GYMN-L Digest - 14 Mar 1995 to 15 Mar 1995

There are 24 messages totalling 799 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Pan Am Womens AA
2. technique (2)
3. Sports Illustrated
4. Values of skills
5. girls coach needed
6. Collegiate Gymnastics
7. Questions (6)
8. Misc
9. Girls Coach Needed - There is more
10. 1980 men's Polish Olympic Team
11. more scoring etc (2)
12. Hi!
13. Scoring
14. Deductions for doing the same two tumbling passes (2)
15. 1980 men's Polish Olympic
16. New Business

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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 23:59:31 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Pan Am Womens AA

The US Women swept the AA medals at Pan Ams, however, it was a very close
competition due tobeam problems by all three. Annia Portuondo was leading at
one point, before falling from UB to 4th.

Miller - Gold
Borden - Silver
Chow - Bronze

A few tiny blurbs from the AP [less than 5% of the piece]

``The balance beam is a strange animal,'' U.S. coach Steve Nunno
said. ``This time it bit us all in the butt.''

Borden, whose up-tempo routines drew cheers from the packed house,
nailed a 9.825 on the uneven bars. The Cincinnati native finished
second, just 0.012 points behind Miller.

In the final event, Miller played it safe with a solid vault. All Chow
needed was to clean the beam, but she managed only a 9.225 and watched
the gold evaporate.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 23:08:10 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: technique

>What about
the differnt mechanics of the twist? One of the reasons front tumbling
_should_ be rewarded is the difficulty of learning front twisting. I know
fro
personal experience that they at least feel different.<

Yes, front tumbling is difficult, but is it really on par with the
other skills of the same rating? Is a front-full *really* as
difficult as a piked full-in? Is a Rudi *really* as difficult as a
double layout, double-double, etc? There is no way it can be.
Everyone elite can throw a rudi dismount, or a rudi second pass, on
floor. How many gymnasts are dismounting floor with double layouts?
Double-doubles? Gutsu is the only one I've ever seen doing this
(double lay dismount on floor).

Sometimes I stop by the local gym and just watch the kids having fun.
I watch one class one night for awhile, and noticed one girl (14 or 15
maybe) doing front fulls. ("Let's do front-fulls!" she said.) But no
way could she do a full-in. She could not even approach a
double-back. This was the level 6 or 7 group, if I could tell by
their compos. I'm sorry, but a front full should not be rated the
same as a full-in. A Rudi should not be rated the same as a double
layout.

>(And if it were truly
the same, why haven't we seen more double fronts or front double fulls?)<

We haven't seen more of these difficult E moves because everyone is
throwing Rudi's up the ying yang and getting the same bonus. There is
no incentive to go for true E moves with this code. This code was
supposed to reward difficulty, but is has done nothing but the
opposite. One thing somes up this code: (they should have cancelled
gymnastics due to obvious lack of intelligence on part of the WTC) ff
layout ff being the same as ff layout-layout. Hah!

>Granted, coaches have long noted (I remember an article in the early '80's)
that little time is (used to be) spent on front skills; they simply weren't
as
'impressive'. What about on vault? A handspring 2 1/2 twist off is an
INCREDIBLY difficult vault.I honetly believe it is as difficult to learn as a
Yurchenko 2/1 twist.<

I don't recall anyone saying anything to the effect that all front
skills are easier than all backwards skills. Obviously that would be
ridiculous, a double front vault is harder than a Yurtchenko double
twist any way you look at it. A double front is harder than a double
back on any event. A front with a full is harder than a back with a
full. BUT IS A FRONT WITH A FULL AS HARD AS A FULL-TWISTING DOUBLE
BACK???? Of course not, and they should not be rated the same.

>As for the new compulsory vault of Yurchenko-1/2, Layout front: If done as
it
is described in the code, this is an INCREDIBLY difficult vault. But the,
how
many women actually complete the 1/2 PRIOR to the initiation of the layout
front? Most cheat into it like an Arabian.<

Right, and if it was a fair and just world, nobody would get the
credit for doing this vault wrong. Done correctly, this is a
potentially beautiful vault. But I wouldn't know, I don't think I've
seen it done correctly. Of course there is Podkopayeva, the Lord and
Saviour of the Hristekieva, but even she is a bit iffy on the twist.
But what judge will stand up and penalize the gymnast for doing this
vault incorrectly? I would have loved to seen it at worlds, Hatagan,
Miller, and Milo etc all getting deducted for calling the wrong vault
when they did their Yurtchenko 1/2 to front pike. Boy would the fit
have hit the shan then. This would never happen, and even I can't
blame the judges for not committing political suicide by attempting to
penalize. Like I said, in a perfect world they might, but until then
the safest thing to do is to devalue this vault that no one is doing
anyway, in the hopes of draining the pseudo-Hrist's out and getting
some real vaulting in.


>[I still like the Yurchenko-1/2
on, Front pike-1/2 off or Korchina's Y-1/2 on, pike Cuervo off. These are
some
complicated vaults!!!!!]<

Of course, now THESE are fab vaults. By the way, does anyone know when the
Omeliantchik was devalued to 9.9? It is listed as 10.00 in this code, and I
wasn't aware of changes taking effect prior to June of '95.

Amanda :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 23:09:27 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: Sports Illustrated

>I actually thought that, for SI, the piece on Shannon Miller was pretty
good.
The author really stood up for Shannon and warned people not to count her
out. I was very surprised by how supportive the author was towards her and
the sport in general!<

Did we read the same article? It was a typical uniformed-media slam
on gymnastics. It was the usual gymnastics article, criticizing the
sport when, after the young gymnasts "unfold their fragile wings" (gag
me) their careers are over "seemingly 24 hours later" and they are
replaced by the latest crop of stars. What was the title and caption
of this article? "Growing Pains: Shannon Miller is the latest in her
sport to learn that time takes its toll." I don't understand how
Shannon has learned that from the 95 American Cup. She fell off beam,
big deal, and it wasn't because of her age. I doubt she thinks that
is the reason. She won the American Classic last month against the
same field, with Moceanu in there as well. Where was the article
then?

Where was the positive article talking about her new skills and
routines and how good she looks? There was no article, because
gymnastics is not a serious enough sport to SI to cover it without the
negative angle. I get no information from this magazine about
gymnastics that I would not already have, and half of it is incorrect
anyhow. Borden is a big US star, being on the last two world teams
and the alternate for one, but she is described as being an
"unheralded oppenent" of Miller's. The quote from Nunno is wrong, the
same one was the in the local paper in Seattle and I think that one
was the correct one. Instead of him saying it was the first time she
has fallen off beam in competition in four years he said it was the
second time she had. (But that's wrong too, of course, but that may be
just Nunno, counting the two falls of beam at 93 Worlds EF as one
fall, and ignoring the two dismount falls (93 Worlds, 94 Nationals) as
she didn't really fall *off*, and he probably forgot she fell off at
93 Nationals EF). Anyway E.M. Swift does say not to count out Miller,
but the rest of the article (just look at the title!) seems to
contradict that point, especially with the ending, regarding Miller
and '96: "Time, and perhaps the sands of time, will tell." Gag, gag,
gag.

Amanda :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 02:20:46 -0500
From: ***@TIGER.HSC.EDU
Subject: Values of skills

I will have to agree with Amanda that the Code is a 'little' misguided
(my word, not hers). No, I don't think a front-full should be worth
the same as a piked-full in, but then remember the days of r.v. and
n.v.? Or inherent bonus? I actually liked those days because a skill
could be a C and receive +0.2 bonus points. Granted this system was
totally conufsing at times, but is the current one any better? I
liked how unusual skills received bonus, and especially how
originators of a skill received credit for performing that skill.

I realize that front tumbling was super value raised to increase its
popularity. I still remember when judges (and TV commentators) would
bemoan a gymnast who performed only front tumbling. She had no back
tumbling--remember Margaret Ulett? 2/1 twisting front first pass.
(Granted she was never very consistent with her other skills.) And
Neil Thomas? (Is this right?) He has a name on floor because of his
2/1 twisting front.

No, a front-full is not a full in, but just about every elite DID (or
DOES) a full-in. The code has been misused, but the Code's purpose of
encouraging front tumbling has worked. At the highest level, gymnasts
with the highest difficulty AND execution are rewarded accordingly.
[Albeit Piskun has had problems.] Judges know the difference--give us
some credit! :) And there are places to deduct outside of difficulty
if a gymnast has an over-predominance of a type of skill. [Yet how
often is this deduction taken? In theory Gutsu should be deducted for
performing a skill twice. Split leg does NOT qualify as a difference
in body position. And she only used back tumbling. But who on earth
would deduct? Or did?]

On the subject of judging, after watching the Georgia/Alabama meet
(Thank you Kathy!) I am again highly disappointed. To score in the
190's is unbelieveable. Once again nationals will be a joke. Can we
say 10.0 fest? Granted the girl who scored a 10.0 on floor had "no"
mistakes, but a 10.0? I remember one judge saying that college
judging = elite + 0.50. At least the men have it written into their
rules. Can you imagine? The top 6 collegiate women competing
against, oh, say the Romanians. Were they to keep up their scores,
how could we lose? :)

I realize that colleges are under pressure to keep their programs and
keep up attendance. But women's programs are no longer in (as much)
danger or folding. [Look at UCLA---it was a highly ranked program
that DID fold.] Must we keep up this barage of inflated scores?

Julius

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 10:51:24 GMT
From: ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Re: technique

Amanda wrote:

> We haven't seen more of these difficult E moves because everyone is throwing
> Rudi's up the ying yang and getting the same bonus. There is no incentive to
> go for true E moves with this code.

Haven't they downgraded the Rudi now? Or when will the code change take
into effect?

> Of course not, and they should not
> be rated the same.

There are so many skills in gymnastics that are different in
difficulty between one and the other, the FIG are trying to group them
into A to E but I guess when front tumbling started coming into the
question they weren't sure what to do with them and grade them as best
they could. I hope they're learning from experience and will adjust
the code accordingly (one hopes... I'm defending the FIG! Is this
coffee disgusting or what...)

If all the skills are rated differently and we'll have categories
F,G,H, etc. etc.

But of course they have some very wrong judgments as "front full"
rated the same as "full-twisting double back" that Amanda mentioned...

Sherwin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 08:55:08 +0500
From: ***@HEDLEY.EAST.SUN.COM
Subject: girls coach needed

I am posting the following for my daughters' gym, Pro Gymnastics
Training Center in Marlboro NJ. The girls program has been totally
revamped this year, and they are looking to finish building an all new
coaching team.

Leads and inquiries? Please respond to the phone number listed or to me
via private email...


GIRLS LEVEL 4 THRU * COACHING POSITION
PART-TIME
MUST BE RELIABLE, ENTHUSIASTIC, WORK WELL WITH STAFF
EXPERIENCE NECESSARY
HOURS AND PAY NEGOTIABLE

Thanks for the time, and if you know of anyone please let them know...

sheri

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 09:15:44 -0500
From: ***@TIGER.HSC.EDU
Subject: Collegiate Gymnastics

Don't get my wrong---I LOVE collegiate gymnastics! And I agree that
if a gymanst who performs only two passes, one a full twist receives a
9.7, a gymnasts with a full-in, double back, and 2/1 full dismount
should CERTAINLY receive a higher score.

If nothing else, I believe the RANKING of the gymnasts is usually
correct. My complaint is that by the time the best teams make it to
Nationals it becomes extremely difficult to separate the top gymnasts.
Schools that do not have a traditionally strong program suffer from
judging bias. [And don't tell me this isn't true. ANYONE who has
watched our sport knows this.] I'm not saying that it is impossible
to break onto the national scene. Quite a few 'upstart' :) programs
have qualified to nationals. And Jenny Hanson is an excellent example
of an individual who has been successful without the benefit of a
team.

My favorite aspect of collegetate gymnastics is the team competition.
One of the few comments ESPN made that I agree with is that for the
first time for many of these gymnasts they are truly competing as a
team. Especially at the elite level, gymnasts often train and compete
individually. Once they get to college the focus changes. Yes it is
important for the gymnasts to do well, but the team becomes more
important. Also, if the gymnast has a bad day, her teammates can
rally and compensate. I remember one meet at the U of Illinois
vs. Wisconsin when Wisconsin women placed 1-2-3 individually and
placed the majority of the individual event places but we (U of I) won
the meet.

As for the actual scoring rules--Sherwin is absolutely correct that it
is much easier to fulfill requirements at the collegiate level. The
rules for NCAA competition were written to keep the scores high. Once
again, like elites, the top gymnasts easily fulfill their requirements
while others scramble to find bonus connections. And trust me, even
at the collegiate level it can be very difficult to find some of that
bonus! My specialty is beam and unless the gymnast has superior
tumbling skills the special connection bonus can be a challenge.
[Unless the gymnast is an excellent dancer. Ever notice how many
switch-leap to straddle jump combinations are in routines? Or switch
leap to gainer back-handspring?]

Also, collegiate gymnast only do have 20 hours a week. While I
remember the problems that arose when this rule was implimented I
actually think it is better for the gymnasts. Collegiate gymnastics
is supposed to be a transition period where the gymnast learns that
there is more to life than gymnastics. Especially for elites and many
level 10's--the majority of their time has been spent training. By
the time they reach college their bodies are tired. Injuries happen.
Physical changes occur that make it more difficult to do gymnastcs
UNLESS they were able to train through the changes. Remember Missy
Marlowe? She was in better shape her senior year than when she was an
elite!

I will always continue to support collegiate gymnastics. I only wish
that there was a little more sanity and reasoning in the
oh-so-complicated art of judging. At ALL levels.

Julius

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 09:23:51 -0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Questions

> Is American gymnast Dominique Dawes planning to stick through 'til
> '96? The last I heard, she had accepted a scholarship to Stanford.
> If she is planning on Atlanta, it will be great to see how she goes.

I think that's the plan ('96 I mean). She had originally planned to
compete at Stanford, but now she's signed with an agent, so she is no
longer eligible for NCAA competition. But I think she's still going.
Btw, she currently is getting over a broken foot.

>
> How did the judges possibly evaluate Yeo-Hong Chuls' handspring 2 1/2
> twisting vault at the 94 asian Games? What is it's value in the Code
> Of Points? Surely it is harder than many other 9.8 vaults!

I couldn't find a handspring 2 1/2 twist. I found a handspring 2/1
twist, and that's a 9.90. So a 2 1/2 would be 9.90 or 10.0.

> Does anyone know the where abouts of Romanian sensation Claudia Rusan?
> Rusan made a splash at the 93 Junior Europeans and 93 Nikon
> International, but I have heard nothing of her since. Is she injured
> perhaps?

I think someone posted a few months back that Rusan retired because of a
back injury. Does anyone remember if that's right?

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 16:57:37 MET
From: ***@SEPA.TUDELFT.NL
Subject: Misc

Maybe it is a little late or already mentioned (NBC super channel
Europe, only showed the American cup this previous weekend)

Why does the cameraman has to take such a ridiculous position to show
a bar routine? Half of the moves you can't see.

What a good job Elfi Schlegel did, nice to see her back as a reporter
I saw her competing at the Ennia Gold cup in the early 80's and ever
since I am a big fan of hers

Does anyone know the whereabouts of Camelia Voinea?

Chantal,

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:15:23 +0500
From: ***@HEDLEY.EAST.SUN.COM
Subject: Girls Coach Needed - There is more

Folks I know I already sent this out, but I got a phone asking me to
change it to full or part time. Once again this is for a gym in
Marlboro New Jersey. It is a beautiful area (near the beach, lots of
fun stuff).

Anyway here it is again. Remember all leads/inquiries should phone the
number listed or contact me via PRIVATE email...

GIRLS LEVEL 4 THRU 8 COACHING POSITION
FULL/PART TIME
MUST BE RELIABLE,ENTHUSIASTIC, WORK WELL WITH STAFF, DEPENDABLE
EXPERIENCE NECESSARY
HOURS AND PAY NEGOTIABLE

This really is a great place, with a real "it's for the kids"
attitude. I wouldn't dream of putting my girls anywhere else
(locally), because I really like the attitude and style of the owners
and their coaching staff.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:18:02 +0500
From: ***@HEDLEY.EAST.SUN.COM
Subject: 1980 men's Polish Olympic Team

I know this sounds odd, but does anyone have the names for the above
(coaches and gymnasts)?

sheri

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 10:28:51 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: Questions

>
> > How did the judges possibly evaluate Yeo-Hong Chuls' handspring 2 1/2
> > twisting vault at the 94 asian Games? What is it's value in the Code
> > Of Points? Surely it is harder than many other 9.8 vaults!
>
> I couldn't find a handspring 2 1/2 twist. I found a handspring 2/1
> twist, and that's a 9.90. So a 2 1/2 would be 9.90 or 10.00.

Aren't all men's vaults maximum of 9.8? I believe that under the current
thinking (of course that's the same one that has a tucked double-double
equal to a layout double-double) the 2 1/2 twist would be 9.8, and the
other vaults devalued.


Amanda :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 10:37:05 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: more scoring etc

I lost the original post, but Julius said something to the effect that
Gutsu should have been deducted when she mounted and dismounted floor
with double layouts, because she repeated the skill, and that her
mounting with a split leg double-lay didn't count as different body
position from a double layout.

Well anyway I don't think this is right, because I don't believe there
is a deduction for repeating skills. How many times have you seen two
ff 1/4 in a beam routine? Milosovici for one, 93 world beam champ.
And a split-leg double layout is a different skill and would have a
different number and possibly value than a double layout. Also she
used to mount with a whip to double layout, and dismount with a double
layout. Many people have mounted with a whip to full-in and then did
another full-in. Silivas, Gogean, Miller, Stobvchataya etc too many
to name. I believe in men's gym the gymnast is allowed to do the same
skill twice but three times is a deduction, maybe it is four I don't
remember. That's why Rustam does his 15 Tkatchevs in exhibitions
only.

Amanda :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 15:04:39 -0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: more scoring etc

[all Code comments pertain to the women's Code]

> I lost the original post, but Julius said something to the effect that
> Gutsu should have been deducted when she mounted and dismounted floor
> with double layouts, because she repeated the skill, and that her
> mounting with a split leg double-lay didn't count as different body
> position from a double layout.

Split legs generally isn't supposed to be a different body position,
but I don't think it always holds. For example, a layout step-out on
BB is a C and a layout to 2 feet is a D, and I think in that case the
different layouts count separately under the rules for repeating
skills (see below):

>
> Well anyway I don't think this is right, because I don't believe there is
> a deduction for repeating skills. How many times have you seen two ff
> 1/4 in a beam routine? Milosovici for one, 93 world beam champ. And a
> split-leg double layout is a different skill and would have a different
> number and possibly value than a double layout. Also she used to mount
> with a whip to double layout, and dismount with a double layout. Many
> people have mounted with a whip to full-in and then did another full-in.
> Silivas, Gogean, Miller, Stobvchataya etc too many to name. I believe in
> men's gym the gymnast is allowed to do the same skill twice but three
> times is a deduction, maybe it is four I don't remember. That's why
> Rustam does his 15 Tkatchevs in exhibitions only.

You can do a skill as many times as you want, without deduction, but
you can only get value-part credit for it twice, and then only if it
is in a different combination (except on UB, where it can be in the
same combination or no combination). As for bonus, you can only get
bonus for an extra D or E, or a connection, once. But I'm having some
doubts now (maybe Kathy E. can clear this up). If a gymnast has a
whip to full-in and a full-in, assuming all other requirements are
fulfilled, does she get 0.1 or 0.2 for extra D's? She definitely gets
at least 0.1 for one of the full-ins, plus 0.1 for the whip to full-in
connection (of course, the smart thing to be safe is to do one tucked
and one piked, and then you're assured of 0.2 in extra D's). So the
point is, you can repeat skills, it just doesn't do you a whole lot of
good (at least if you do it more than twice).

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 15:19:38 EST
From: ***@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Hi!

Hello, folks. I am new to this forum, so I thought I'd tell you
something about myself. My name is Paul; I am 19 years old
and am a sophomore at the University of Georgia. I have been
interested in gymnastics for as long as I can remember. I wanted to
take lessons when I was younger, but my parents wouldn't let me. I
really got bitten by the gymnastics bug when I saw the team here at
school compete. I'm really not all that knowledgeable about the
technical aspects of the sport, but I know good gymnasts and routines
when I see them. I look forward to learning and contributing to this
forum.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 13:41:41 PST
From: ***@MCM.COM
Subject: Re: Questions

Yes, the maximum for men's vaulting is a 9.8 (with .2 coming from
heigth and distance.
Men's vaults are valued as 9.2, 9.5, or 9.8.
Examples:
9.2 : Hand front
9.5 : Lay-out Kasamatsu, Lay-out Tsukahara w/full
9.8 : Lay-out Kasamatsu with full (2 twists), Lay-out Tsuk double full.

I believe that a tuck Tsuk is a 8.9 value, laid out is 9.2.
--- Begin Included Message ---

>
> > How did the judges possibly evaluate Yeo-Hong Chuls' handspring
2 1/2
> > twisting vault at the 94 asian Games? What is it's value in the
Code
> > Of Points? Surely it is harder than many other 9.8 vaults!
>
> I couldn't find a handspring 2 1/2 twist. I found a handspring 2/1
> twist, and that's a 9.90. So a 2 1/2 would be 9.90 or 10.00.

Aren't all men's vaults maximum of 9.8? I believe that under the current
thinking (of course that's the same one that has a tucked double-double
equal to a layout double-double) the 2 1/2 twist would be 9.8, and the
other vaults devalued.


Amanda :-)
--- End Included Message ---

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:09:05 EDT
From: ***@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Questions

Yeo-Hong Chuls' handspring 2 1/2 is worth the same as a 1 1/2 , 9.8
the last .2 saved for bonus In finals competition for Men two
different vaults are required, taking the average of the two. if he
does both a 1 1/2 and a 2 1/2 he would have two different max value
vaults. The .2 bonus might also be given out more generously for the
2 1/2

In men's scoreing a value element can only be preformed twice, third
is a deduction. Some combinations of elements, can be grouped for a
higher value element. A front flip is a B, and a front,front is a
C. It is consitered one move, a different move from only one front.
so repetition would not apply

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 14:58:00 PST
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Scoring

In all truth, gymnastics is a lot more enjoyable if you learn to
ignore the scores.. learn not to look... I enjoyed American Classic
because I had no idea what the scores were... Don't look to gymnastics
as a sport, but as a mode for self-expression... This is the lesson I
learned after the worlds longest scAM cup, I mean the indianapolis
worlds of 91... Yes, gymnastics is political.. yes, there is always
someone who is overscored, someone who is underscored, etc
etc... However in Indy I had the opportunity to see gymnasts like
Miriam deTena, and Svetlana Todorova and Li Yan.. gymnasts who really
contributed to gymnastics in different ways.. but who don't get the
scores their work merits.. and who dont get much recognition.. but I
will always remember their performances .. sometimes in class I giggle
for no reason and it is for some stupid thing I saw like that Mexican
gymnast in compulsories who chalked his armpits before floor
(?).. anyway, I digress, but thats ok. Im allowed to.. anyway, look at
the performances, not the scores.. then you are never really
disappointed.. . unless of course you are forced to watch Romania on
bars.. thats a joke.. ok.. no hate mail..


P.S. underrated gymnast of the week: Diana Dudeva

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 16:29:53 -0700
From: ***@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU
Subject: Deductions for doing the same two tumbling passes

I remember that there was a deduction for doing the same
tumbling pass twice (extra handsprings, whips, and fronts, etc. don't
count - has to be _exactly_ the same) in a floor routine in 1990,
because Brandy Johnson received one for her optional routine in AA
finals at 1990 Nat'l Champs. Her second and third passes were both RO,
HS tucked double back. She left out a tucked full-in for her second
pass...
Regarding Amanda's comment about Gutsu's tumbling at the 1992
Olympics, she was competing a whip to double layout as a first pass in
'91 and on into '92, but at the Olympics she was competing a funky
"split leg" double layout on the first pass with no whip-back. IMHO,
she should've recieved the deduction for form on that pass, not for
repeating the skill. (Now then, if Podkopayeva were competing the
trick, _she_ wouldn't have form deductions... :-) )

Cara
------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 00:51:15 GMT
From: ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Re: Questions

> I think someone posted a few months back that Rusan retired because of a
> back injury. Does anyone remember if that's right?

That was me. I am a bit puzzled though when I saw in Feb's _IG_ and
there was Nadia returning to Romania, there was a photo taken in Deva
showing Nadia with Milo, Gogean Bican, Hatagan AND Rusan! If what I
heard is true that she has retired, then what is she still doing in
Deva? I hope she's still going. (But then she could've "un-retired",
as a few had done...)

Rusan's last international competition that I know was Nikon Grand
Prix'93 in Brisbane, Australia.

Sherwin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 19:51:23 -0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Questions

>
> >
> > > How did the judges possibly evaluate Yeo-Hong Chuls' handspring 2 1/2
> > > twisting vault at the 94 asian Games? What is it's value in the Code
> > > Of Points? Surely it is harder than many other 9.8 vaults!
> >
> > I couldn't find a handspring 2 1/2 twist. I found a handspring 2/1
> > twist, and that's a 9.90. So a 2 1/2 would be 9.90 or 10.00.
>
> Aren't all men's vaults maximum of 9.8? I believe that under the current
> thinking (of course that's the same one that has a tucked double-double
> equal to a layout double-double) the 2 1/2 twist would be 9.8, and the
> other vaults devalued.

Oops, sorry, I was thinking of women's.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 20:05:43 -0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Deductions for doing the same two tumbling passes

> I remember that there was a deduction for doing the same tumbling
> pass twice (extra handsprings, whips, and fronts, etc. don't count - has
> to be _exactly_ the same) in a floor routine in 1990, because Brandy
> Johnson received one for her optional routine in AA finals at 1990 Nat'l
> Champs. Her second and third passes were both RO, HS tucked double back.
> She left out a tucked full-in for her second pass...

There used to be that deduction in old Codes. I'm pretty sure the
deduction doesn't exist anymore. But now extra ff's don't make
for a different pass, so you can't do ro,ff,full-in and ro,ff,ff,full-in
and claim two D's.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 01:35:00 UTC
From: ***@GENIE.GEIS.COM
Subject: 1980 men's Polish Olympic

>does anyone have the names for the above (coaches and gymnasts)?

Poland didn't send a entire men's team to Moscow, but the individual
gymnasts were:

Andrzej Szajna
Waldemar Wozniak
Krzysztof Poraczek

Sorry, but I don't know who the coaches were.

Debbie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:10:20 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: New Business

Hi everyone! My name is Sandy, and I live in LA. I have a daughter who
competes at Level 6 and my son is just getting into it. I am also a
gymnastics judge. I have helped coach my daughter for the past five
years and
I really enjoy working with her. So instead of driving the distance
I have decided to open my own Gymnastics Club. I know that it is not
easy and have really given this alot of thought. I am in the process
of finding out everything it takes to run the business and am looking
for any resources to help me get started. If anyone is interested I
would appreciate any advice.
Especialy how to avoid stepping on other gym toes. You can E-mail me
at CLANOF6@AOL.COM

Thanks
Sandy

------------------------------

End of GYMN-L Digest - 14 Mar 1995 to 15 Mar 1995
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