GYMN-L Digest - 7 May 1995 to 8 May 1995

There are 29 messages totalling 758 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. worldwide dream team (4)
  2. Dream Team
  3. Scherbo (Was: Li's Vault)
  4. western rhythmic info?
  5. age for international meets
  6. Cottbus Grand Prix (Day Two)
  7. One arm moves and their r...
  8. Age Limitations
  9. random (2)
 10. NCAA men's coverage
 11. World dream team
 12. World Dream team
 13. International Dream Team of Women's Gymnastics (2)
 14. New guy
 15. UB Bonus
 16. Worldwide Dream Team (2)
 17. Dream Team/Nationals
 18. On a less serious note
 19. shannon's coach, and the US team
 20. Nationals
 21. dream team
 22. Special video offer!
 23. NCAA men's coverage (fwd)


Date:    Sun, 7 May 1995 23:04:29 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: worldwide dream team

>I thought it might be fun to start speculating on who we each think would
make the best U.S. team

Let's take it one further.  Let's pretend (indulge me a moment) the earth has
to put together teams to compete against some other planet.  The fate of the
earth depends on the result.

What would your dream teams (M & W) be, if there can be 8 athletes total on
each team, with 6 competing on each apparatus?  One caveat. . . the athletes
have to be currently competing.

I need a little more thought before I post my list, but I'll throw the
question out there for all of you.



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 00:39:47 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: worldwide dream team

My picks for the dream team would be:
Lilia Podkopayeva
Shannon Miller
Lavinia Milosovichi
Elana Piskun
Oksana Fabrichnova
Amanda Borden
Mo Huilan
Gina Gogean



Date:    Sun, 7 May 1995 21:11:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Dream Team

Date sent:  7-MAY-1995 21:08:57
*smiles* Atlanta dream team, huh?
Well, here's my vote:

Shannon Miller
Dominique Dawes
Kerri Strug
Amanda Borden
Dominique Moceanu
Doni Thompson
Amy Chow

And, if I had to put together an all-time US Dream team, try this:

Shannon Miller
Kim Zmeskal
Kerri Strug
Phoebe Mills
Brandy Johnson
Dominique Dawes



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 08:32:23 BST
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Scherbo (Was: Li's Vault)

Orion wrote:

> Also, perhaps Sherwin can answer something for me since he just saw Scherbo
> perform. Do you know it he did his new release move on HB that he's talked
> about? In an interview last fall he mentioned some spectacular move that
> nobody had ever done before and he had mastered it. I have no idea what it
> is and perhaps someone can shed some light on the subject.

Vity didn't do anything out of the ordinary at Cottbus, just the usual one
arm Tkatchevs and Geinger that he normally does and a full-twisting double
layout dismount...



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 07:29:29 -0600
Subject: western rhythmic info?

Can anyone give me details (exactly where & when, etc) on the
Western Rhythmic Open to be held next weekend in Downer's Grove, IL?



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 08:39:30 EDT
Subject: age for international meets

I just wanted to ask what is the minimum age for gymnasts to compete in
international meets. I heard it was being changed from 14 to 16 years old,
but in that case, Dominique Monceanu won't be able to compete in the next
Olympics games.  I know that some countries have officially changed the age
of their athletes; did this happen to Nadia Commanici (sic) ? I heard that
she was 16 three years in a row.



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 11:08:30 -0400
Subject: Re: worldwide dream team

My dream team would be, Lilya Podkopayeva, Dina Kotcheckova, Lavinia
Milosovici, Ana Maria Bican, Dominique Dawes, Dominique Moceaunu, Elena
Piskun, and (reluctantly) Shannon Miller

A member of the race that knows Joseph


Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 11:12:33 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Cottbus Grand Prix (Day Two)

What's the "head-to-head" mean?  Something more than finals?

Sherwin wrote:

 1. Svetlana Khorkina           (RUS)   9.637
 2. Dina Kochetkova             (RUS)   9.350



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 11:36:26 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: One arm moves and their r...

Ilene wrote:
[As for me, I do support the FIG devaluing moves that are too dangerous, but
I don't think one-armed UB work falls into that category.

I agree.  But here's another twist.  Let's say you are a novice- or
junior-level gymnast who competes in a category that restricts D's & E's
everybody has lower start value because of less bonus).  If one-arms are
considered "dangerous" yet have C value + "new move" bonus, does this not
encourage them?  That is, this could be even more dangerous if
less-"prepared" gymnasts start trying it to get more bonus?

The one-arm giants are exTREMEly difficult, and I would only want to see
it performed by well-trained gymnasts.  I think it is a poor tribute to the
originator (was it Meng Fei?) to perform it badly, at any level.  Therefore,
it should be valued highly (D) to begin with so that those who perform it
badly or without proper preparation would be devalued by execution.

I'm glad I'm no longer judging.


Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 08:03:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Age Limitations

Date sent:  8-MAY-1995 08:02:11
The change in age limitation for international competition will not
go into effect until after the 1996 Atlanta Olympics. Also, for the
Olympics, athletes must currently turn 15 the year of the Games. So,
with rules as they are now, Dominique Moceanu, Jennie Thompson, and
Tanya Maiers (and a few others, no doubt) would all be eligible to



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 12:37:40 EDT
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Re: random


>If you are intersted in tapes of the men's NCAA championships, let me

Is this copies of CBS's coverage, or something more extensive?



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 12:56:00 EDT
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: NCAA men's coverage

First, my apologies to everyone for accidentally CC'ing the list
with a private e-mail to Rachele.

Secondly, I thought there was some impressive gymnastics
on display at the NCAA men's finals, and I look forward to
seeing Richard Grace and Josh Stein trying out for the
Atlanta team next year.  Too bad that CBS didn't really
cover the men's event finals any more they did the
women's event finals; I would have liked to have seen
more of Brian Yee.  The darker side was that along
with some neat tricks, I also saw a lot of form
problems, even from Grace, who had mostly decent form.

What's the current handicapping on the likely US men's
Olympic team?

The full-twisting Kovacs was cool; who all is doing that
move these days internationally?

About how much lower would the NCAA scores be if they
were scored by international rules?



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 13:00:16 EDT
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Re: World dream team

A world all-star team, in no particular order:

Milosovici, Fabrichnova, Kochetkova, Dawes, Miller, Moceanu,
Piskun, and Mo.



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 11:12:27 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Re: random

| Is this copies of CBS's coverage, or something more extensive?

More extensive.  Fred Turoff, Temple coach, made tapes for educational
purposes for Temple. It includes all of team and event finals, and
perhaps some of prelims?  He is not selling the tapes, but in return
for a donation to Temple, he will make a copy of the tape for you.

Like I said, email me for more info.  =)



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 12:20:40 -0500
Subject: Re: World Dream team

Date sent:  8-MAY-1995 12:18:26
Hmmm....this could be a challenge...

Shannon Miller
Lavinia Milosovici
Svetlana Khorkina
Dominique Dawes
Yelena Piskun
Gina Gogean
Kerri Strug
Dina Kochetkova (though Amanda Borden, Mo Huilan and Elodie Lussac
also deserve the recognition)



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 14:18:25 -0400
Subject: International Dream Team of Women's Gymnastics

I'ld have to suggest the following:

Gina Gogean, Romania
Oksana Fabrishova, Russia
Mo Hulan, China
Lillya Podkopyeva, Ukraine
Shannon Miller, USA
Elodie Lussac, France

Alternates would be:

Elena Piskun (Belarus) and Oksana Chusovitina (Ezb)

After all, for a world champions team, you do need some world champions
moving the mats around

But, a more interesting question would be who would be the coach!!!!



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 14:36:25 CDT
From:    ***@SEMOVM.SEMO.EDU
Subject: New guy

Hey all! Thanks for having me on your list.

Anyway, I am a student at Southeast Missouri State University. I am
also the sports editor and sports photographer for the student paper.
My favorite sport to watch, by far, is women's gymnastics. If any of
ever saw any issues of my paper, the would be very apparent. Anyway,
I thought I'd say hi to everyone and I'll give the list a look as to
see what the current messages are before I plunge in.

Again, thanks!


Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 15:51:16 -0400
Subject: Re: International Dream Team of Women's Gymnastics

I am interested in all of your responses to the Dream Team question. Why
hasn't anyone mentioned(if I missed it, sorry) Svetlana Boginskaya? I'd
want her on my team!

Also, completely unrelated-the men's NCAA championship was poorly covered
IMHO. Stanford had such a commanding lead and we never saw anyone else
except Josh Stein. I thinl he is a great performer but what about his
I loved the full twisting Kovacs on the high bar! WOW!
That's all for now!


Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 16:04:21 -0400
Subject: UB Bonus

In response to interest about the rules for connection bonus:  I'm really
swamped with work for the next two weeks (finals and some other stuff), so I
won't be very efficient in responding to mail.  However, UB is quick, so
I thought I'd post that now, for folks to ponder until I sneak some more
time from studying to do other events.

C+C/D/E = 0.1
D+D/E = 0.2

C-elements must have twist or flight in order for the connection to
receive bonus (for example, front giants don't qualify).

Note: on every event, E's count the same as D's for purposes of
connection bonus.

Oh, and I'm just doing women's.

Also, I got another notice that my box was locked, so mail to me may
bounce for the next 24 hours or so.



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 13:28:00 PDT
From:    ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Worldwide Dream Team

Yulia Yurkina
Svetlana Khorkina
Letitia Begue
Mo Huilan
Lilia Podkopaeva
Ekaterina Vandesheva
Svetlana Todorova (sentimental pick)
Svetlana Boguinskaia (sentimental pick)


Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 16:37:04 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Dream Team/Nationals

As of this moment, my picks would be:

Dominique Dawes
Shannon Miller
Lavinia Milosovici
Gina Gogean
Svetlana Khorkina
Mo Huilan
Dina Kochetkova

I'd have put Kim Zmeskal on the list if she was back competing.

I'd pick Bela Karolyi for the coach, with Octavian Bela as his assistant!  No
real reason--I just like them best!

Along the same lines, U.S. Nationals are in a few months--any predictions?  I
can't even begin to guess...Dawes?  Miller?  Strug?  Zmesakl?  What about the
former juniors?  It will definately be a crowded field.  I'd love to hear
what some of you think!

Ann Marie


Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 13:42:00 PDT
From:    ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: On a less serious note

Hello.. Ever notice how many people walking around look like
famous int'l gymnasts?  There was this girl in high school who
WAS Shushunova.  My high school also had a Baitova and a Dudeva.
Amy went to school with an Artemov and the lady at her bank
is Gutsu.  Plus a Bogy look-alike, named Kim of all things is
in her art class.  Felix Aguilera is in my history class, and
I saw Jesus Rivera, I swear.  He has a green backpack.  I studied
in Mexico with a Chen Cuiting look-alike, except this girl had
a perm.  A Li Jing type used to live in my old apartment building.

Plus, as an added bonus, there is a lady who works at the
Carl's Jr in Northridge who looks just like Strazheva, except that
she is Mexican.  But ohmygod, she is Olga.  Ask Amanda, Susan, or
Nancy.  Theyve seen her.

Let me think, who else.. I can't remember any other lookalikes
at the moment.. but if I see any, I'll keep you informed.



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 17:34:35 -0400
From:    ***@BCVMS.BC.EDU
Subject: shannon's coach, and the US team

Well, to start out with, I feel ridiculous about the fact that his name escapes
me, but I was wondering if anyone else ever got the feeling that Shannon
Miller's coach is a little rough sometimes.  I mean, just the comments that you
overhear him making after her routines sometimes sound like the type of harsher
criticism that I would save for practice.   I'm not sure, though.  Just
wondering what you all think.  OH! I remember - Steve N. (how in the heck do
you spell that one?)

And, I also wanted to say that I really liked the idea of just making
predictions, or wishes, about an only US Olympic team.  Not that an
international one isn't interesting.  I was really curious, though, what
everyone would put for a restricted-to-americans team.

Personally, I have no idea.  I only know that it would have to include Amanda
Borden, since I am a Cincinnatian, originally.  And both Dominiques.

Well, excuse any obvious ignorance...I feel a bit behind in terms of my
gymnastics knowledge around here :)

Amy Scott


Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 18:01:40 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Worldwide Dream Team

What countries are Ekaterina Vandesheva
Svetlana Todorova from?

(: Emily


Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 19:01:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Nationals

Date sent:  8-MAY-1995 18:54:32
You're right, Ann Marie, nationals is gonna be nuts. I'd
say the competition could be even closer than the women's
NCAA's this year (which I found VERY close and exciting).

The way I see it, there are at least 12 girls capable of contending
for the seven spots to the World Championships in Sabae. I'll
count when I'm done, so don't quote me on that number 'till I'm

Shannon Miller
Dominique Dawes
Amanda Borden
Kerri Strug
Larissa Fontaine
Amy Chow
Jaycie Phelps
Kellee Davis

Juniors (or former juniors)
Dominique Moceanu
Jennie Thompson
Doni Thompson
Kristy Powell
Mary Beth Arnold
Mina Kim
Katie Teft

Okie, so that makes fifteen. I'd say that Miller, Dawes, Strug, and
Borden are locks for the team, so the battle will be for the final
three spots. My best guess? Doni Thompson, Dominique Moceanu, and
Katie Teft.



Date:    Tue, 9 May 1995 11:09:01 +1000
From:    ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: worldwide dream team

Hi Gang,

> Let's take it one further.  Let's pretend (indulge me a moment) the earth has
> to put together teams to compete against some other planet.  The fate of the
> earth depends on the result.

Well, on that premise I'm deeply concerned about those who'd select
Dawes, since we all know she'd choke on the final event...........

> What would your dream teams (M & W) be, if there can be 8 athletes total on
> each team, with 6 competing on each apparatus?  One caveat. . . the athletes
> have to be currently competing.

As for my dream team.......

Podkopayeva (mat mover on UB)
Kotchetkova (mat mover on BB)
Gogean (mat mover on UB)
Mo (mat mover on FX)
Lussac (mat mover on V)
Piskoun (mat mover on BB)
Fabrichnova (mat mover on V & FX)



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 21:22:36 -0400
From:    ***@TSO.CIN.IX.NET
Subject: dream team

I must admit I have enjoyed reading everyones favorite picks for 96 in
a dream team format.  I can't even begin to guess who might make it though,
I still remember the last minute struggle of Kristie Phillips when most
where thinking she would be a given on the 88 team.

However, since this forum is big into speculation (something I admire!)
let's all pretend that every gymnast in history could all compete at the
same level.  Who would you want on "your team" regardless of country,
expertise, age and other matters?

Personally, I go for some of the sentimental favs, like Olga, Nadia, and
Ludmilla, but I also like some of the ones that are occasionally forgotten.
Like Doris Fuchs-Brause and Karin Janz.  ( iknow, I have weird ideas :))

Anyhow, that's my silly idea.



Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 19:15:03 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Special video offer!

Hey Gymn,

USA Gymnastics, as some of you know, is beginning production of a
video newsletter.  I received a note from USAG today saying that
although the promotional (discount) deadline has officially passed, it
would remain open to Gymners (and USAGO'ers, naturally) until May 31st
for email orders.  Following are a description of the video and an
order form.



Dawn Brenner, USAG Video Coordinator, has completed the first issue of
_Inside USA Gymnastics_, the official video magazine of USA

I have previewed the video, and it is great fun to watch! We think
that all of you are really going to like this new concept.

Our first effort in producing Vol. 1, No. 1 was a bit difficult! We
had equipment problems and various other start-up problems, but the
end result is something that all gymnastics enthusiasts will
enjoy... and it will get better and better!

The first issue (Vol. 1, No. 1) includes the following:

  > 1995 Men's Winter Cup Challenge, Colorado Springs, Colo.
  > 1995 Women's American Classic (seniors and juniors),
    Oakland, Calif.
  > 1994 Rhythmic Challenge, Colorado Springs, Colo.
  > 1995 American Cup (men and women), Seattle, Calif.
  These competition highlights are done in a "music video"
  format and include top score listings.
  > West Valley Gymnastics (Mark Young)
  > Amy Chow
  > How do you warm-up?
  > International Protocol Summit
  > Solicitation for gymnastics "bloopers"
  > Reebok ad
  > Solicitation for "ideas"
  > How to contact USA Gymnastics

As part of the USAG promotion of this new product, we conducted an
introductory offer through _Technique_ and _USA Gymnastics_ magazines
where people could subscribe at a reduced rate.

This special offer has now concluded. HOWEVER, for USAGO users and
members of the Gymn Forum, I will extend the promotion until May 31
for all subscriptions that are received via E-MAIL.

                PROMO RATES           REGULAR RATES
Single issue
of Vol. 1, #1   $14 (includes S&H*)   $14 PLUS S&H* ($4) = $18

subscription    $55 (includes S&H*)   $55 PLUS S&H* ($6) = $61

* S&H means "Shipping & Handling" charges that are normal for
  USAG Merchandise.

If you are interested in taking advantage of this "extended promotion"
of _Inside USA Gymnastics_ for USAGO and Gymn Forum members, please
E-MAIL your request by May 31, 1995 to:
    Delphi address:    USGF
    Internet address:


Your name:
Your address:
  Country: (must be USA)

Are you? (indicate both if appropriate)
  A USAGO member?:
  A Gymn Forum member?:

Day phone number:
Night phone number:

Order information:
  __Single issue of Vol. 1, #1 @ $14
  __Four-issue subscription    @ $55

Credit card information:
  __Master Card, or
  Card number:
  Card holder name:
  Card expiration date:

Steve Whitlock


Date:    Mon, 8 May 1995 19:36:46 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: NCAA men's coverage (fwd)

| The full-twisting Kovacs was cool; who all is doing that
| move these days internationally?

Doesn't Pegan do a full-twisting something?  I think it's a Kovacs,
but I'm not sure. I know that a full-twisting Kovacs has been done
before, and actually quite a while ago if I remember correctly, but
I'm not sure.

| About how much lower would the NCAA scores be if they
| were scored by international rules?

My impression was that the routines with over .5 in bonus were pretty
scarce, and mostly from the key routines of Stanford and
Nebraska... e.g. Stanford said in the press conference that they
needed to go back and add in the difficulty that they had removed from
their routiens earlier in the year to prepare for NCAAs.



End of GYMN-L Digest - 7 May 1995 to 8 May 1995