GYMN-L Digest - 13 Mar 1995 to 14 Mar 1995

There are 13 messages totalling 340 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. code questions (2)
  2. H-front w/full turn
  3. getting the digest
  6. Club Gymnastics
  7. Misc
  8. Men's gymnastics
  9. gymnastics tour
 10. pan am  results?
 11. Technique
 12. Self-intro


Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 21:41:07 -0700
From:    ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: code questions

- a half-in half-out off bars (Tsukahara) is a D I think, though I couldn't
find it in the code
-a full-out (Chusovitina) off bars is an E
-I saw a gymnast do a full-out on floor at '89 USSR Nationals, and an
American gymnast did one at '94 USAIGC Nationals.  Chusovitina also did it on
floor at 91 and 92 Worlds, but never got credit for it and it is not in the
code.  I'd guess it would be an E in this code
-I've NEVER heard of anyone doing a double back half-out, though this would
be extraordinarly cool.  I'd guess it would be rated an E also.

Hope this helps

Amanda :-)


Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 21:44:38 -0700
From:    ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: H-front w/full turn

> Y'know, what I wanted to know is what they call that move when you dismount
> and land flat on your butt.

That's butsu, and it applies not only to dismounting but any move where
the butt goes smack.

> Also, I want to know what they call the move when you miss the high bar and
> land flat on your face.

That's "facing it."

Amanda :-)

PS This should be in the FAQ.


Date:    Mon, 13 Mar 1995 23:53:26 -0500
From:    ***@DELPHI.COM
Subject: getting the digest

    Just got back from San Diego ( Holiday Classic ) so my brain is a little
fried, sorry if this has already been covered, but... Since you have
changerd to a real listserver I now get Gymn as regular email instead of the
digest how do I switch it back? I had 73 email messages when I got home!
Besides, the digest form is easier to upload to my BBS. HELP!
    The San Diego meet was pretty good. Desert Devils won the meet ( I still
don't understand the scores they get for some of the garbage they throw and
call gymnastics, but anyway..) Gymagic was second and third. You needed a
9.4 or better to place on almost any event! Amy ingo from DD won AA ( I
still find that hard to believe ) and Heidi Moneymaker from Rohnert Park was
second, both at 37+. I know that DD went 112+, we went 110.075 and went 5th!
Tough meet, good competition. Sorry I didn't see more, I WAS busy. Maybe
someone else has more info.


Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 00:28:08 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM

I actually thought that, for SI, the piece on Shannon Miller was pretty good.
 The author really stood up for Shannon and warned people not to count her
out.  I was very surprised by how supportive the author was towards her and
the sport in general!


Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 07:45:59 EST

> I actually thought that, for SI, the piece on Shannon Miller was pretty good.
>  The author really stood up for Shannon and warned people not to count her
> out.  I was very surprised by how supportive the author was towards her and
> the sport in general!

I don't know if Steve Nunno's comment was taken out of context or what
but he said that Shannon's fall off of beam was the first time it has
happened in four years.  I'm sure it was the first time it has happened
at the American Cup but in general, Steve must have a selective memory
because I certainly recall a couple of falls from the beam.

The article also referred to Amanda as a relative unknown - she might
not have all the medals that Shannon does but compared to Kristy, who
they also called a relative unknown, she has a ton of experience.
They did had a cool picture of Kristy's bar mount thought.



Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:08:29 -0500
Subject: Re: code questions

As someone mentioned a few days ago, Keri Monahan of Stanford also
has competed a full-out on FX.  Amanda said she'd guess it's an E, though
it's not be found in the Code.  I know the Code is wacky, but a layout
full-out is an E, so a tucked one might be considered a D.  But then,
it's not that way on bars.  As to a half-in half-out off bars, I
remember it being pointed out to us (in my judging course) that it's the
same as a full-in (D).  I suppose the same would hold for FX.



Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:22:36 PST
From:    ***@MCM.COM
Subject: Re: Club Gymnastics

Don't forget that UCLA is a club team now, also.

--- Begin Included Message ---

I am on the varsity team at MIT which is
Divsion III but we compete agenst some club Teams

We see Dartmouth at a few meets, which is a club Team
SUNY Cortland's club team was at ECACs.
There was an indivudal from Boston U. who competed at New Englands

Other schools with clubs that I know of, are

U. Washington, Miami Dade, Arizona State,
UC Davis, Sacramento State, Cal Poly, Kansas State,
Texas Austin, SW Texas.

They have had Teams or Individuals at USAG Collegiate Nationals

--- End Included Message ---


Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 12:27:00 PST
From:    ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Misc

Has anyone yet to equal Chusovitina's stunning thomas hop to full-out
off bars she did at Indy?  It was way saz...

Yes, landing on your butt is called butsu, but if you do a dismount
extra high, and have way too much time to spot the ground so you
mess up and take one or two big steps. its called "Chinese-ing"

However, if it happens in rhythmic (you have too much time to
spot the club in the air) its a "luky"

I want to make a pilgrimage to Vienna to see Lukyanenko this fall
(schedule permitting).. anyone else going?

Is Ekaterina Vandisheva still broken?

OH, and Nancy.. Bogy called hers a Cuervo to honor the crazy
Cuban gymnast who invented it... :)


Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:52:22 PST
From:    ***@MCM.COM
Subject: Re: Men's gymnastics

Cal just got back from the Santa Barbara Invitational.  #1 Nebraska,
#3 Ohio, and #4 Oklahoma were all there.  Cal won the meet.  It
might have something to do with slightly elevated scores in the prairie
and Midwest.  Cal's team score was consistent with what they have
been scoring all year, while Nebraska and Ohio's team scores went
down a bit from judges on the coast.

I was not personally at the meet, but I spoke with the assistant coach
about how they did.  It sounds like they are starting to get more consistent
performances from their youngsters.  Some of the highlights from the

--Puf stuck his Kasamatsu half for a 9.5 (1.5 twists/9.8 vault).
--Josh Berkelbaw nailed his pommels for a 9.8.
--Great performances from Brycen Counts, Andrew Mason, David Kruse,
  and Steven George.  Really too much to mention here (especially since
  I wasn't even there).

As far as the masked gymnasts... there are two of them that are on
a show called BEAR TERRITORY, that two cal grads,chris & steve,
produce.  It was a
weekly show during football season and basketball season.  The show
is kindof like a wayne's world for cal athletics.

Cal '93
--- Begin Included Message ---

Anyone have results, info on Cal. Berkeley?
How about the video series about the "Masked Gymnast?"  The name might
not be
accurate, but I understand some of the gymnasts have made videos with
gymnasts as the super heroes....:-)
--- End Included Message ---


Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 17:13:21 -18521200
Subject: gymnastics tour

To all the gymners,
        The Chicago Tribune yesterday had an ad for
a "Gold Gymnastics Tour".  It's at 7 p.m. on April 7,
to be held in the Alumni Hall at DePaul University.
Scheduled gymnasts to appear are Nadia, Bart, Kim
Zmeskal, Boginskaya, Milosovici, Paul Hunt, Gogean,
Moceanu, Durham, Mogilny, and Hatagan.  Ticket
prices are 14.50, 18.50, and 35.00.  You can call
312-464-0838 to order tickets.



Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 17:27:40 EST
From:    ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: pan am  results?

does anyone know the results from the team and indiv. womens I must
deleted them or something.also someone was saying something about Scott
keswick getting injured during compul. has anyone heard anything about
that ?


Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 17:57:56 -0500
From:    ***@TIGER.HSC.EDU
Subject: Technique

Since the current discussion is about technique, how about these questions:

Barani-out vault        Brandy Johnson
Front pike with 1/2     Henrietta Onodi
Cuervo pike             Svetlana?  I always thought she twisted too late.

Johnson was a clear barani out--you can tell from her flight and the type and
time of twist.  [My flame retardant suit is now on.]  Good block of the horse,
initiation of front salto prior to the 'barani' out.

Onodi--harder to judge.  Her twist was always a little in between, but
certainly after a Cuervo and of a different technique than the barani.  So lets
call it a front pike 1/2 out.

Boginskia--Hmmmm......I honestly think that she twisted WAY too late for it to
be called a Cuervo, but who am I to judge?  ;)  If you look at a picture of a
men's layout Cuervo, you'll know exactly how early the twist is.  A Cuervo
_should_ be a handspring on, 1/2 turn, back flip.  There should be no rotation
during the salto portion of the vault.

I believe that different skills with different types and techniques of twisting
should be classified as different tricks.  A Full-in, 1/2 in-1/2 out, full out,
Arabian double 1/2 out are all differnt skills and should be evaluated
individually.  Is it really fair to rate the Arabian double 1/2 out the same as
a tucked full-in even though both have 2 saltos and a single twist?  What about
the differnt mechanics of the twist?  One of the reasons front tumbling
_should_ be rewarded is the difficulty of learning front twisting.  I know fro
personal experience that they at least feel different.   (And if it were truly
the same, why haven't we seen more double fronts or front double fulls?)

Granted, coaches have long noted (I remember an article in the early '80's)
that little time is (used to be) spent on front skills; they simply weren't as
'impressive'.  What about on vault?  A handspring 2 1/2 twist off is an
INCREDIBLY difficult vault.I honetly believe it is as difficult to learn as a
Yurchenko 2/1 twist.  And with the Yurchenko, if you have the after flight in
the salto, the additional twisting is a better of correct technique.  A front
handspring 2 1/2 twist has no additional power from the run (no round-off), a
differnt technique in block, and no 'extra' height from a salto.  [Ok---I KNOW
I'm going to be hit for these comments.]

As for the new compulsory vault of Yurchenko-1/2, Layout front:  If done as it
is described in the code, this is an INCREDIBLY difficult vault.  But the, how
many women actually complete the 1/2 PRIOR to the initiation of the layout
front?  Most cheat into it like an Arabian.  [I still like the Yurchenko-1/2
on, Front pike-1/2 off or Korchina's Y-1/2 on, pike Cuervo off.  These are some
complicated vaults!!!!!]



Date:    Tue, 14 Mar 1995 20:44:47 -0400
From:    ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Self-intro


My name is Simon and I'm a 18-year-old freshman biology major at Cornell
University.  My gymnastics experience is limited to the small amount of
stuff I learned in phys. ed. a long time ago, but I became an avid viewer of
the sport around the time of the '88 Olympics.  Right now I'm a fan of
Kim Zmeskal (still good despite the ups and downs), Shannon Miller, Dominique
Dawes, Lavinia Milosovici, and Gina Gogean.
I'm really glad this service exists on Internet, because (from what I've
seen in the digests) it provides more and better info than the regular
media, and has a lot of input from many different people on a great sport.

End of GYMN-L Digest - 13 Mar 1995 to 14 Mar 1995