 1/2  is worth the same as a
>1 1/2 ,  9.8  the last .2 saved for bonus
>In finals competition for Men two different vaults are required,
>taking the average of the two.
>if he does both a 1 1/2 and a 2 1/2 he would have two different
>max value vaults.
>The .2 bonus might also be given out more generously for the 2 1/2

But again, if he don't stick, he can't make up ground. Except that the
judges know him now.

Don't forget this guy can hit a Tsuk-double tuck, and gets peeved when he
doesn't stick it beyond the full-bonus line.

What's Korean nationals' vault final look like? Do they have to do 3
vaults? Geez.



Date:    Wed, 15 Mar 1995 23:17:49 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Questions

>I think someone posted a few months back that Rusan retired because of a
back injury.  Does anyone remember if that's right?

That's what I thought, but then she was in that picture in IG taken at



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 14:54:03 +1000
From:    ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Values of skills

Hi folks,

Sorry, but I couldn't go past Julius's remark about front tumbling....

> I realize that front tumbling was super value raised to increase
> its popularity.
> The code has been misused, but the Code's purpose of encouraging
> front tumbling has worked.

Why on earth did the FIG  want to increase the popularity of front
tumbling?  Is there any point to it?  Nobody I know likes to watch it (even
when it's done by Piskoun)  In fact I find myself fast-forwarding through
every FX since Barcelona (with the exception of Rusan & Podkopayeva)
thinking what has happened to real tumbling.  Gymnastics
usually progresses between Olympiads, but at this rate, the Atlanta
generation will go down as a joke. (Though the disapearance of the
USSR has alot to do with that!).

Wouldn't you like to know what Alfetia Priahkina is thinking now!  In
1987 her floor routine included a full-in full-out, a double layout
and a full-in!

And she still couldn't make a Soviet Worlds Team!!!!!!



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 01:10:48 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: "Different" Skills (was Re: More Scoring Etc)

: Split legs generally isn't supposed to be a different body position

Remember Bilozerchev (or was it Korolev? Neither of them could vault to save
their lives. Actually, I think, Yuri was the guy who did the one 1 armed Tsuk
and one with both arms and called them "different.")  in '87 vault finals? He
used to vault a split leg Tsukahara and then a regular one as his "second"
vault in finals. Of course, men can do two vaults from the same families
unlike women but to me that's pushing the "difference" pretty far.

Now I think that Gutsu's split leg double lay on floor is a *lot* more
distinctly different (and difficult) then those vault variations. Splitting
the legs totally effects the rotation and makes it so much harder to get
around. Not only that but didn't Gutsu once whip to that final double layout
('92 Euros I think) which would eliminate all questions of credit and

Anyway men used to be able to exactly repeat tumbling passes until this code.
Remember Wecker's rather pathetic mount/dismount tuck full-in? Women had to
whip to full-in mount and then full-in dismount or do them piked or tucked or
*some* variation to be legal.

The real point is, skills done in combination (eg. whip to full-in vs.
full-in) are considered "different" skills and don't  fall under the repeat
rule. As for Rustam's Tkatchev's (that he's no longer doing because he says
his "technique is off" which baffles me since, excepting toe point, he has
the best Tkatchev's in the world ...  BTW, now Korobchinskii is doing the
combo) he did 2 straddle Tkatchev's and then an immediate piked Tkatchev ...
that was  I assume to avoid the "no-more-then 2 rule."



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 01:11:50 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Deva (was Re: Questions)

: If what I heard is true that she has retired, then what is she still doing
: Deva?

Well I know that the girls often stay at Deva to finish school even after
their gymnastics careers end due to injury. That doesn't mean that this is
the case with Rusan (who I have heard nothing specific about recently) but it
is one possibilty.



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 07:27:00 UTC
From:    ***@GENIE.GEIS.COM
Subject: bonus questions

        Ah yes, Amanda, keep me on my toes (G).
        You are right - no bonus for a repeated D or E element even when
performed with a different connection before or after. (Technical Handbook,
p. 98, III D)  So, by FIG rules the whip to full-in and full-in would not
get seperate "D" bonus credit.  (+.10 - A indirect to D; +.10 D)
        However, if it is comp. III and these were the only two D's, they
would each get separate value part credit, or if it were Comp. II, one would
be THE D and the other could get bonus. (Tech Handbook p.76, III A)



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 09:50:40 -0500
Subject: Re: "Different" Skills (was Re: More Scoring Etc)

> The real point is, skills done in combination (eg. whip to full-in vs.
> full-in) are considered "different" skills and don't  fall under the repeat
> rule.

[Under the women's Code]
They (in this case, the full-ins) are *not* considered different skills
by virtue of being in a different combination, and they *do* fall under
the rule. They are different skills only if done in a different body
position.  Once you do the same skill more than twice, no matter what
combination it's in, you don't get credit for it.  So you couldn't do a
full-in in the same body position but in three different combinations
and get credit three times.  And as Kathy E. verified, you only get
extra D/E bonus *once*, no matter how many times you do a skill in how many
different combinations (however, you *can* get bonus for the three
different combinations).



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 11:36:32 -0500
From:    ***@INTERLINK.NET
Subject: XXXVIII Romanian Int.Gym.Tournament

The competition will take place in Ploiesti (60km from Bucarest) between
the 21st and 23rd of April and is one of the qualification tournaments for
the 4th EUROPEAN CUP in artistic gymnastics for men and women.

Nicolette Naum (casting director) and Claude Krespin (talent scout) will
probably attend for Cirque du Soleil and if so, informations we will
forward to GYMNLIST after the event.

Thank you,



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 13:44:04 EST5EDT
From:    ***@MERC.RX.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Deductions for doing the same two tumbling passes


    Under composition deductions there is an up to 3 tenth for
overuse of elements in the same family.  This has to do wether your
routine is well balanced.  Even the deduction is overlook all the
time it still there nevertheless.

University of Georgia
Go Bulldogs!!!!!
#1 Women Gymnastic Team in the USA


Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 08:32:00 PST
Subject: Re: Values of skills

>Wouldn't you like to know what Alfetia Priahkina is thinking now!  In
>1987 her floor routine included a full-in full-out, a double layout
>and a full-in!
>And she still couldn't make a Soviet Worlds Team!!!!!!

Yeah, but didja see her form? Explains a lot. (Hint: Kalinina's full-ins
were tidy by comparison.)

But the air sense on that kid ... wow. Interview question for Ostapenko
(her early coach), if anyone thinks of it. What else could she do?

Just in fun,


Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 14:04:23 -0500
Subject: Re: gymnastics tour

I have never been to any gymnastics competition or exhibition. Does
anyone know if any gymnastics exhibition or competition will be coming to
New York City or anywhere close by??
                                                  Beth =]


Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:00:53 -0500
Subject: Very sad news

I just heard that Stormy Eaton was killed in a plane crash yesterday.

-- Adriana


Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:00:00 PST
From:    ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Korean Vaulters

Yeo-Hong Chul is the best vaulter I have ever seen ever.  Easily.
In Chunichi once he tried to kick-out of his tsuk double! He landed
short, but wow...

Very few people even deserve to be in the same vault final as him..
Most of the people who do, are Korean as well...

As a side note, don't his eyebrows look like they were drawn
with a thick black magic marker...?

Thats why he is "Magic Marker Guy"


Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 18:46:12 EST
From:    ***@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: NCAA's

     Women's NCAA's are next month!  Any favorites?  Mine are
Georgia in the team competition and Lori Strong (UGA) in the all-



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 19:15:54 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Very sad news

>I just heard that Stormy Eaton was killed in a plane crash yesterday.

Unfortunately true.  Here's is his obituary from the AP.  I don't normally
forward a whole story for copyright reasons, but didn't feel I could chop
this one up.


PS One thing the obit does not include is that he was developing a successful
second career as an event announcer.  I was surprised to see him announcing
the 'Ice Wars' figure skating event in Uniondale NY a couple of months ago.

WINSLOW, Ariz. (AP) -- Mark Eaton, a former NCAA gymnast who became a
nationally known gymnastics coach, was killed when a small plane in which he
was a passenger snagged an electrical wire and cartwheeled onto a freeway
on-ramp. Eaton, an All-America in 1970-71, was 45.

Pilot Davis M. Ellis, 55, also died in the crash Wednesday.

Sheriff's Sgt. Kathy Paleski said Ellis was flying over a friend's home when
the plane became caught in the electrical wire. The wreckage settled on an
on-ramp and the eastbound lanes of Interstate 40.

Ellis had flown to Lake Powell -- on the Arizona-Utah border -- to help
Eaton, who coached Ellis' 12-year-old daughter in gymnastics, repair a boat,
authorities said. They were returning when they crashed.

Eaton opened Desert Devils Gymnastics Training Center in Scottsdale in 1974.
He was assistant coach of the U.S. women's gymnastics team in 1989, when he
was selected national women's coach of the year.

``He was one of the most popular coaches in our country and certainly the
most famous in Arizona,'' said Jon Aitken, a fellow coach. ``There are 5,000
former students that absolutely loved him.''

Eaton was a state gymnastics champion at Scottsdale High School and an NCAA
titlist at New Mexico. He won the NCAA floor exercise in 1971.

Eaton led New Mexico to Western Athletic Conference team titles in 1968, 1970
and 1971. He was the WAC champion in the floor exercise each of the four
years he competed for the Lobos.


Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 19:44:49 -0600
Subject: Pan-Am Games Video???

Hi everyone,

Is anyone out there taping coverage of Pan-Ams?  I need a copy of any and
all coverage (english and spanish), particularly women's at the moment.

Aside from the fact that I want to see it myself, a coach (of one of the
athletes competing in the games) contacted me who wants to see whatever he
can from the meet.  (We don't have any coverage in Canada ... bummer.)

If anyone out there can help me please contact me ASAP.  Thanks much.



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 21:14:48 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: All 4 Event Finals at Worlds?

Why do I doubt the following two comments from a recent AP article are

>    Miller, in overcoming these difficulties, had set a number of landmarks.

>    ``She is the first winner of the Pan-Am title at age 18 and the only
girl at a world championship to make all the event finals (in 1991),'' Nunno

>    He added that Miller was the only back-to-back world champion. She
retained her title in 1993.

Aside from his discarding Lyudmila Turischeva [who won back-to-back Worlds in
1970 and 1974]...

I know Shannon was not the first to make all 4 event finals at Worlds
[although she was the first American to do so - but that's not what Steve was
referring to].  The question to all of you is 'Who was the first to make all
4 event finals?'  I'm sure this probably goes back to the 1950s at least.

Any ideas, Gymners?



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 21:31:18 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Roethlisberger at Pan Ams

A few clips from the AP

"    MAR DEL PLATA, Argentina, March 14 (Reuter) - John Roethlisberger can
still emulate his father in Pan-American gymnastics, although the big one
escaped him.

    The young American fell just short on Monday of the all around men's
title which his father Fred -- his coach -- took in the 1967 games in
Winnipeg, Canada.

    Cuban Erick Lopez of Cuba proved too consistently good and retained his
title in a tight finish in which Roethlisberger scored 9.500 on the high bar
and 9.400 on the floor to edge into the silver medal position.

Fred Roethlisberger followed up his overall title in 1967 with gold on the
high bar, a tie for first place on the parallel bars, a tie for silver on the
rings and a triple tie for third on the vault. "

The article included various quotes from John, and finishes by saying that he
qualified for all 6 event finals.



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 21:32:02 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Cuban Men dominate Pan Ams EF

Severely pared clips from the AP

   By Rex Gowar

    MAR DEL PLATA, Argentina, March 15 (Reuter) - Cuba's Damian Merino and
Erick Lopez, the overall champion, won two gold medals apiece in individual
exercises in the men's gymnastics competition at the Pan-American Games on
Wednesday. "

The article goes on to say that Merino won both the rings and floor titles,
while Lopez won P bars & pommel horse

More from the AP:

"    Lopez won on the pommel horse and parallel bars. In Havana, where he was
also overall champion, it was vault and bars.

    There was a surprise in the vault, the fourth apparatus, which was won by
Venezuelan Victor Solorzano. "

John Roethlisberger won high bar and took silver on rings.


"Roethlisberger had the lowest score on the floor as Merino took first place
ahead of American Bill Roth with Kris Burley of Canada third. "

Other US medals:

Mihai Bagiu - silver pommel horse
Bill Roth - silver high bar

Anyone who wants the whole detail, e-mail me.



Date:    Thu, 16 Mar 1995 21:48:19 -0500
Subject: Re: All 4 Event Finals at Worlds?

It sounds to me like someone took Nunno out of context, because all his
remarks make perfect sense if limited to Americans.  Anyway, I don't know
all the Pan Am champs, let alone their ages, but way back when there's
gotta be 18-or-older champs.  Maybe even not that long ago -- was Orisel
Martinez the '83 champ?  How old was she then?  As for all four EF,
that's gotta go way back too (is there *any* chance Latynina *didn't*
make all four at some point?), but I'll just mention the relatively
recent accomplishment of Shushunova making *and medaling in* all four
events in '87 (gold V & FX, silver BB, bronze UB).



End of GYMN-L Digest - 15 Mar 1995 to 16 Mar 1995