GYMN-L Digest - 11 Mar 1995 to 12 Mar 1995
There
are 21 messages totalling 593 lines in this
issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Elieen
Diaz/Dom M. pro (2)
2. UF-'Bama-Kentucky Women's
3. H-front w/full turn (5)
4. Employment Opportunity
5. Discrepencies
in "naming" moves (3)
6. Reese's Cup
7. Mary
Lou make-up
8. Messe Cup (3)
9. Reese's on TV
10.
Stanford-U of Ill UC accident
11. Handspring front with a full (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 11 Mar 1995
23:09:04 -0500
From:
***@AOL.COM
Subject: Elieen Diaz/Dom M.
pro
Is the Elieen Diaz ranked 19th in the PanAm games from Peru?
She competed in
the AmCup
for Puerto Rico, is this the same person.
Also, for Dom M. being
professional-didn't they recieve money for the
Danskin Gold
spectacular? I remember them
saying something about gymnasts
earning a living
from it of getting money? I will
check my tape.
Anne
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 23:30:42
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
UF-'Bama-Kentucky Women's
To All:
It was billed in the media as the
"SEC Showcase," but when the star-studded
meet
in Gainesville between Florida, Alabama and Kentucky was over, the
showcase became a suitcase as all of the teams wanted to get
out of the
auditorium and put the meet behind
them.
Watering down routines,
counting a fall and watching teammate Meredith
Willard hobble away with a
sprained ankle after floor warm-ups, Alabama went
on
to win, earning a 195.525 to defeat Florida (194.55) and Kentucky
(190.600).
"How do they say it in
basketball?" Alabama Coach Sarah Patterson said
afterwards.
"Ugly? Yes, that's it, we won ugly."
With 19 falls in the meet, none of the teams
looked particularly clean.
Alabama was coming off a huge win over Georgia
the week before and seemed
flat. For the Gators,
fatigue was blamed as it was their third meet in
10
days. And Kentucky had somewhat of a
"B" beam on the floor, resting up stars
in
preparation for the SEC tournament two weeks later.
For the Gators, who counted three falls,
the meet was particularly painful
because it could
have been the team's first win over Alabama since the late
1980s. "We
need to forget this meet," Gator Coach Judi Avener
said. "What's
behind us needs to stay behind
us."
Florida's Kristen
Guise won the all-around with a school record 39.625, and
she also won beam and floor with a 9.95. Alabama's Stephanie
Woods took the
bars title with a 9.95.
And in what is one of the most
spectacular elements being thrown in
college,
Kentucky's Jenny Hansen won the vault title with a 10 by throwing a
handspring-front tuck with a full twist. Hansen is the first
collegian to
throw that vault and is believed to
be only the second gymnast in history to
successfully
throw that element.
-- Ronald
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 05:50:00
UTC
From: ***@GENIE.GEIS.COM
Subject:
Re: H-front w/full turn
>Tell me, does anyone know of anybody
else throwing this vault?
Risa Sugawara
(JPN) did the vault at the '94 Asian Games, but I don't know
if she was the first woman to do it.
Debbie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 01:35:09
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Employment Opportunity
Attention experienced gymnastics professional
instructors:
Enjoy Teaching in
a successful and growth focused NON-COMPETITIVE
gymnastics business who's philosophy is to develop a child's
self-esteem by
providing success experiences with
a focus on FUN.
Great pay and benefits (including medical plan and up
to one month vacation
per
year) to qualified individuals.
Located in the Los Angeles area, this
ten year old business is expanding and
requires
career minded people who enjoy working with children.
For more
information please e-mail a responce.
Thank
you.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 04:22:39
-0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject:
Re: H-front w/full turn
> Afterwards, the coaches were
saying she is only the second gymnast in
history
to throw that vault (the other being the originator of the vault). In
my story that I'm going to write, I'm going to say that
Hansen is "believed
to be" only the
second in history to throw it.
Tell me, does anyone
know of anybody else throwing this vault? And a
question
to the judges on Gymn: who originated this
vault?<
I
doubt Hansen is only the second person to do this vault. An
unidentified
Soviet girl (and thus I doubt she was the originator of the
vault, as if I couldn't recognize her then I don't believe
she could have
competed at a Worlds or Olympics)
did it at '89 Soviet Nationals. I
saw a
gymnast do it at the Fiesta Bowl Invite in
Tempe last month, and
Tarasevich is doing it as
well (see my future post). I doubt
Hansen's
coaches could have done very much
research into this vault but are just
trying to
get that much more acclaim for her.
Which is in my view moot
because it is such
a hard and RARE vault anyway, especially in the NCAA
when
a pike front is worth the same. By
the way, in the code the
vault is # 2.505 but
there is no gymnast accreditited.
Amanda
:-)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 04:24:44
-0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject:
Discrepencies in "naming" moves
After American Classic there was a big thing going about Chow's
tumbling
pass, which was labeled by some as an
Arabian double-front barani-out. A few
people jumped in and questioned whether or not it was a
half-in half-out.
Well I saw
her do it at American's Cup, and so now I'd like to put my $.02
in.
While Chow delays her final twist considerably, so it could be
called an Arabian double front 1/2, something people are
overlooking is
that an Arabian double front with a
half twist IS a half-in half-out!
An
Arabian double front is a double salto
with a half twist on the first
salto
(half-in) and the second salto goes foward. Well if
you add another
half twist on the second salto, no matter how delayed, it's still a 1/2 in
1/2
out.
Also, IG called Tarasevich's handspring
front-full vault a Cuervo
1/2 out, but 1/2 a
twist and 1/2 a twist make a full twist.
Delaying the
second twist is a different
technique, but it is imho extremely tedious to
go around naming certain moves as new because of different
techniques.
Like, Kochetkova could appeal to the
WTC to name her "Rulfova" after her
because hers does not look like everyone else's. If you look at it
closely,
it is more like a back dive 3/4 twist to a 1/4 twist swing down.
Her ff full is the same way kinda (back dive 3/4 cartwheel down).
So
Chow (or whoever) might very well claim that the different
technique on the move makes it harder, and if the WTC
agreed, we would
have half the gymnasts in the
world throwing full-twisting double backs
and
claiming they were E moves.
By the way didn't Yulia
Kut have cool bars.
Amanda
:-)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 10:15:44
-0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject:
Re: Reese's Cup
> Oh man, was I disappointed to realize that the Reeses Cup was
> "professional"
gymnastics. But as it turned out, it
wasn't so
> bad (read, not as bad as the first
time I saw pro gymn).
>
> But what does
it mean to be a professional, and how does Dom M.
> fit
in?
Being a professional means you can get prize money plus appearance
fees,
endorsements and the rest. International competition allows for it
in
some way (anyone know what exactly the rules
are?), so it's not
properly called
"amateur" anymore (I'm guessing this is what you're
wondering about) and therefore Dom M. can do it, but NCAA
doesn't allow
it, so gymnasts looking to do that,
such as Amanda Borden, have to turn
down the
$$. Why the meets that have always
been on the "amateur" tour
and have
prize money (and/or appearance fees or whatever) aren't
referred
to as "professional" meets, I don't know. I guess that has
something
to do with the different rules and the "show" emphasis of the
"pro" meets, since the "amateur" meets follow
Worlds and Olympics rules
and Worlds and Olympics
are genuinely amateur meets (except for the $
countries
are willing to pay athletes who medal).
But imho, what makes
the
difference is money and not rules, so there is more pro gym around
than actually is recognized and promoted as such.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 10:18:27
-0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject:
Re: Elieen Diaz/Dom M. pro
> Is the Elieen Diaz ranked 19th in the PanAm
games from Peru? She competed
in
> the AmCup for
Puerto Rico, is this the same person.
There was a mistake in the
results, where they wrote "Peru" everywhere
that
it was supposed to say "Puerto Rico". So to answer your question,
yes, this is the same person, and she is competing for
Puerto Rico, not Peru.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 10:54:13
-0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject:
Re: H-front w/full turn
For some reason, vault is one place in the
(women's) Code where skills that
haven't been
performed yet in World or Olympic competition are listed (for
example, handspring double front and Tsuk
double back are both listed,
though no female
gymnast has done them at Worlds or Olympics). I don't
know
whether someone's name will be added when they're finally
performed at one of these meets. As Amanda said, a handspring front full
is
listed, but without a name. I don't remember hearing of this
being
done at Worlds or Olympics, so that could
explain the absence of a name,
but as Debbie and
Amanda pointed out, it has been done elsewhere.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 10:44:15
-0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject:
Re: Discrepencies in "naming" moves
>
After American Classic there was a big thing going about Chow's
tumbling
>
pass, which was labeled by some as an Arabian
double-front barani-out. A few
> people jumped in and questioned whether or not it was a
half-in half-out.
> Well I
saw her do it at American's Cup, and so now I'd like to put my $.02
> in.
>
While Chow delays her final twist considerably, so it could be
> called an Arabian double front 1/2, something people are
overlooking is
> that an Arabian double front
with a half twist IS a half-in half-out!
An
Actually, that wasn't overlooked at all. On the contrary, it was precisely
what we were discussing.
> Arabian double front
is a double salto with a half twist on the first
>
salto (half-in) and the
second salto goes foward. Well if you add another
> half twist on the second salto, no
matter how delayed, it's still a 1/2 in
> 1/2 out.
>
Also, IG called Tarasevich's handspring
front-full vault a Cuervo
> 1/2 out, but 1/2 a
twist and 1/2 a twist make a full twist.
Delaying the
> second twist is a
different technique, but it is imho extremely tedious
to
> go around naming certain moves as new
because of different techniques.
> Like, Kochetkova
could appeal to the WTC to name her "Rulfova"
after her
> because hers does not look like
everyone else's. If you look at
it
> closely, it is more like a back dive 3/4
twist to a 1/4 twist swing down.
> Her ff full
is the same way kinda (back
dive 3/4 cartwheel down).
>
So Chow (or whoever) might very well claim that the different
> technique on the move makes it harder, and if the WTC
agreed, we would
> have half the gymnasts in
the world throwing full-twisting double backs
> and
claiming they were E moves.
I agree it can get to splitting hairs, but
there are some circumstances
in which there's a
legitimate difference. If, as you
say, a Cuervo 1/2
is the
same as a handspring front full, does that then mean that a Cuervo
and a handspring front 1/2 are the same too? The difference between an
arabian double front-1/2 and a
1/2-in 1/2-out is not so much the delay on
the
final 1/2, as you seem to be saying, but the delay on the first 1/2.
It's
one thing to do a 1/2 twist followed by a front flip and another
thing to do a back flip with a half. We can all tell the difference
between a simple back with a half and an arabian. That's also the
difference
between a layout Yurchenko 1/2 and a Hristakieva. I
don't
think I've ever seen a gymnast twist early
enough on a Hristakieva, but
theoretically,
anyway, we're talking about two different vaults with a
genuine
difference in difficulty. Is a
Comaneci dismount with a full
twist the same as a
toe-on front with 1-1/2 twist? I
don't think so.
The problem is whether we can trust a human eye to see what
was done in
borderline cases. And to admit what they saw rather than
claim a gymnast
did the harder skill when she
really didn't.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 13:39:20
-0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject:
Discrepencies in "naming" moves
| called an Arabian double front 1/2, something people are
overlooking is
| that an Arabian double front with
a half twist IS a half-in half-out!
An
Well, as Adriana said, we didn't overlook it, in fact we
were
discussing precisely that fact -- since there
is a 1/2 twist in and a
1/2 twist out, isn't it just a half-in
half-out. I personally don't
think so because to me, a 1/2 in 1/2 out has continual
twisting motion
-- when tucked it's as if the
gymnast is rolling through the air. Chow
distinctly
separated both halves of the twist.
Rachele
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 15:28:00
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Mary Lou make-up
Just got back from shopping and saw a big display
featuring Mary Lou Retton.
It was for Natural Glow lip balm--I
bought a container of Cherry Mint and it
works
pretty well.
Ann Marie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 17:56:44
GMT
From: ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject:
Messe Cup
Messe
Cup, Hannover, Germany
11th March, 1995
================================================
This
is a team meet and is in similar format to Mixed Pairs except that
this has got rhythmic gymnasts taking part as well,
therefore each team
had three gymnasts competing
(man, woman and rhythmic) and the total
score
counts as the final score for the team.
Results:
1. World
Team
(
Lavinia Milosovici,
Ivan Ivankov, Larissa Lukianenko
) 85.149
2.
European Team
( Liliya Podkopayeva,
Ralf Buchner, Elena Vitrichenko ) 84.587
3.
Germany
( Rufina Kreibich,
Marius Toba, Magdalena Brzeska )
84.374
4. Russia
( Eugenia Kusnezsova,
Dimitri Trusch, Amina Zaripova )
84.237
5. Bulgaria
( Elena Todorova, Krasimir Dounev, Diana Popova )
80.561
6. Hungary
( Eszter Ovary, Csaba Fajkusz, Andrea Szalay )
79.587
Bits:
Liliya Podkopayeva has a "new" floor,
it's more upbeat and similar to
the Arabian one
she did during the early part of 1994. In fact I'd say
it's
like "Arabian part 2" since her gestures are so similar, though
not exactly the same.
Eugenia Kusnezsova
looked a very good Russian, her bars was cool:
full-twisting
hop into Geinger; high Jaeger; double layout
dismount.
She's probably too young for Dortmund'94?
Dmitri Trusch I haven't seen before, but it's another one of
those
cool, calm (OK, except Voropaev)
young Russians.
Larissa Lukianenko looked
the same as ever but did not have a good,
dropping
her club and ribbon in the process.
Ivan Ivankov
was very very good (as if I'm surprised),
sticking
everything he did.
Lavinia Milosovici is Lavinia Milosovici... she put her
hands down
on her triple twists in her final
tumble on the floor though.
Magdalena Brzeska
stood a head taller than Marius Toba when they
were
standing together waiting for the scores. Magdalena padded
Marius on the
head and Marius made a face and tried standing on
tip-toe.
It was a funny moment :) Rufina Kreibich
was standing
even shorter by the side of
Marius.
Lavinia Milosovici
gave an interview on TV! (Haven't seen one
before)
She spoke in Romanian and the commentator translated it
into
German... thus haven't a clue what they're talking about!
Ivankov did his interview in English (the commentator was
still
trying to translate it into English). Basically
what he's saying
(I think) was he's happy that there are more tournaments
in
gymnastics nowadays.
sherwin
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 09:58:00
PST
From: ***@POWERGRID.ELECTRICITI.COM
Subject:
Re: Reese's on TV
I caught the last 10-15 minutes, so dedicated am I.
Mogilny is God. He can
do as many wrong-grip Endos as he likes. Who knew
it
was a beautiful skill?
And he even
paid homage to the potted plant.
Bogey was cool. Of course, she'd be cool
looking up a smog-check station in
the phone
book.
Still, I gotta
wonder: In 1992, no ankles. In 1995, double tuck punch
front?
Well, I guess her Achilles' are strong.
Somebody give Moceanu a watchable floor routine.
Later,
Nancy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 14:59:23
-0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject:
Re: H-front w/full turn
> For some reason, vault is one place in
the (women's) Code where skills that
> haven't
been performed yet in World or Olympic competition are listed (for
> example, handspring double front and Tsuk
double back are both listed,
> though no female
gymnast has done them at Worlds or Olympics). I don't
Actually a Korean
girl did a handspring double front at Moscow '80.
Which is an impossible
vault but don't tell her.
Amanda :-)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 13:55:54
-0800
From: ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject:
Stanford-U of Ill UC accident
This is my first post to the new list address, I pray I got it right!
#1 Last night,
during warmup, Tim Dalyrymple
had a bad landing,
his feet went out from under him and he kacked
his head on the floor
HARD ! By the end of the meet, he had been diagnosed with a
concussion
and been through CAT scan, although the scan had not been
read yet.
It
was expected that he would be released this morning (Sun).
This
is all I know, I hope he recovers well ans soon.
Kinda accidentally I met him over
the net and I kinda think hes
a nice
guy, and Im bummed that this
happened to him. And missing out
on
competing against UIUC really sux. UIUC is a hot team and to do well
against them is a real coup!
#2 I was really
rattled and my notes are kinda
screwy so I think the score
was like 217 Stanford, to 216 UIUC. Pat Tower please correct
me.
I
was also bummed not to see Pat there but I hope he can help me on the
scores.
#3 I know I keep
promising to decode my notes but im swamped timewise.
I
PROMISE I'll do it SOON !
#4 Also to Pat
Tower, any chance of getting a copy of the program from the
big meet @ Stanford a few weeks back with UCLA STanford SJSU and the
rest of them ?
Got one in your arvhives you can xerox me ?
>
OK, Ill shut up
now...
>
-texx
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 17:30:11
-0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject:
Re: H-front w/full turn
> > For some reason, vault is one place
in the (women's) Code where skills that
> > haven't
been performed yet in World or Olympic competition are listed (for
>
> example, handspring double front and Tsuk double back are both listed,
> > though no female gymnast has done them at Worlds or
Olympics). I don't
>
>
>
Actually a Korean girl did a handspring double front at Moscow '80.
>
Which is an impossible vault but don't tell her.
Oops. My bad. Someone else pointed out that she landed
on her butt, so I
guess she found out. On the subject of naming, the system
wasn't really
regularized back then the way it is
now, but since she fell, she couldn't
get it
credited to herself anyway.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 17:36:22
-0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject:
Re: Messe Cup
> this
has got rhythmic gymnasts taking part as well, therefore each team
> had three gymnasts competing (man, woman and rhythmic) and
the total
I just couldn't help laughing at the thought of there being
three
sexes -- male, female, and rhythmic.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 19:24:16
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Re: Messe Cup
>I just couldn't help
laughing at the thought of there being three
sexes
-- male, female, and rhythmic.
I always thought the three sexes were
man, woman, & Sov
Mara
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 16:40:00
PST
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject:
Handspring front with a full
Didn't Dragoner
of Hungary throw this vault at Brisbane?2
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 19:57:10
-0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject:
Re: Handspring front with a full
> Didn't Dragoner
of Hungary throw this vault at Brisbane?2
>
Yes! She did! I'd completely forgotten. I believe she butsu'd
both.
By the way, there was an Ildiko Dragoner of Hungary who tumbled at the 90
World Acro Cup. Anyone
on gymn into acro (or Ildiko) and know if it's the
same
one? Isn't that a saz name by the way.
Amanda
------------------------------
End
of GYMN-L Digest - 11 Mar 1995 to 12 Mar 1995
*************************************************