GYMN-L Digest - 5 May 1995 to 6 May 1995

There are 15 messages totalling 477 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. American Cup
  2. Naming moves after people
  3. back tuck on beam
  4. random
  5. #2(2) GYMN-L Digest - 4 May 1995 to 5 May 1995
  6. One arm moves and their risk factor (2)
  7. Cottbus Grand Prix (Day One)
  8. Chinese Gymnast at Visa Cup: A Discussion.
  9. New Topic.
 11. Intro
 12. www notice
 13. National High School championships May 26-27
 14. Atlanta Tickets


Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 02:55:00 UTC
From:    ***@GENIE.GEIS.COM
Subject: Re: American Cup

Here are the '89 Am. Cup results:

 1. Brandy Johnson (USA)         39.649
 2. Olessia Dudnik (URS)         39.337
 3. Henrietta Onodi (HUN)        39.149
 4. Phoebe Mills (USA)           38.986
 5. Stella Umeh (CAN)            38.961
 6. Mari Kosuge (JPN)            38.875
 7. Karine Mermet (FRA)          37.936
 8. Diliana Vodenicharova (BUL)  36.649

 1. Vitaly Marinich (URS)        58.200
 2. Lance Ringnald (USA)         57.800
 3. Patrick Kirksey (USA)        57.300
 4. Dimitar Taskov (BUL)         57.250
 5. Li Jing (CHN)                57.200
 6. Yuri Chechi (ITA)            56.650
 7. Andre Hempel (GDR)           56.550
 8. Makoto Aihara (JPN)          56.400



Date:    Fri, 5 May 1995 23:40:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Naming moves after people

>      I was thinking the same thing! Isn't she one of the few (if not the only)
> gymnasts to have introduced a new move and/or trend on EVERY event (examples:
> the Omelianchik vault, tuck front somi from high bar to low bar, Omelianchik
> beam, back-to-back tumbling on floor). I'm sure there are more (or should be!)
> I also give her awards for toe point and a great smile! She was always a
> pleasure to watch. :)

If we're counting trends, then Shushunova has influenced every event too
-- 1-1/2 twisting Yurchenko, Shushunova on UB, Shushunova on FX and the side
1-3/4 (shouldn't this be named after her too? Can't think of any other
woman who's done it), and popularizing the Rulfova on BB (ok,
that's iffy, but she did practically reinvent it).  Btw, that would be a
tucked *back* flyaway that Omelianchik did on UB.  Also amazing is that
she, a top gymnast in the late '80s, did her entire bar set without a
single giant!  And there was the funky toe-on 1/2 to back (rather than
clear) hip circle hecht to HB.



Date:    Fri, 5 May 1995 23:45:38 -0400
Subject: Re: back tuck on beam

> > The back tuck on beam is not Olga's.  It's not attributed to her (or
> > anyone else, for that matter; it's one of those skills from before the
> > naming of skills became systematized the way it is now) in the Code, and
> > an American gymnast (Nancy Thies?) did it before Olga (and from that
> > story that was in IG a few years ago, it seems she is Not Amused that
> > everyone thinks Olga did it first).
> Yeah, Nancy Thies -- formerly of Champaign/Urbana, Illinois and the
> University of Illinois -- did it before Korbut in the same
> Olympics... by virtue of being up first on beam.

Still, if one wants to discount the time between sessions as unimportant
(and I agree with that), she at least did it at the same time as Korbut,
and it is unfair that Korbut got all the credit for it.



Date:    Fri, 5 May 1995 22:12:34 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: random

Working on a possible ptition for the Pitt men's team.  Meanwhile,
Gymners are strongly encouraged to send letters in support.

The American Cup results link on the web pages has been fixed.

If you are intersted in tapes of the men's NCAA championships, let me



Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 10:58:00 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: #2(2) GYMN-L Digest - 4 May 1995 to 5 May 1995

I am not sure where the meet will be held but I can cheak up on it and get
back to you.  Note: It is not Nationals, it is clasics, a meet held for the
level 7 and 8's who didn't qualify for Junior Olympics.



Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 14:06:32 -0400
Subject: Re: One arm moves and their risk factor

>> As for me, I do support the FIG devaluing moves that are too dangerous, but
>> I don't think one-armed UB work falls into that category.
>The question is, how do you determine what is too dangerous?  By how
>many gymnasts have been injured and how seriously?  If not that way,
>then how?  Jennifer pointed out that serious injuries can occur on
>skills that no one is suggesting be banned (at least on the elite level
>-- Yurchenkos, which were mentioned, are banned in NCAA competition).  I
>can think of more serious injuries on unbanned skills than on banned ones
>(although there may be a lot we don't hear about; I don't know).

Fig devalues moves each quadrenium as they see moves being done more and
more and realize that some are not as difficult as the technical committee
thought they were four years ago.  Sometimes a move will get a difficulty
value just because it is new not because it is hard.  Fig does make rules
based on what they want to see and to possibly limit potential injuries. On
high bar Fig only allows a person to pass through the bottom part of a swing
3 times in a one arm position during an entire routine.  This might be to
discourage too many one arm giants which could be harmful to the shoulder.
One arm release skills must be done from passing through the bottom swing in
the one arm position twice to get the higher difficulty value that a one arm
release can get. (Example Tkatchev C
one complete one arm giant throught the bottom 2nd time in one arm hang to
Tkatchev D).
  Fig also tries to influence what is done bythe way they rate certain skills.
A triple on high bar(dismount) is a D.  That's a lot of D. I think it's more
difficult than a laid out full in (D) and comparable to a double double.
Fig does not seem to agree! Just my opinion!


Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 14:06:06 -0400
Subject: Re: One arm moves and their risk factor

>There have been a few serious injuries in the mens ranks on 1 3/4 skills,
the most notable being Mark Caso of UCLA a few years ago and Devot Garrot
(sp?) of East Stroudsburg.  The head first type landings can be more
potentially dangerous because a missed landing (if you can call it that) can
cause traumatic injury to the neck.  Feet first landings can also cause
traumatic injury but most people don't think of injuries to the knees,
ankles achilles tendons ect. as being as potentially life threatening as a
neck injury.


Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 19:39:59 BST
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Cottbus Grand Prix (Day One)

Cottbus Grand Prix 1995, 29/30 April   (Part One)

This Cottbus GP has a similar format as the DTB meet in that the top
eight gymnast will compete on each apparatus and the top two scores
on each piece will perform again in a head-to-head final. The meet
was shown on DSF (German TV channel) this weekend.

Day One Results

Mens Floor

 1. Grigori Misutin             (UKR)   9.637
=2. Jorden Jovtchev             (BUL)   9.512
=2. Joannis Melissanidis        (GRE)   9.512
 4. Evgeni Podgorni             (RUS)   9.500
 5. Valeri Belenky              (GER)   9.475
 6. Alexei Nemov                (RUS)   9.425
 7. Vitaly Scherbo              (BLR)   9.100
 8. Peter Nikkiferow            (GER)   9.025


 1. Grigori Misutin             (UKR)   9.700
 2. Jorden Jovtchev             (BUL)   9.500

Womens Vault

 1. Liliya Podkopayeva          (UKR)   9.706
 2. Svetlana Khorkina           (RUS)   9.625
 3. Oksana Fabrichnova          (RUS)   9.612
 4. Dina Kochetkova             (RUS)   9.556
 5. Oksana Chusovitina          (UZB)   9.531
 6. Rufina Kreibich             (GER)   9.431
 7. Yelena Piskoun              (BLR)   9.306
 8. Irina Evdokimova            (KAZ)   9.137

 1. Liliya Podkopayeva          (UKR)   9.787
 2. Svetlana Khorkina           (RUS)   9.568

Mens Pommel Horse

 1. Grigori Misutin             (UKR)   9.612
 2. Valentin Mogilny            (RUS)   9.600
=3. Catalin Mircan              (AUT)   9.587
=3. Ivan Ivankov                (BLR)   9.587
 5. Valeri Belenky              (GER)   9.500
 6. Oliver Walther              (GER)   9.450
 7. Li Donghua                  (SUI)   9.437
 8. Evgeni Chabaev              (RUS)   8.050


=1. Valentin Mogilny            (RUS)   9.662
=1. Grigori Misutin             (UKR)   9.662

Womens Uneven Bars

Sorry I have only a few scores on this apparatus. See "Bits" below
for description of some of the routines.

Oksana Chusovitina (UZB) 9.650, Svetlana Khorkina (RUS) 9.587,
Liliya Podkopayeva (UKR) 9.025, Yelena Piskoun (BLR) 7.825
Others competing: Oksana Fabrichnova (RUS) , Rufina Kreibich (GER),
Adrienn Nyeste (HUN), and Yvonne Pioch (GER)


 1. Adrienn Nyeste              (HUN)   9.487
 2. Oksana Chusovitina          (UZB)   9.200

Mens Rings

=1. Andreas Wecker              (GER)   9.612
=1. Ivan Ivankov                (BLR)   9.612
=3. Jorden Jovtchev             (BUL)   9.562
=3. Rustam Charipov             (UKR)   9.562
=5. Oliver Walther              (GER)   9.550
=5. Valeri Belenky              (GER)   9.550
 7. Alexei Nemov                (RUS)   9.462
 8. Evgeni Chabaev              (RUS)   9.250


 1. Andreas Wecker              (GER)   9.637
 2. Ivan Ivankov                (BLR)   9.562


- Valentin Mogilny certainly showed that he is still one of the best
  on the pommels by winning (as a tie) with Grigori Misutin in this
  meet. He is still listed as under "Russia" although I believe he's
  trying to represent France soon...

- Evgeni Chabaev did not have a good day, finishing last on both
  pommels and rings. He fell twice on the pommels... he seemed to be
  flowing well but just lost it and fell...

- Oksana Fabrichnova was going well on bars until the dismount... she
  was back to attempting her double-twisting double back but she landed
  on her knees and hands. She looked distraught afterwards. I'm afraid
  I didn't have her score...

- Adrienn Nyeste of Hungary won the bars event with an interesting
  routine. Three releases: piked Jaeger, Geinger, and the third one
  I don't even know what it was... it started off like a Tkatchev except
  she regrasped the bar on the same side of her flight... it wasn't a
  Deltchev either... Her dismount was a shoot-front with 1 & 1/2 twists
  (I think!). (Sorry I don't seem to describe this properly...)

- Oksana chusovitina attempted a Tkatchev in the bars head-to-head but
  fell on it.

- The full-twisting hop over the bar caused problems with both Podkopayeva
  and Piskoun. Pods stopped her swing on it and Piskoun fell altogether.
  Piskoun fell again on her full-twisting giant. Rufina Kreibich fell
  flat on her Jaeger.

- Andreas Wecker was king of the rings agaian in the absence of Yuri

Part Two (Mens Vault, Parallel Bars, High Bar and Womens Beam, Floor)
will be shown tomorrow.



Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 16:11:32 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Chinese Gymnast at Visa Cup: A Discussion.

Hi Diane:

>But did they submit these moves for review?  If not, your #1 and >#2 don't

Actually, my arguments stand as made. :-)

My point was that a determination of whether a new move is safe or not is not
within the purvey of the judges at a meet, so that no penalty could be
assesed on the grounds of safety if none of the moves components were
previously specifically proscribed by the FIG Tech Committee.

Certainly scoring a new, non-submitted move at the meet in question is at the
discretion of the judges until a technical committee ruling is made. As you
and others have pointed out, even that much discretionary power is  subject
to abuse.

BTW, the Chinese would never submit a move in advance, for the sole reason
that they have never been given any reason to have faith in the
confidentiality of the review process, or in the goodwill of the FIG or USAG
toward China.

Take care. Great points, BTW!  :-)



Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 16:42:48 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: New Topic.

Li Ning has two.



Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 17:23:34 -0400
From:    ***@EPIX.NET
Subject: ADDRESS



Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 18:41:26 EDT
Subject: Intro

Hi, my name is Krystal. Im 13 years old. I live in Ohio[USA].I practice
5 times a week as a level 8.How did you find out about this? I found a ad in the
Gym Stars magazine from Great Britain. My favorite gymnasts are Kim Zmeskal,
Amanda Borden, Dominique Moceanu,Jennie Thompson,Lilia Podkopayeva,
Dina Kotcheckova,Gina Gogean,Elena Piskun,and some older ones, Nadia
Comaneci,Natalia Lashenova , Elena Moukina,and many more.So-how many
people are going to the Olympics? I've ordered tickets for the womens events
and hope to get them.I think it should be first come first serve,but they pick

Im so happy I found out about this gymnastics line because gymnastics is my
life! Its all I ever think about. It is so interesting to hear what everyone has
to say.
I cant wait to hear from everyone!


Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 17:01:06 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: www notice

Please note that if you have the Gymn pages linked to your home page,
please change the URL to

This is identical to the current URL except the server name is changed
from "" to ""  The new name works now.
The old name will work for three more months but will then be no
longer effective.  (RMII is adding a second web server for businesses
that they are naming "", thus the conflict.)



Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 22:05:15 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: National High School championships May 26-27

The item below was a PR piece, so I doubt copyright infringement is a problem

GYMNASTICS CHAMPIONSHIPS: Many of the nation's finest senior girls and boys
gymnasts will compete in the National High School championships May 26-27 at
the California Sports Center (old Blackford campus) in San Jose.
Preliminaries are May 26, the finals May 27, though starting times have not
been announced. Tickets are $5 for adults, $3 for students. Children under 12
are free.

For more information, call the California Sports Center at (408) 246-7795.


Date:    Sat, 6 May 1995 22:50:10 -0400
From:    ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: Atlanta Tickets

Question for those out there who have a clue on how teams are
going to be scheduled for the Olympics....

When ordering tickets in the ticket brochure for compulsories and team
optionals there are two sessions.....i guess you have no idea what
team or athletes you will get to this correct...i.e. do the
best teams perform in the second session for optionals...i know for
compulsories all team members dont compete in the same
least that is how it was in Barcelona...

Bottom line any advice when deciding on which session to purchase
tickets for...the second sessions are more expensive on the last
day...i believe this is the case due to the medal ceremony...

any suggestions will be appreciated...


End of GYMN-L Digest - 5 May 1995 to 6 May 1995