GYMN-L Digest - 6 Apr 1995

There are 11 messages totalling 355 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. peachtree timre
  2. Mtn Pac / Mark Booth
  3. substituting gymnasts (was tv overkill)
  5. Negativity
  6. Opinion poll
  7. 1995 Gymnix International report
  8. ESPN/Peachtree
  9. New Ideas (2)
 10. Late mail... (problems in system)


Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:22:32 -0400
Subject: peachtree timre

is the peachtree being aired again on friday night/saturday morning or
saturday night/sunday morning???the 3;30 am thing threw me! adrienne


Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:16:11 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Mtn Pac / Mark Booth

> Mark Booth had several very devastating injuries that would have knocked
> most people write out of competitive gymnastics.  At regionals in Oklahoma
> he broke both ankles on landing his fullin on floor.  he stuck it, and then
> fell down.  Two years later, at the same meet, at the same gym, he broke his
> achilles on his opening tumbling pass.  Also, did he have shoulder surgery?
> I do agree with a lack of fire, though.  There were many meets where i saw him
> warming up an amazing whip to full-in (much higher than anyone elses full-in
> handspring), and then he would just implode mentally.  one of two things would
> happen in the meet.  he would either scratch completely, or he would water
> his set.
> Since the subject of this message is mtn pacific stuff, i will include
 something from
> that first meet.  It was floor finals, and mark could have easily won it, but
> his second pass, he was a little off balance, and stepped out of bounds.  he
> his eyes for the rest of his set, with a shit eating grin on his face.  one
 tiny mistake
> and he throws the whole routine in the garbage.  he still ended up getting
> third on floor.
> josh

Well I watered down my words for that post because i have been skewered
for my choice of words in the past.....
But now JOSH said it so I can blame HIM !
(neener neener...)

Yeah "mentally imploded" is EXACTLY what I meant.
He just gives up without a FIGHT !
Nice guy but so fragile, drives my crazy.

I wish there was some way to make him more of a fighter.
(Now I just hope no one quotes this list to him and stir up a hornets nest
and get him pissed at me)


Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:32:15 -0700
From:    ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: substituting gymnasts (was tv overkill)

> > >i am looking for opinions here- what do y'all think about the way the
> > >'soviets' used to sub in people if the 'good' gymnast did not make
> > >finals-like in '90 Goodwill Games when svetlana was 'subbed' for
> >
> >         Well this was not a 'Soviet' trick.  Other teams do it just as
> > much, even at Goodwill '90 AA there were like two other teams that did it.
> As I recall, it was a Soviet "trick" until about '89 or '90.  Does anyone
> remember whether anyone else did this (or at least did it with such
> regularity) before that time?

        Well I can only think of one main time before '89, and that was
'85 when Moste and Baraksonova were pulled for Shush and Omelianchik
(European Champ and USSR National Champ resp.).  The latter both had
mistakes on bars in the team competition, but were replaced into the AA
and then tied for 1st.  But you have to remember that their previous
scores carried over into AA finals, so they were substituted in with a
handicap.  Also that would mean no medals on bars for the Soviets, since
Yurtchenko also fell in prelims and after M and B were replaced they were
disqualified from further competition.
        So really when I think about this case it doesn't seem that the
USSR was being "ruthless" or evil or cheating in any way, but were getting
around the ridiculous rules that kept their gymnasts out from finals.
Like I said, teams with depth should not be punished because of it.  I'm
sorry but the USSR would have won anyway (Szabo fell her first event in),
it was just up to them to decide who.  Kersten World AA champ I think not.
        This was just a famous case, especially since they made history by
tying for first, but anyway I was sure I had a point, oh yes when else did
they substitute gymnasts before Goodwill '90?  Europeans or anything?



Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:24:52 -0400

 Comments about Peachtree,( This got posted wrong, so I'm reposting.)


  I have to agree that the new routine looks alot better than her
  old, especially the tumbling. I am still waiting for that Double layout that
  Steve referred to at Barcelona that Shannon was working
  on. BTW: I don't know this so I am asking, SO DON't FLAME ME!!!!:

 Shannon did a first pass of RO, whip,whip, ff,ff, tucked full in.

  My question is about the value of the sequence. How much bonus does
  she get for this pass? Does the two whips upgrade the tucked full-in to an
  E (or is it already?), Is there a value difference between atucked and
  piked full-in? How about a Double layout and a double that was layout on the
  first and a pike on the second?

 2) The becoming more common front tumbling:

  I was rather impressed that Phelps did a front stepout, front
  handspring double front (though she landed on her butt.) I am still
  waiting for some one to best Olga Strahzeva's combo: Fronthandspring-front
  flip-flop-double front-foward roll-immediate FF w a 1/2 turn, RO, FF, FF,
  arabian 1 and 3/4 roll out. (I know that the arabian is now
  not allowed,but it was at USA vs. USSR ('88) and you have to admit:
   THAT'S One Hell of a TOUCH SEQUENCE!)

 (What about back tumbling: Anyone seen Natalia Frolova's combo beat yet:

 RO FF 1 & 1/2 RO FF 3/1 twist ! How does she stand still after all that

3) Best Floor:

I would have to give best floor tumbling to Olga Strahzeva (see above), where
as best artistry would go to Boginskya, without a doubt in my mind. Her
movements are just beautiful.



Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:25:46 -0700
Subject: Negativity

Hi Everyone,

I have not written before, but I have been reading a lot of negative posts
lately that have inspired me to respond.  I am a recently retired Stanford
gymnast, and have been quite dismayed by the negative comments regarding college
 gymnastics that I have seen posted recently.  People need to keep in mind that
 college gymnasts' bodies can not take the kind of training that 12-year-old
bodies can, and therefore, the skill level in college gymnastics is often a
bit lower than our top elite competitors.  In addition, I was shocked to hear
criticism of the form of the college competitors.  I have found that division
one college gymnasts on the whole have MUCH cleaner form and show more
 maturityin their dance and performance quality than many of our level ten and
gymnasts.  It is true that some form breaks are overlooked, but we all know
that form breaks are often overlooked even in world class competitions.
College gymnasts should be appreciated for their grace, style, and longstanding
committment and dedication to our sport, not condemned because they are scored
slightly higher than our elites.  College gymnasts are rewarded for showing
polish and originality as well as sheer daredevil trick.  This must be realized
in order to understand college scoring (or shall I say have a clue as to how
the gymnasts are scored.)

I would also like to respond to the comments regarding Mark Booth.  Mark is an
incredibly talented athlete.  He can do things that I have never seen any other
gymnast (male or female) do.  Mark has had many injuries while he has been at
Stanford, and this is what is responsible for his performance problems.
Several people have commented that Mark "lacks fire", but I see it as a lack
of confidence in the face of injury.  Mark has a classic case of what those
familiar with sports psychology know as performance anxiety.  Put simply, Mark
get nervous when he is out there and just freezes up.  He has been working a
lot on this lately, and I hope that he can put it into practice on the
competition floor.  Yes, Mark has seen many of his teammates pass him by, and
this is frustrating and  blow to one's confidence.  He has not been passed by
due to a lack of fire, however.  Injuries and nerves have been Mark's nemeses
and I hope that he can overcome them......Do not write him off just yet.



Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:35:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Opinion poll

On Thurs.March 6, 1995 Cole writes:

> OK.  Here's one for all of you that should get your minds going...
> All the talk recently about Shannon's new floor routine inspired a thought :
> Whose floor routine do you think was the BEST of all time?  I know, I know,
> it's
> a tough call but it should generate a lot of discussion!  Here are my picks :
> Cole
> --- End Included Message ---

IMHO, the best floor routines ever were a tie between Mary Lou Retton's
1984 Olympics routine (forgot music to it) and Kim Zmeskal's "Rock Around
the Clock & Johnny B. Goode" routine.



Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:44:50 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: 1995 Gymnix International report

>Shapornaya was tall and long, but pretty much an average Soviet gymnast.

Is there such a thing?

>VAULT  1-Podkopayeva 9.750, 2-Cousineau 9.4125, 3-O.Yurkina 9.400

A *Yurkina* in vault finals?!?!?!?!?



Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:23:34 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: ESPN/Peachtree

I think Maura D used to be a gymnast for UCLA. She and the guy commentated
for the gold spectacular back in december.  Bart and kathy j. also
commentated for goodwill games on TBS or whatever station it was on. I dont
like bart at commentating.  too many "wows"
Also for stupid things at peachtree-the guy said well be back with shannons
scores when we continue and they were on the screen in front of shannon.



Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:55:34 -0400
From:    ***@FIT.EDU
Subject: Re: New Ideas

> The requirements on high bar are already harder to get than the
> other events.

        I thought pommel horse was the hard one to get requirements for?
Or is it just the bonus that's hard to get?



Date:    Fri, 7 Apr 1995 09:48:00 -0600
Subject: Late mail... (problems in system)

  Anne's message of 2nd April was delayed because of confusion between
  e-mail account names when logged in through different software packages!
    I hope that I manage at this attempt.

    Date:    Sunday 2nd April 1995

    Subject: Re: The Oscars

    On Tue, March 28, Adriana wrote:
    >>Anyone know who she was?  I tried to get a good look at her face,
    >> but it was hard.  I was thinking maybe of Michelle Berube, but I
    >> didn't think the body type was right.<
    From:    Alexis - <Xrose@AOL.COM>
    > It was Michelle Berube.  Last night EXTRA did a special report on
    > her dancing in the Oscar show and showed a clip of the rehersal of
    > the Lion King number.

    The announcer on Australian TV said it was KASUMI TAKAHASHI who
     was the individual RSG gymnast in the Lion King item.  Kasumi won
     5 Gold medals in the Commonwealth Games in Vancouver, Canada whilst
    representing Australia.  She trains and lives in Los Angeles and is
    a beautiful and artistic 14 year old gymnast.  Her mother is Australian
    and her father Japanese - internationally she represents Australia.

    Concerning the current discussions about the Australian Olympic Athlete
    Plan:  Each Olympic sport has been asked to put together a plan to
    ensure Australia competes well in the 2000 Olympics in Sydney.
    The Australian Gymnastic Federation Plan is quite ambitious in gymnastic
    terms.  To ensure the success of the plan and give the talented gymnasts
    who desire to be part of the team in 2000 a chance to achieve their goals,
    a national plan including many specialist coaches, upgraded facilities and
    much attention to the education and welfare of the children is being
    implemented.  From 1997 National squad gymnasts working towards 2000
    (ie turning 13 in 1997) may be invited to train at the National Training
    Centre for varying periods of time.  The gymnast and her family will
    always have a choice to relocate (with or without her family) or to train
    in her State High Performance Centre.  The A.G.F. believes that the total
    development of the gymnast should always be of prime importance.  It also
    has an obligation to offer Australia's talented boys and girls every
    opportunity to achieve their goals.


Date:    Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:03:31 EDT
From:    ***@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: New Ideas

On Pommel Horse the requirements are:
a one pommel B, 2 scissors, and a B on each end of the horse.

On High Bar the requirements  are:
a release B, a elgrip B, and a in-bar B.

Eventhough I find Pommel Horse the most difficult event
I think High Bar's requirements are harder.



End of GYMN-L Digest - 6 Apr 1995