GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1995 to 12 Jun 1995

There are 8 messages totalling 322 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Rudi on floor (2)
  2. more on rudi's
  3. in "IG"
  4. Tina B's rudi pass
  5. English Mens Championships
  6. 1995 China Cup results
  7. Pretty Girls in Little Boxes


Date:    Mon, 12 Jun 1995 02:25:05 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Rudi on floor

It just occurred to me that I should clear something up from my last post --
while a Rudi doesn't have to be in the layout position, I'm pretty sure only
the layout Rudi was an E (now devalued to a D).

Kathy E. writes:

>Tina Brinkman of ASU does a pretty good [tucked Rudi], but it still
looks clumsy to me.<

Is she the one who does tucked Rudi-ff-ff-double back?  While the tucked Rudi
may be somewhat unattractive, I think that's a cool pass.



Date:    Mon, 12 Jun 1995 12:05:30 BST
From:    ***@CS.BHAM.AC.UK
Subject: more on rudi's

In trampolining twisting single somersaults get the same tariff (difficulty
score) regardless of shape, ie. a tucked rudi gets the same value as a piked
one, as a straight one. However, as some people have pointed out, straight
looks best.



Date:    Mon, 12 Jun 1995 07:35:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Rudi on floor

Adriana ponders:

> Kathy E. writes:
> >Tina Brinkman of ASU does a pretty good [tucked Rudi], but it still
> looks clumsy to me.<
> Is she the one who does tucked Rudi-ff-ff-double back?  While the tucked Rudi
> may be somewhat unattractive, I think that's a cool pass.

Yes, Tina is the one who does this combination. (Actually, did <sniff>,
since she has finished her collegiate career.) I thought it was pretty cool
that (in collegiate scoring) she was doing an E and a D in the same pass.
Then again, Tina is pretty cool in general.  After all, she *is* from
Wisconsin and the Pac-10.  :)   It's too bad her senior year was shortened
by a concussion.  She made it to NCAA's, but I don't remember whether she
did this combination.  (I might have been changing lenses at the time.)



Date:    Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:17:13 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: in "IG"

Hi everyone!

I just got this month's issue of "International Gymnast," and I thought I'd
post some things that might be of interest to those of you who don't get any
of the mags:

1)  "Superstars of Gymnastics" will be on the USA Network on Thursday, July
13 at 9 pm EDT, and then again on Saturday, July 15 at 1 pm EDT.

2)  There was an article about Cirque du Soleil and since I've seen some
questions on this forum about gymnasts who are in it, here are the names
listed:  Philippe Chartrand, Yves Decoste, Mario Pontbriand, Terry Bartlett,
Mike Rice, Terry Notary and Natasha Hallett.

3)  Lots of discussion (and GREAT pictures) about the controversy over the
Chinese gymnasts and their eneven bars at the Visa Challenge.  Included is
part of an interview with Jackie Fie in which she says the competition was
not an FIG event, so she didn't want to interfere, adding that she wasn't
saying whether she agreed or disagreed with the value of the routines.

4)  There was also an update on Michelle Campi.  She went to one of the NBA
doctors for a second opinion about her back, and that doctor gave her the
go-ahead, but apparenly it's been hard for her to get Nunno to believe it.
 She says she may return to American Twisters after high school and is hoping
to compete in college next fall.

5)  Milano USA is coming out with a Kim Zmeskal line (leotards)!

Well, I hope this interests some of you!

Ann Marie


Date:    Mon, 12 Jun 1995 18:35:40 EDT
From:    ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: Tina B's rudi pass

Yep, she's the one who does the running tucked rudi ff ff
double tuck!!! I just about flew out of my seat when I saw
that... AMAZING!!! But I have to admit that Jenny Hansen's
handspring front with a full twist vault had the same effect
on me!<G>

                Anne :)


Date:    Tue, 13 Jun 1995 01:07:21 BST
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: English Mens Championships

English Mens Championships  (Bletchley)

1. Paul Bowler          (Manchester Central)    55.35
2. Lee McDermott        (Sutton)                54.30
3. Dominic Brindle      (Leeds)                 53.30



Date:    Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:32:57 -0600
Subject: 1995 China Cup results

Hi everyone,

Just got a fax today with these results.  I couldn't make out a few of
the scores so I hope they add up.  (The totals are right, but some
of the event scores may be incorrect.)  It appears that there were two
separate competitions.  Don't know exactly how things went about.

MAY 27-28 - CHENG'DU

WOMEN'S ALL-AROUND            Vault   Bars   Beam  Floor   Total
 1 - Mo Huilan         CHN-A  9.837 10.000  9.850  9.700  39.387
 2 - Liu Xuan          CHN-B  9.737  9.875  9.850  9.925  39.382
 3 - Kellee Davis      USA    9.600  9.775  9.800  9.700  38.875
 4 - Ji Liya           CHN-B  9.775  9.325  9.800  9.500  38.400
 5 - Lyutov Sheremeta  UKR    9.587  9.700  9.250  9.800  38.337
 6 - Elvire Teza       FRA    9.717  9.325  9.800  9.400  38.242
 7 - Mohini Bhardwaj   USA    9.600  9.775  9.250  9.500  38.125
 8 - Marleen Lavoie    CAN    9.275  9.625  9.700  9.300  37.900
 9 - Qiao Ya           CHN-A  9.562  9.875  8.500  9.875  37.812
10 - Maria Olaru       ROM    9.650  9.625  8.600  9.675  37.550
plus 11 others

Vault                                Balance Beam
 1 - Mo Huilan    CHN-A  9.837       1t - Liu Xuan     CHN-B  9.850
 2 - Ji Liya      CHN-B  9.775       1t - Mo Huilan    CHN-A  9.850
 3 - E.Teza       FRA    9.717       3t - K.Davis      USA    9.800
 4 - M.Olaru      ROM    9.650       3t - E.Teza       FRA    9.800
5t - M.Bhardwaj   USA    9.600        5 - M.Lavoie     CAN    9.700
5t - K.Davis      USA    9.600       6t - L.Sheremeta  UKR    9.250
 7 - L.Sheremeta  UKR    9.587       6t - M.Hashiguchi JPN    9.250
 8 - Kim Yoon-Ji  KOR    9.425       6t - M.Bhardwaj   USA    9.250

Uneven Bars                          Floor Exercise (may be incorrect)
 1 - Mo Huilan    CHN-A 10.000        1 - Liu Xuan     CHN-B  9.925
 2 - Liu Xuan     CHN-B  9.875        2 - L.Sheremeta  UKR    9.800
3t - M.Bhardwaj   USA    9.775        3t- Mo Huilan    CHN-A  9.700
3t - K.Davis      USA    9.775        3t- K.Davis      USA    9.700
 5 - L.Sheremeta  UKR    9.700        5 - M.Olaru      ROM    9.675
6t - M.Olaru      ROM    9.625        6 - M.Hashiguchi JPN    9.600
6t - M.Lavoie     CAN    9.625        7 - N.Ziehfreund GER    9.525
 8 - N.Ziehfreund GER    9.525        8 - M.Bhardwaj   USA    9.500



UNEVEN BARS                         BALANCE BEAM
 1 - Mo Huilan    CHN-A  9.900      1 - Ji Liya      CHN-B  9.875
 2 - Elvire Teza  FRA    9.850      2 - Mo Huilan    CHN-A  9.800
 3 - L.Sheremeta  UKR    9.825      3 - M.Bhardwaj   USA    9.625
 4 - Qiao Ya      CHN    9.800      4 - Elvire Teza  FRA    9.600
5t - Kellee Davis USA    9.775      5 - M.Hashiguchi JPN    9.500
5t - M.Bhardwaj   USA    9.775      6 - Maria Olaru  ROM    9.475
 7 - Maria Olaru  ROM    9.750      7 - L.Sheremeta  UKR    9.200
 8 - M.Lavoie     CAN    9.475      8 - Kellee Davis USA    9.100


Date:    Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:40:07 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Pretty Girls in Little Boxes

Like many of you, the discussion of this book on the list made me curious
enough to read it, when I probably never would have otherwise.  It's been
interesting to follow the discussion as I've been reading it, and I wanted to
add my impressions of both the book and the discussion of it.  My daughter,
who's 10 and in a recreational gym program, grabbed the book as soon as she
saw it, and finished it in a day, so we've been discussing it, too.

Someone commented that the book  is written from a feminist perspective, and
I think that's really key to understanding it.  The author makes it clear
that her intention is to prove a thesis, that there are some abuses that
occur at the elite levels of gymnastics and figure skating that have their
roots in the values of today's society.  It feels to me like her intention in
the book is to explore how those values have led to a corruption of what is
good and valuable in these sports at the elite level, and also have caused
many people to not want to acknowledge the abuses, much less take action to
correct them. If she were a more skilled writer, it might come through more
clearly that she is trying to indict society for creating an atmosphere that
almost guarantees that this will happen, and to be a catalyst for change.

Some of the cultural values she identifies as contributing  to the problem
are obsession with appearance and with winning, and an ambivalence toward
women as athletes because when women are athletes they don't fit into the
"pretty boxes"  constructed for them.  Her purported purpose is to understand
the societal forces surrounding the problem, to expose the issues, and create
a sense of outrage that will lead to action to change the situation.  Her
purpose is not to trash the sports, nor to present a balanced picture of what
the sports are like generally.  I'm not saying that she accomplished her
goal, or that she's a good writer, or that everything she says is true.  But
I think she's got some valid points.  Because grace and beauty are so much a
part of skating and gymnastics, and because youth, thinness and beauty are
elements that contribute to success at the elite level, these sports are more
in conformance with prevalent values than other sports are.  The athleticism,
hard work, and dedication of the participants is not as obvious as in other
sports; it's supposed to look like it's easy and natural.  No one wants to
look too closely at what it takes to achieve this, or what we're really
asking of these girls and young women, what the price is in human terms for

In that context, I have comments on some of the thigs that have been said in
the discussion.

1.  The book should present more of the positives of the sport.

Why? The author states her purpose in the introduction, and that purpose is
not to present a balanced picture of these sports, but to examine some
problems that exist at the elite level, and to explain their causes. She is
presenting examples that support her argument, which seems like a reasonable
strategy to me.  The abuses may not be the norm, but they are what's relevent
to her thesis.

2.  Gymnastics and skating are not the only sports where there are problems
and abuses.

True, but so what?  The reason it's so easy to think of examples in tennis,
football, etc, is that they have been written about and presented in the
media in a variety of forms.  But this book is about the interplay between
society's values and characterisitics of gymnastics and figure skating, so
how are these things relevent?  She isn't saying other sports are perfect,
and she does mention some of the abuses in these sports.  Her focus is on
what is unique about gymnastics and figure skating in terms of how problems
are recognized and dealt with.

3.  The abusive methods of coaches like Bela Karolyi work.

Yes, and Mussolini made the trains run on time, and Hitler revitalized the
German economy.  Do the ends justify the means?  Are we, as a society,
comfortable with tolerating abuse so long as the result is a champion?  These
things are not happening in a vacuum, and there is a question of
responsibility here.

4.  No one is forcing these girls to compete, to tolerate the abuse.

Maybe not, though there are some pretty heavy pressures on these girls.
 Decisions they make are influenced to a great extent the expectations of
 the people who are important in their lives, and in living up to those
expectations.  And my experience with children and teens (including myself
when younger) is that the choices they make are not always in their own best
interests.  That's why it's so important for the adults involved to keep a
clear view of the situation, and step in when things get out of hand, to
really protect the best interests of the girls as people rather than looking
at just one dimension of their lives, gymnastics. We need to do a reality
check once in a while, to make sure we understand what kind of messages we're
sending through our actions as well as our words.  To me, there's a hint of
blaming the victims when we say they could choose to quit.  Have they really
been prepared to make a rational decision?  In the context of their lives,
how free are they to oppose the wishes of the authority figures in their
lives, like parents and coaches?  If their sense of self is based on their
performance in the sport, won't it be difficult for them to break away?

I don't agree with everything the author is saying, and  I'm not impressed
with her writing or her research methods, but I think she raises some
important questions and that we need to look more closely at some of the
issues, so we can do a better job of providing talented gymnasts and skaters
with a healthy environment in which to succeed.  The elite gymnastics
community needs to make sure that the sport is heading in a direction that is
not destructive to the participants. Virtues carried to extremes can become
harmful and destructive.  Like in other areas of life, dedication and
discipline can become obsession, and ambition can override common sense.
 Children need to be encouraged to have balance in their lives, to have the
larger picture pointed out to them when their focus is too narrow.  I've seen
gymnastics teach my daughter many valuable things that I try to help her
apply to other areas of her life, and I regret that for many young women,
these lessons become distorted and perverted, and are destructive rather than



End of GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1995 to 12 Jun 1995