gymn Digest Fri, 7 Oct 94 Volume 3 : Issue 28

Today's Topics:
Asian Games
Asian Games (All-Arounds)
Asian Games (Men's AA Results)
Asian Games - Men's Team
Asian Games - Women's Team (3 msgs)
Asian Games Underway (M team results included)
best names (poll?)
Bruce at World trials? (was Dynamo Skips World Trials) (4 msgs)
Bruce at World trials? (was Dynamo Skips World Trials) (fwd)
Dynamo Skips World Trials (2 msgs)
German Anyone?
Giants?
Giants [long]
Giants [technical, long]
GYMN-BOOK PICTURES - Don't be left out! (2 msgs)
Mary Lou Appearance in OH (2 msgs)
Politics as Usual (was Re: Bruce at World trials?)
question
RUS-ROM-ITA tri-meet
RUS-ROM-ITA tri-meet/Dortmund (2 msgs)
Silly Mini-Trivia Answers: Hair
Silly Mini-Trivia Questions: Hair
World Challenge of Champions

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:29:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Asian Games

Does anyone know if Roza Galiyeva and Oksana Chusovitina competed for
Uzbekistan? It will also be interesting to see how many of the competitors from
the Asian ex-Soviet republics are actually ethnic Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Kirgiz, etc.
Maybe the name of the competition will have to be changed to the Asian-Slavic
Games!

Beth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 13:03:42 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Asian Games (All-Arounds)

Info gleaned from the news wires (Reuters, AP, and UPI)...

China took gold in both the men's and women's AA today (Wednesday) at the
Asian Games. China has won every gold so far.

The Women swept the medals with Qiao Ya (38.75), Yuan Kexia (38.7), and
little Mo Huilan (38.687) going 1-2-3. Oksana Chusovitina was barely edged
out of the medals in 4th place ... only .025 out of the *silver*. The Chinese
men were only slightly less dominate with Li Xiaoshuang (57.65) and Huang
Liping (57.0) taking the gold and silver respectively. Japan's Yoshiaki
Hatakada (56.925) took the bronze and Hikaru Tanaka came in fourth. One of
the pre-meet favorites, Li Jing (2nd after the team comp.), fell on the high
bar and did well to finish 6th.

The men's title was decided on rings with Xiaoshuang scoring a massive 9.75
to Huang's 9.3. Liping excelled - as always - on the p-bars [He *is* the next
Li Jing even though Jing is still competing ... the same as in '89 when Jing
was the "next" Artemov even though they tied for the title] with a meet high
9.85 (the same score as he received in team where it was also the meet high).
Xiaoshuang scored 9.775 on the p's despite a stumble on the dismount. Happy
with his win Xiaoshuang says of between this and his Barcelona floor exercise
gold the Asian Games AA was "my best win ever." Though overall his meet was
dismal Li Jing did manage the highest pommel horse score with a 9.8. Yeo Hung
Chul of South Korea and Sergei Federochenko of Kazakhstan outscored the field
on floor ex with a 9.625 each.

Chinese men's head coach, Huang Yubin, said "This helped us to know what
improvements we have to make in the future" and also said that their goal was
the team gold in Atlanta [the newspaper called it - and I kid you not - the
" ***1994*** Olympic[s] in Atlanta"]. Of Li Jing's performance he said he was
not worried since Jing was still recovering from an injury suffered last
year. He also said that all the Chinese athletes will get "financial rewards"
for their victories though amounts have yet to be determined [If they asked
Milo she'd probably tell them to get the cash up front <g>]. Of their chances
in tomorrow's (Thursdays) apparatus finals (where they are favored to take
most of the golds) Yubin said " ... the Koreans and Japanese will be strong."

For the girls Mo brought the highest score of the day, not on the expected
uneven bars, but the floor ex (she was a finalist in Brisbane). Her final
event of the day earned her a 9.92 and secured the bronze - her first ever AA
medal. After the women's team competition on Tuesday (which the Chinese
women easily won) Mo was the AA favorite with the highest individ. score but
a beam error cost her the AA title. Of her mistake she said simply "I wasn't
straight"


-Susan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 13:03:53 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Asian Games (Men's AA Results)

>From Reuters & UPI ...

Men's all-around individual final
1. Li Xiaoshuang (China) 57.650
2. Huang Liping (China) 57.000
3. Yoshiaki Hatakada (Japan) 56.925
4. Hikaru Tanaka (Japan) 56.700
5. Toshiharu Sato (Japan) 56.575
6. Li Jing (China) 56.550
7. Sergei Federochenko (Kazakhstan) 56.475
8. Jung Jin-soo (South Korea) 56.400
9. Yeo Hung Chul (South Korea) 56.025
10. Han Yoon-soo (South Korea) 55.700
11. Dmitri Rybalko (Kazakhstan) 55.150
12. Wu Chin Chan (Taiwan) 54.800
13. A.. Valsang (Thailand) 53.850
14. S. Suwansa (Thailand) 53.800
15. V. Makeev (Kazakhstan) 53.500
16. Lee Tak Ming (Hong Kong) 51.450
17. T. Puangmanee (Thailand) 50.700
18. N. Tung (Taiwan) 50.400
19. B. Anhbayar (Mongolia) 48.550
20. Wong Kim Fai (?) 46.750

Notes:
-I filled in first names when I knew them
-Liukin must not have competed since I know (from the other articles) that he
qualified
-I thought they had said that only 16 made it into the AA?
-The direct opposite of most meets in the US and Europe there seems to be
much more men's info then women's ... which shows where Asia's gymnastics
focus and interest tend to lie

-Susan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 00:30:00 UTC
From: ***@genie.geis.com
Subject: Asian Games - Men's Team

Following are the men's team scores (from Hiroshima University's WWW page):

FX PH R V PB HB Total
1. CHN 47.150 48.100 47.250 47.200 48.800 48.475 286.975
2. KOR 47.600 46.125 47.925 47.350 47.375 47.200 283.575
3. JPN 46.600 46.125 46.700 46.800 47.625 46.975 281.550
4. KAZ 46.550 46.425 45.650 46.450 46.150 44.950 276.175
5. Thailand 42.600 40.700 42.800 44.650 43.450 40.350 254.550

Sorry for any formatting errors!

Debbie





------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 00:51:00 UTC
From: ***@genie.geis.com
Subject: Asian Games - Women's Team

Some info. from AP...

The Chinese women won the team gold with 194.375 points, ahead of Japan
(189.050) and Korea (184.400). Mo Huilan led her team; she scored 9.95 on
UB and FX, 9.875 on B, and 9.65 on V. Other members of the team are Qiao
Ya, Ye Linlin, Liu Xuan, Yuan Kexia, and Wang Xin.

Now for some quotes from Lu Shanzhen, head coach:

"I believe we have very good prospects for Atlanta. Some of the girls we
have here will go to Atlanta, but we have some good younger stronger
athletes who will be in Atlanta, too."

"It is true Mo has made great improvements since the world championships.
She lacked experience and that was a problem, but she has trained hard since
then and you can see she is now more experienced."

"Mo displayed the very best of herself and the other gymnasts also performed
very well."


Debbie


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 23:51:00 UTC
From: ***@genie.geis.com
Subject: Asian Games - Women's Team

Here are the team scores for the women:


V UB B FX Total
1. CHN 47.650 49.125 48.275 49.325 194.375
2. JPN 46.925 48.075 46.450 47.600 189.050
3. KOR 46.875 46.550 43.825 47.150 184.400
4. KAZ 47.225 45.025 44.275 45.850 182.375


Debbie


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 08:11:24 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Asian Games - Women's Team

> V UB B FX Total
1. CHN 47.650 49.125 48.275 49.325 194.375

Does anyone have more detail on the Chinese women on V? Looking at the
scores above seem to indicate it was a weakness at Asian Games.

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 02:34:56 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Asian Games Underway (M team results included)

>From the newswires (AP & Reuters) all direct quotes noted.

The Asian Games kicked off on Sunday in Hiroshima, Japan and many new sports
(like Karate) as well as 5 new nations - once Soviet Republics - debuted.
The new entrants include Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and
Turkmenistan. Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan have entered men's and women's
gymnastics teams while Turkmenistan and Kyrgystan have entered women's teams
only. Turkmenistan is not represented in gymn. China is still supposed to be
the big medal winner overall but the total will most likely be down from the
183 they earned at the last Games in 1990 (in Beijing). Of the former Sov
republics Kazakhstan is supposed to be the big medal gainer ... predicted to
finish fourth overall (behind China, Japan, & South Korea). All told more
then 7,000 athletes from 43 (12 have sent gymn teams) republics will compete
for medals in 34 sports (9 more then the Olympics).

China's mens team will be lead by 21 year old Huang Liping ('94 Brisbane
p-bar gold medalist) & Li Xiaoshuang ('92 Olympics FX gold medalist). The
Chinese women are lead by "16-year-old Ye Linlin, China's national women's
all-round champion" and Qioa Ya (sp?) who is the CHN nat'l FX champ [Hmm ...
thought they didn't even bother to contest that there <g>] Other stars like
Li Lu and Lou Li ('92 and '94 UB champs) are missing due to "sickness,
injury, or failiure to qualify" [oh those specific Chinese!].

[***Surprise****] The AA favorite (according to Reuter's anyway) is "27 year
old vetern Valeri Liukin" from Kazakhstan (they also include this
unexplainable quote "[Liukin] finished second in this year's America Cup" ...
huh????). Also of KZH [I think that's the 3 letter code anyway] is Alexei
Dmitrienko (age 20) who finished 3rd AA at this years Asian Jr. Champs. The
Kazk women are lead by two 16 year old's: Victoria Pavlova from Alma-Ata and
Irina Edwkimova (9th AA at Brisbane and FX finalist in '93). Also newcomer
Olga Sokomnina (age 14) who finshed 3rd AA at the Asian Championships [They
didn't specify Jr. but I assume so] earlier this year is expected to do well.

The Japanese have sent an inexpirienced women's team but the men are expected
to challenge for medals.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - -

Men's Team Results (Monday):
1-China 286.600
2-South Korea 283.575
3-Japan 281.550
4-Kazakshtan 276.175
5-Thailand 254.550

China won easily with it's top three athletes taking the top 3 spots overall:
Li Xiaoshuang 57.900, Li Jing [He *is* alive!!] 56.900, and Huang Liping
56.800. Hunag got the highest mark of the day with a 9.85 on p-bars. He
equaled that mark later on HB [since he still finshed third I would assume he
fell elsewhere]. South Korea showed their power on FX where Yoo Ok Youl
[this one's for Nancy and Brett only ... they put "Ryul" in the article ...
musta' interviewed him <vbg>] and Yeo Hung Chui scored 9.65. Pommel horse
yielded very high scores, compared to say ... Brisbane, with both Hatakeda
(JAP) and Huang getting 9.8's. Yoo Ok Youl lead SR with a 9.725 and teammate
Yeo Hung Chul [apparently a different guy from "Yeo Hung Chui" or maybe just
a misprint] took vault [Korea took vault ... how shocking ;-)] with a 9.7.
Liukin was "disappointing" [their words not mine] scoring only a 55.7 and
finishing 14th AA (16 qualify into Wednesday's AA). Chinese gymnast Huang [or
maybe it was the Chinese coach it wasn't really made clear ... *someone*
named "Huang" said it] said "Liukin was a very good gymnast before the break
up of the Soviet Union [in 1991] but since then his training has fallen off."

Of the win Chinese head coach, Huang Yubin ('79 World SR champ), said "We
are very satisfied with the result. In today's competition the Chinese team
was able to show all the ability we have. Most of our good gymnasts have
qualified for the individual events."

Yubin on the lower (then the last Asian Games) scores "Because of the FIG
rulings it is proving difficult to get a perfect score. A 9.8 or a 9.9 is a
good score [now]."

Yubin on the new economic reforms in China and how they effect gymnastics
"[Pointing a finger at Li Jing jokingly] Now they can make money."

Li Jing, now 24 years old [and we thought Igor was old ... well actually he -
Korby that is - was 25 last month but they "debuted" at about the same time],
said that he'd upped his training from 4 to 6 hours per day and that his
goals was to make the '96 Olympic team! "I want to go there and I think I
can if my training is good."

China is also favored in Tuesday's Women's team final.

-posted [and many comments] by Susan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 20:15:02 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: best names (poll?)

With all this talk on Asian Games and Turkmenistan, I couldn't help but
remember Aleftina Priaxina. What a gymnast, what a name... Does anybody
else have any nominees? I think I'll do a poll...

Amanda


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 19:24:19 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: Bruce at World trials? (was Dynamo Skips World Trials)

WIth Miller, Webster, and J. Thompson not at trials, that makes Wendy
Bruce #15 in the country. Top 16 go to trials... Go Wendy!

Amanda

> Well, it's official. From today's (10/4/94) USA Today:
>
> "Missing from the Trials: three gymnasts from Steve Nunno's gym, Shannon
> Miller, Soni Meduna and Marianne (sic) Webster. Nunno declined the
> invitation for his athletes to compete in trials, citing several stress
> fractures and busy schedules, according to USA Gymnastics."
>
> Mara
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 19:24:12 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Bruce at World trials? (was Dynamo Skips World Trials)

>WIth Miller, Webster, and J. Thompson not at trials, that makes Wendy
Bruce #15 in the country. Top 16 go to trials... Go Wendy!

Does anyone have the rules at hand. When I was looking through them a while
back, I recall there being no substitutions. What I'm not sure of is, is
that just substitutions due to injury, or would it apply in a situation like
this?

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 22:27:25 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: Bruce at World trials? (was Dynamo Skips World Trials)

> >WIth Miller, Webster, and J. Thompson not at trials, that makes Wendy
> Bruce #15 in the country. Top 16 go to trials... Go Wendy!
>
> Does anyone have the rules at hand. When I was looking through them a while
> back, I recall there being no substitutions. What I'm not sure of is, is
> that just substitutions due to injury, or would it apply in a situation like
> this?
>
> Mara
>
>
I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed to compete (Bruce and the
others who moved up due to the abscence of the Dynamo (and now one
Karolyi!) trio). At the 92 trials, Traci Sommers (North Stars) got to
compete when Michele Campi was withdrawn due to injury. It would be
unwise of the USGF to limit the participants at these trials... After all,
seven (is there an eighth alternate?) will go to Germany. Having less
than 13 at trials would seem lame to me. Any other opinions?
Btw, what did Meduna finish at Nationals? Didn't she miss
optionals or something, and wouldn't she have had to petition anyway?

Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 08:36:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu
Subject: Bruce at World trials? (was Dynamo Skips World Trials)

> I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed to compete (Bruce and the
> others who moved up due to the abscence of the Dynamo (and now one
> Karolyi!) trio). At the 92 trials, Traci Sommers (North Stars) got to
> compete when Michele Campi was withdrawn due to injury. It would be
> unwise of the USGF to limit the participants at these trials... After all,
> seven (is there an eighth alternate?) will go to Germany. Having less
> than 13 at trials would seem lame to me. Any other opinions?
> Btw, what did Meduna finish at Nationals? Didn't she miss
> optionals or something, and wouldn't she have had to petition anyway?

I would think this is true. The top 16 gymnasts from Nationals were
supposed to go to Trials, but because Jennie Thompson was too young, they
took #17 as well. Meduna didn't miss optionals; that was Heather Brink
and Jamie Martini. She came in 11th, I believe.

Also, I agree that less than 13 at trials would be pretty lame.

Lisa

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 21:38:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Bruce at World trials? (was Dynamo Skips World Trials) (fwd)

>
> >WIth Miller, Webster, and J. Thompson not at trials, that makes Wendy
> Bruce #15 in the country. Top 16 go to trials... Go Wendy!
>
> Does anyone have the rules at hand. When I was looking through them a while
> back, I recall there being no substitutions. What I'm not sure of is, is
> that just substitutions due to injury, or would it apply in a situation like
> this?
>
> Mara
>
> I was also wondering about the people petitioning in: Kerri Strug and
Larissa Fontaine. Do they bump Nos. 15 and 16 out, or are they just added to
the field?

Beth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 19:35:20 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Dynamo Skips World Trials

Well, it's official. From today's (10/4/94) USA Today:

"Missing from the Trials: three gymnasts from Steve Nunno's gym, Shannon
Miller, Soni Meduna and Marianne (sic) Webster. Nunno declined the
invitation for his athletes to compete in trials, citing several stress
fractures and busy schedules, according to USA Gymnastics."

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 19:18:13 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: Dynamo Skips World Trials

> Well, it's official. From today's (10/4/94) USA Today:
>
> "Missing from the Trials: three gymnasts from Steve Nunno's gym, Shannon
> Miller, Soni Meduna and Marianne (sic) Webster. Nunno declined the
> invitation for his athletes to compete in trials, citing several stress
> fractures and busy schedules, according to USA Gymnastics."
>
>
> Mara

Oh really? Busy schedules? Will any of them be competing this fall?
I'd like to see Shannon at DTB or Chunichi...

Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 13:03:56 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: German Anyone?

I occasionally run across German articles on gymnastics (from the dpa) and if
anyone out there would like to translate them and post them to "Gymn" I could
pass them on. Contact me by private e-mail if you're interested.

-Susan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 17:42:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@sas.upenn.edu
Subject: Giants?

Im a sophomore at the university of Pennsylvania, and half way through
last year me and a handful of dedicated guys re-started up the men's club
here again, after about 4-5 months I'm pretty fluent with the basic
moves, and can handle my body weight well, but I'm trying to advance to
difficult moves now. Can anyone tell me a good way to learn a giant? I
tried it on the low bar with a crash mat under me, and I bounced off the
bar with my waist so that i passed through a handstand at the top and
fell over, but if I try it on the high bar, I'm afriad I'm gonna rip off
after coming through. Any tips?

Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 08:18:01 -0400
From: ***@a1.csoc.umc.dupont.com
Subject: Giants [long]

[This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII]

Glenn,

I agree with everything Dave posted about giants, but I
want to clarify something and reinforce many of his points.

First, from the description in your post, I get the
impression that your initial attempt was casting (bouncing from
your waist as you put it) through handstand and over the bar.
This will cause your back to be leading your rotation. This is
the more difficult giant swing to learn and is not the one which
Dave describes so well.

I agree with Dave that you should start by practicing the
3/4 giant swing. Try to get your swing at least to horizontal
before pulling the toes over the bar and keep your arms STRAIGHT.
If this skill is performed well you will have enough momentum and
the proper body position to continue into a back hip circle.
There is another reason to master the 3/4 giant and that is
because it is the best way to finish a series of giant swings
once you have advanced to that point.

Now comes the point that I think Dave took for granted
and I feel is the most important prerequisite for the giant
swing: the cast to handstand. Don't try to learn the giant until
you have a good solid cast to handstand. You will only develop
and reinforce bad habits in the giant as you try to compensate
for a weak cast.

Practice the cast on the low bar and when you get to the
point that you can take it to handstand, begin to pirouette over
the bar and land on your feet. This will reinforce the turning
movement that Dave described that you will use if you can't
complete a giant swing.

Once you've mastered these two skills you'll be more than
ready to try the giant swing. Follow Dave's recommendations from
this point on with one caveat: the first few days you start doing
giants, do them with bent knees. This has the effect of reducing
the acceleration at the bottom of the swing and will allow you to
gradually get used to how tight you need to hold the bar.

One last point, DO NOT TRY A GIANT SWING WITHOUT A
QUALIFIED SPOTTER. Spend a month or so developing the
prerequisite skills and then find someone who knows what they are
doing to spot you at least for the first day. You have no idea
the amount of acceleration you will feel and how vulnerable you
will be if you peel off.

That being said, good luck with your giants. IMHO there
is no cooler feeling in all of gymnastics that the giant. Once
you can do a giant, you may not ever want to do anything else.
Have fun.

-Jim-

p.s. Glenn, email me directly. I don't live that far away and I
have some videos that show bar drills that might help you.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 16:07:38 PDT
From: ***@geoworks.com
Subject: Giants [technical, long]

> Can anyone tell me a good way to learn a giant?

Giants are probably something you don't want to learn without a
coach. The potential for flying off the bar with a bunch of energy is
quite high when you are learning it. This is mostly if you don't make it
over (and don't know to shift your wrists around when you swing back down,
or do and don't shift enough), you will peel off and go flying.

If you are going to do them without a coach to help, at least have
someone stand in to spot if (well *when*, you are learning) you do mess up.
Best place for them to be would be to the side, slightly behind the bar so
if you don't make it and swing backward they can slow you down.

The safest way to learn them is to start with a 3/4 giant, which is
like a swinging pull over. You just swing a bit and pull yourself over to
your having your hips on the bar. As you get more and more swing, you can
keep your body extended longer before you bring your hips to the bar. This
method has a few advantages in that it forces you to kick your legs over
the bar (enforcing a hollow body position instead of an arch), allows
progresive development (from below bar swinging to above bar casting) and
is the least likely to get you in a situation where you don't make it over.

Should you be in a position where you don't make it over the top, I
*highly* recommend that you pirouette and drop to your feet instead of
swinging back down. If you swing back down, you will almost definitely
(as a beginner) peel and be quite unhappy (as will your spotter). Even if
you do shift your wrists you might still peel (I did when I was learning.
I smacked into my coach. He made me learn a pirouette ;). Practice
this by casting to a handstand on a low bar (or kicking up sideways on a
low P-Bar) and falling over, doing a half twist as you start to fall such
that you come down like a roundoff. Don't worry about trying to grab the
bar again, you are just turning so you can see the ground and land easily.

The most important element in a giant is the tap, which is a kick
that comes from changing your body from stretched to hollow. This kick
gets you over the bar. The proper way to do a tap is to hollow on the way
down, "relax" or stretch through the bottom and tap (kick to a hollow) on
the way up. Relax is in quotes because you are still tight and keeping
form, but you are letting your hollow out (as gravity will tend to pull you
anyway). This *isn't* an arch unless you are going to be doing a release
move (the taps for which were discussed a number months ago, I believe),
and the best term for this position I've heard is "stretched". Ideally a
tap is quite natural, (a rag doll does one fairly well) but tends to be
quite hard to teach correctly because people overthink things. One
interesting (and important) thing about a tap is that the momentum and
energy of the kick you get from your tap will tend to be at 180 degrees
from where you start it, this is why it is done at the bottom and front of
the giant, so you will get carried over the top and back of the bar. I
can't really get into this without really bloating this message out more
than it already is.


If you ever want to refine or safely your giant, you will need a
coach to help you learn the proper body positioning and tap through the
bottom. This kind of thing you just won't be able to get over email.

Some important things to think about anyway:

o Form. If you are tight and straight, everything is easier. As
an added motivation, if you are tight you can only fall two
directions. If you aren't you can fall any way, and the bar hurts
quite a bit when you land on it.

o Keeping your body hollow on the down swing of a giant. This is
essential to a good tap, which is what gets you over the bar.

o Kicking (2nd part of the tap) late. Beginners invariably kick/tap
early, which sends their energy up and away from the bar instead of
up and over the bar, and they wind up in an arch not quite over the
top yet.

o Form. Again, you can't get enough. Trust me. Honest.

Hope this helps, but I do encourage you to get a coach,

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 10:36:40 +0800
From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: GYMN-BOOK PICTURES - Don't be left out!

For newcomers to Gymn and those of you that haven't heard (or might have
forgotten), Rachele is putting together a book of photos of its illustrious
members (you!)

Lately her computer, and subsequently her AOL account, has been on the fritz.
Subsequently the deadline for picture submissions has been extended:

October 15th for electronic submissions
October 31st for ground mail

Thanks to all that have sent their pictures in. It would really be nice to
get a good turnout. I remember when I was a freshman at Cornell we had a
similar publication (won't tell you what it was called.) Anybody that didn't
submit a photo eventually felt pretty left out. And Gymn's version will
even be available online! I'd say no nude photos, but darn if somebody hasn't
already turned one in. (jk ;^)

Ground mail goes to:

Rachele Harless
*****
Houston, TX 77006-5425

Electronic submissions should be uuencoded gif's, jpeg's, what have you and
sent to Rachele (rachele@owlnet.rice.com) or myself (geo@shilah.sun.com)

I sent mine in eons and eons ago (today). You can, too!

Yours in Gymnastics,

-George

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:49:44 +0800
From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: GYMN-BOOK PICTURES - Don't be left out!

Whoops,

Someone pointed out I gave the wrong email address for Rachele. It should
be:

***@owlnet.rice.edu

-George

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 02:35:01 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Mary Lou Appearance in OH

>From the PR Newswire (direct quotes noted) ...

Mary Lou Retton will make an offcial appearance as a spokeswoman for Revco
cosmetics at "Revco's Health and Beauty Expo October 7 and 8 at the Cleveland
Convention Center. The Expo opens Friday, October 7 at 11 a.m. and closes at
7 p.m. and reopens on Saturday, October 8 from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. It is free
and open to the public." It doesn't specify when she'll be there or what Mary
Lou will be doing.

-posted by Susan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 18:55:36 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: Mary Lou Appearance in OH

> >From the PR Newswire (direct quotes noted) ...
>
> Mary Lou Retton will make an offcial appearance as a spokeswoman for Revco
> cosmetics at "Revco's Health and Beauty Expo October 7 and 8 at the Cleveland
> Convention Center. The Expo opens Friday, October 7 at 11 a.m. and closes at
> 7 p.m. and reopens on Saturday, October 8 from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. It is free
> and open to the public." It doesn't specify when she'll be there or what Mary
> Lou will be doing.
>
> -posted by Susan

What Mary Lou will be doing is trying to make more money.

Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 03:06:56 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Politics as Usual (was Re: Bruce at World trials?)

Petitioned athletes are always "as well as" and don't fall under the number
specified by qualifying in. The USAG tends to bend the rules to whatever
suits them best at the time ... I mean there's a lot of loopholes so that
someone like a Miller or Dawes can't get "accidently" left out of a trials.
The men get no such breaks since they are not currently raking in the Int'l
gold (and subsequent endorsement cash ... money do make the gymnastics world
go round).

The rules are complex enough that when I asked around at Nat'ls not even the
coaches seemed sure if someone like Jenny T. would be allowed to attend and
compete at trials simply for the expirience since she qualified in the top 16
but she can't compete for the US at worlds since she's underage. Earlier this
year the American Classic doubled as Brisbane world trials and underage girls
were simply removed from the standings to pick the team ... of course that
was a legitimate competition that only "acted" as a trials. If Jenny wasn't
allowed to compete would girls like Bruce "move up" into the top 16 spots?
... On the one hand, it's logical but on the other a little unfair since they
didn't earn those spots. The whole business would be made infinately easier
if the USAG would 1) choose a system of selection and stick with it for at
least 1 full year (it's called planning ahead look into it) & 2) only
eligiable girls were allowed in Sr's in the first place ... but I already
shared by venom (oops I mean "views" <g>) on that one.

Just to make it perfectly clear to all those not aware ... Shannon did *not*
have to "compete" for a spot on the Dortmund team. She simply had to "prove
readiness" at a trials (essentially means even exhib. sets would have been
okay). There was a rule (read: "loophole") that read "any athlete that won an
AA medal in Brisbane would automatically get a bye onto the team if they were
able (and apparently willing) to compete". FYI, it's coaches as well as USAG
officials that decide how these things work (how many girl's from what meets
qualify into what etc.) ... that includes Mr. Nunno who thought this was a
boffo idea when he voted for it in March (I think it was March). Apparently,
he's fickle.

I have to say it is definitely in everyone's best interest to field the most
capable team possible but there must be a more equatable (to everyone) way to
do it. This back biting and bitterness literally weeks before a major meet
helps no-one and makes the entire idea of a "team" a pathetic joke.

Sorry Nunno-ettes, there is no explanation beyond childish petulance to keep
the Dynamo girls (and realistically Shannon was the only one with a 'fer sure
chance at the team ... Jenny is too young remember) from trials. Steve didn't
get his way and now he's pouting ... end of story. Add to that the fact that
the US will *not* win the gold - with or without Miller - and isn't even
that secure for the bronze (a wobble and/or a fall here or there and they
could find themselves way down or, less likely IMHO, up in the standings) ...
Steve didn't want his cash cow (sorry Shannon) to chalk up *3* losses in a
row ... it's bad for business. No matter how you dress it up ... it was a
crappy choice. Of course without Shannon any lose we suffer can be blamed on
her lack ... which is tacky in the extreme in and of itself. In the words of
Kelly Davis (Dawes coach) "I think we have an obligation to represent our
country ... no matter how we may do personally."

Remember when people lived for the day they could represent their country in
the sport they trained their entire lives for? Remember when something like a
world championships would have been a big deal?

Disgusted as Usual (and still a *really* bad speller/typist),
-Susan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 20:41:26 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: question

You can also private e mail me- ***@aol.com
Anne

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 18:43:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject: RUS-ROM-ITA tri-meet

Well, I've finally gotten around to looking at some of my "Sovetsky Sport"
issues, and I found this article from the Sept. 8 issue. I think it's really
interesting in view of the upcoming Worlds. This will be kind of a "speed
translation," so forgive any mistakes or "translationese:!

Artistic Gymnastics: LET'S REMEMBER BARCELONA... AND BREATHE EASILY. (By
Natalia Kalugina, Sovetsky Sport, p. 2.) We rarely report on dual meets or
tri-meets in artistic gymnastics. Rarely because, considering the level of
Russia's athletes, we consider them almost warmup exercises. And what interest
do readers have in knowing about drudge work? But perhaps the
Italy-Romania-Russia tri-meet is worth reporting on.
Remember what a shock we experienced in the spring, when in the team
competition at the European Championships our girls lost to the Romanians by
2.5 points? We wanted to rectify this "D" performance.
Unfortunately, the Romanian coaches preferred to field a second-string
team at the Goodwill Games in St. Petersburg. Naturally, it was no trouble at
all for our strongest to beat the youngsters. So the tournament didn't prove
anything. But finally: Milosovici, Gogean and Hategan vs. Khorkina, Kochetkova
and Fabrichnova. Natalia Tokareva, Oksana Fabrichnova's coach, relates:
"We approached the meet almost like a world championships. Why 'almost'?
They will really take place two months from now, and we hadn't seen our rivals
from Europe. Marina Bulashenko, the dance coach, and I took seats as judges. Oh
how we wanted to help our girls! But we couldn't do anything. Let's look at the
compulsories. Unfortunately, the Romanians were more precise on vault. But we
were ahead on the other three apparatus. Well, and then in the optionals the
girls showed everything that they should have. By the way, let's look at the
result sheets - don't be surprised at Dina Kochetkova's low placing. This time
fifth place was like a gold. Her foot was hurting badly, and we had even
thought about withdrawing her from the competition. But she decided to
perform."
So that's how the women's competition went. The team performances by the
men aren't even worth writing about. For, let's face it, the figures speak for
themselves: They beat the Italians by 8.25 points! Granted, in the AA they
yielded to the more experienced Boris Preti. Well, that's a rectifiable matter.
Especially since we still have two months.

Results of Italy-Russia-Romania Tri-Meet in Salerno
Women's team: 1. Russia - 388.3
2. Romania - 387.625
3. Italy - 369.8
Women's AA: 1. Svetlana Khorkina - 78.525
2. Gina Gogean - 78.15
3. Lavinia Milosovici - 78.125
4. Oksana Fabrichnova - 78.025
5. Dina Kochetkova - 77.9
6. Nadia Hategan - 77.675
Men's team: 1. Russia - 552.2
2. Italy - 543.95
3. Romania - 539.05
Men's AA: 1. Boris Preti - 111.35
2. Yevgeny Shabayev - 110.25
3. Ye. Zhukov - 109.9
4. D. Trush - 108.55
5. Ye. Podgorny - 107.95
6. M. Rizan - 105.65

Well, the battle for the women's team gold in Dortmund is going to be VERY
interesting. I figured the Romanians were the favorite, but if Russia could
beat them with Kochetkova injured... Also, I'm glad this meet was held in
Italy, so neither Russia nor Romania had a home-court advantage. I suppose it
didn't hurt Russia that two of their coaches were judging, but I guess I'm just
assuming the other teams had coaches who were judging too. The article doesn't
say though, so I don't know.
If this meet was televised by Eurosport or Italian TV, can you let me
know? Thanks! :)

Beth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 17:49:16 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: RUS-ROM-ITA tri-meet/Dortmund

What is up with the title of this article, anyway? Before I had
gotten to the results section, I had figured that Romania had won and
that the best Russia could do was fifth with an injured Chet. "Let's
Remember Barcelona- and Breathe Easily" seemed to imply that... But good
job, Khorkina! (my fave btw :-))
Definitely Russia has an advantage over Romania in the compulsories. I
would give Dortmund to Russia, were it not for the new STUPID system where
only optionals count for the gold medal. For those of you who don't know
what I'm talking about, all teams at Dortmund will compete both
compos+optionals, and *then* the top 12 teams (I think 12) will go into
the last round (optionals only) with a clean slate. What's the point of
even having compulsories? It's not like it's going to make a difference
with the top teams anyway, all will qualify based on their optional
strength. What will the FIG come up with next? (I don't even want to know)

Amanda


>...Artistic Gymnastics: LET'S REMEMBER BARCELONA... AND BREATHE EASILY.
>(By Natalia Kalugina, Sovetsky Sport, p. 2.) We rarely report on dual meets or
> tri-meets in artistic gymnastics. Rarely because, considering the level of
> Russia's athletes, we consider them almost warmup exercises. And what interest
> do readers have in knowing about drudge work? But perhaps the
> Italy-Romania-Russia tri-meet is worth reporting on.
> Remember what a shock we experienced in the spring, when in the team
> competition at the European Championships our girls lost to the Romanians by
> 2.5 points? We wanted to rectify this "D" performance.
> Unfortunately, the Romanian coaches preferred to field a second-string
> team at the Goodwill Games in St. Petersburg. Naturally, it was no trouble at
> all for our strongest to beat the youngsters. So the tournament didn't prove
> anything. But finally: Milosovici, Gogean and Hategan vs. Khorkina, Kochetkova
> and Fabrichnova. Natalia Tokareva, Oksana Fabrichnova's coach, relates:
> "We approached the meet almost like a world championships. Why 'almost'?
> They will really take place two months from now, and we hadn't seen our rivals
> from Europe. Marina Bulashenko, the dance coach, and I took seats as judges. Oh
> how we wanted to help our girls! But we couldn't do anything. Let's look at the
> compulsories. Unfortunately, the Romanians were more precise on vault. But we
> were ahead on the other three apparatus. Well, and then in the optionals the
> girls showed everything that they should have. By the way, let's look at the
> result sheets - don't be surprised at Dina Kochetkova's low placing. This time
> fifth place was like a gold. Her foot was hurting badly, and we had even
> thought about withdrawing her from the competition. But she decided to
> perform."
> So that's how the women's competition went. The team performances by the
> men aren't even worth writing about. For, let's face it, the figures speak for
> themselves: They beat the Italians by 8.25 points! Granted, in the AA they
> yielded to the more experienced Boris Preti. Well, that's a rectifiable matter.
> Especially since we still have two months.
>
> Results of Italy-Russia-Romania Tri-Meet in Salerno
> Women's team: 1. Russia - 388.3
> 2. Romania - 387.625
> 3. Italy - 369.8
> Women's AA: 1. Svetlana Khorkina - 78.525
> 2. Gina Gogean - 78.15
> 3. Lavinia Milosovici - 78.125
> 4. Oksana Fabrichnova - 78.025
> 5. Dina Kochetkova - 77.9
> 6. Nadia Hategan - 77.675
> Men's team: 1. Russia - 552.2
> 2. Italy - 543.95
> 3. Romania - 539.05
> Men's AA: 1. Boris Preti - 111.35
> 2. Yevgeny Shabayev - 110.25
> 3. Ye. Zhukov - 109.9
> 4. D. Trush - 108.55
> 5. Ye. Podgorny - 107.95
> 6. M. Rizan - 105.65
>
> Well, the battle for the women's team gold in Dortmund is going to be VERY
> interesting. I figured the Romanians were the favorite, but if Russia could
> beat them with Kochetkova injured... Also, I'm glad this meet was held in
> Italy, so neither Russia nor Romania had a home-court advantage. I suppose it
> didn't hurt Russia that two of their coaches were judging, but I guess I'm just
> assuming the other teams had coaches who were judging too. The article doesn't
> say though, so I don't know.
> If this meet was televised by Eurosport or Italian TV, can you let me
> know? Thanks! :)
>
> Beth
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 22:39:49 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: RUS-ROM-ITA tri-meet/Dortmund

>For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, all teams at
Dortmund will compete both compos+optionals, and *then* the top 12 teams (I
think 12) will go into the last >round (optionals only) with a clean slate.

Actually, it's only 6 teams that will go to finals, and it will be held as a
single, 6-rotation session.

>What's the point of even having compulsories? It's not like it's going to
make a difference with the top teams anyway, all will qualify based on their
optional strength.

While i agree with this point (that compulsories should count towards the
final score), I do think the preliminaries will have significant effects:

-In a close competiton for spots 5 & 6, compulsories could factor in.

-Compulsory performance may effect ranking/start order in finals
(particularly who gets to begin either on BB or with a bye). [also regarding
byes, i wonder if having a last rotation bye might be a disadvantage in
scoring? Thoughts, anyone?]

-Psychological effects on the top teams of a good/poor performance in prelims
could affect finals (for better or worse)

>What will the FIG come up with next?

Don't terrify me!

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 20:23:47 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Silly Mini-Trivia Answers: Hair

Answers, answers, answers...does anyone know the answer to the questions of
life??? No....well, here are the answers to mini-trivia (little consolation,
I know)

Thanks to Adriana for #1, #2 and Beth for #3, #4, #5


1. Who was the only Soviet to wear a bun at the '87 Rotterdam Worlds?

Tatiana Tuzhikova

2. How about the only Romanian (see above)?

Daniela Silivas

3. What gymnast won the AA at every MAJOR int'l meet she was in (except one)
when she had long hair in 1 or 2 ponytails, and failed to win the AA whenever
she cut her hair short?

Nadia Comaneci, and the exception was the 1979 World Cup. Short hair "jinxed"
her at '78 Worlds, '79 Worlds and '80 Olympics.

4. Name two gymnasts at '91 Worlds whose bushy ponytails were really the
results of perms.

Tatiana Lysenko and Sylvia Mitova

5. Which two US gymnasts recently dyed their hair (two different shades of)
brown?

Kim Zmeskal and Kristie Phillips


Hope you enjoyed my silly little exercise!!!

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 19:18:57
From: ***@by-line.win.net
Subject: Silly Mini-Trivia Questions: Hair

The only one I could even hope to answer would be #5, I think!

Would that be Shannon Miller and Soni Meduna?

No offense to these girls intended.

Flash's S/O Lori!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 02:46:44 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: World Challenge of Champions

Anyone have any results or news from this comp. that took place last week in
Canada?

-Susan

------------------------------

End of gymn Digest
******************************