Thu, 1 Sep 94 Volume 3 :
Bret Hudson's Commonwealth Foot Injury
Browns' Business Sense (2 msgs)
jennie t/dynamo gymnasts
Jennie Thompson (4 msgs)
Mens Nationals From The Stands
National's TV Ratings
NCAA Gymnsts On Nat'l Team
Sarah Cain question
The rest of the Nationals stuff
US Women's Team Poll
women's scoring-where's the punch line? (2 msgs)
Women's US World Team Trials (2 msgs)
This is a digest of the firstname.lastname@example.org mailing list.
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 02:04:55 EDT
Subject: Bret Hudson's Commonwealth Foot Injury
Taken from the Oz AP written by Bruce Montgomerie ... all direct quotes noted
Aussie gymnast Bret Hudon "suffered a compression fracture of the tibia,
including two chips, in his right foot in his last Games trial before
leaving for Canada." He arrived home today (Sydney) and may have to have
surgery on the damaged foot. Despite the injury he won gold (vault) and
silver (team) medals at the Commonwealth Games last week (2 weeks ago? I'm
outta' touch) in Victoria.
[Hudson on his performance & injury] "I didn't expect to be as successful as
I was ... My foot didn't hurt the first day I competed as the adrenalin took
over. But the last few days it was rough to get through with the pain and it
is hurting now."
[Bret on the upswing in Oz gymnastics - I would assume he's talking
specifically about the men] "Hopefully our efforts have done a lot of good
and will encourage young people into the sport. Australian gymanstics is
definitely on the way up and we have at least three in the top 20-25. We
should have at least two in the top 10 in the next two years."
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 19:38:21 EDT
Subject: Browns' Business Sense
Someone on here had commented about Browns gym in Orlando being run very
well on the business side. I, too, have heard the same thing.
In fact, a year or two ago, I learned that Browns was franchising its
name. A team called "Browns" had come to Gainesville, and I went to the meet,
expecting to see above-par gymnastics, but it wasn't. That's when a coach
turned around and said, "Oh, this isn't the real Brown's. They just bought
I wonder, is a Browns' franchise like a McDonald franchise? In other
words, if you buy one, does Browns supply you with the equipment and help on
Or does a Browns gym automatically come with McCoaches, McGymnasts and a
"Yes, I'd like to order a 10.00 bars set, a cool judge and a good crowd."
"That will be $120,000. Thank you and please drive through."
---- A Grinning Ronald
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 09:18:07 -0400
Subject: Browns' Business Sense
I believe the "Browns" that you are referring to is Browns Metro
here in Orlando. It opened around two years ago, and is only
loosly associated with the Browns organization (HEAVY emphasis on
the loosly). I will check with Rita next chance I get (The gym is
closed today thru monday).
BTW there are 3 "official" Browns gyms (as listed on my
daughters Browns team bag). Browns Central in Altamonte Springs FL
is the main gym where Wendy, Jenny B., Mohini, and my daughter
train (ok, so Mandy is only a level 6, but it made me feel good
to list her in that group). Browns Winter Park (FL) is a slightly
smaller - more recreational oriented gym. There is another gym
listed in Houston that was added just recently that I don't know
much more than rumors about yet.
I will post more info next week.
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 19:44:04 -0400 (EDT)
I met Shannon's mom at the 92 Worlds, and from what she said, the Dynamo
girls are under tremendous pressure. Steve is rather fanatical about weight,
and Claudia (Shannon's mom) told me that Shannon came home in tears one day
because Steve had yelled at her for gaining a pound. And this was 92 - when
Shannon had not reached puberty and didn't have an ounce of fat on her!!
Fortunately for Shannon, Claudia is feisty, and she went right to the gym and
yelled right back at Steve. But the whole thing makes me wonder about the girls
who don't have parents in the area or whose parents won't stand up to Steve. I
am fairly certain he and Claudia don't get along, because when I met him for
the first time in 92, I mentioned that I knew Claudia and he said "I feel sorry
for you." I thought that was an extremely strange thing to say to a complete
stranger who had just introduced herself as a friend of Claudia's! And to top
it off, Shannon was sitting right there! Real nice thing to say in front of
her... I don't know what makes that man tick, but from all I've seen and heard
of him since 92, it doesn't sound like the emotional health of his gymnasts is
a top priority for him. Everyone hears the horror stories about Bela, and I
don't doubt that they're true, but it's a scary thought that when Kerri chose
to leave a gym, it wasn't Karolyi's but Nunno's...
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 16:00:36 -0700 (MST)
Subject: jennie t/dynamo gymnasts
The reason all the Dynamo kids look like they're under a lot of
pressure is because they are. Their coaches are so sadistically obsessed
with perfection that they've tried to make all these little girls into
little Shannons because they don't know how to coach anybody else. The
reason they're the top club in the country is that most of the talent went
there after Barcelona in search of this supposed "fantastic" coaching that
Shannon has been getting. They have a huge reputation to live up to,
trying to prove that they aren't just a flash-in-the-pan gym, so they keep
trying to duplicate their earlier successes with all the new kids, right
down to their Shannon hair bows and floor music. They are coaching that
only one style (Shannon's) is correct. These kids are feeling the
pressure. Let's face it- Steve Nunno and possibly Peggy too have got the
biggest heads around. They used to be normal people before Barcelona but
are now so convinced that they are the hottest stuff around that they are
totally obnoxious people at meets and sore losers too. It is absolutely
unnecessary pressure that they are placing on their gymnasts-the girls
can't handle it and are starting to leave (Strug, Maiers). They are not
improving there, possibly when they're trying to emulate someone else.
When Shannon retires, the whole Dynamo thing will just fall apart I bet.
All the Dynamo gymnasts are walking time bombs. They need to find
healthier coaching situations. Looking at all the gold medalists at
nationals, the programs are there.
I have spoken.
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 17:41:55 EDT
Subject: Jennie Thompson
Brett so nicely left my name out but I am the one that said that Jennie
"unpoints" her toes. I having personally viewd Jennie "up close and
personal" as it were would guess her nearer to 6 then 13 but that's neither
here nor there.
I have never seen a little girl under more stress in my life. She makes
Shannon, Marianna, and Kerri look positively relaxed. Her form is hideous ...
actually worse then it used to be if that's possible. Two years ago it was
Moceanu that I thought would end up being the ugly stunted runt with a few
tricks and a lot of hype but she - not much taller then Jennie - has turned
into a lovely if still slightly immature gymnast. Good difficulty, nice form,
and an emerging sense of style. The only thing I see in Jennie is a sense of
impending doom and utter terror.
Jennie's feet are so flat that this girl would never get into the army. Her
every move seems a struggle equal to invading Russia mid-winter and - in my
mind this is the biggest part of her problem - she looks like she's having
about as much fun as a root canal sans anesthesia.
I realize that athletes are determined and serious in competition but I
*never* saw Jennie relax. Not in training, practice, or even while hanging
out with her fellow Dynamo gymnasts. I don't necessarily blame either Steve
or Peggy for this or even gymnastics in general but something is driving this
kid and whatever that is it's not making her happy ... at least not right
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 18:41:45 EDT
Subject: Jennie Thompson
I can't believe I'm actually hearing this. You don't like Jennie's form,
fine, it needs some work. She definitely needs alot of polishing, but she's
also an unbelievable talent. Do you think someone just magically told the
media to hype her, Bela and Steve to say she's the best 13 year old they've
ever seen (how many things can you think of they agree on?), and the judges
to just start overscoring her? Great form is a beautiful thing. This is the
same group pointing out how tired and code heavy SHannon's floor is right?
But she does it with great form, I'm confused. I also actually heard it be
the consensus that the announcers are way too negative nowadays. To me, the
difference between Tim Daggett and what I'm hearing here is that Tim doesn't
try to come up with cutsie little metaphors to bash someone. Jennie Thompson
tumbles more powerfully than any 13 year old I've ever seen. Line and form
is greatly aided by some sort of height and maturity that Jennie can only
wait for. Certain aspects of her abilites are so far beyond everyone elses
its scary, and certain aspects need serious work, I'm not disagreeing. I
don't know Jennie Thompson, I've only met her twice. I've also seen her
relax and have fun. I would never declare that she was just some miserable
and unhappy person unless I was basing it on something besides how she looks
in a workout or at a meet. The media and educated fans always build people
up beyond reality, then knock them flatter than could possibly be accurate.
I know of a couple of things that Jennie is going through at home and in the
gym that could definitely be putting some serious pressure on her, and I also
know she needs alot of work to be as great as some of the hype I've seen--
I'd even go so far as to say its almost impossible she'll reach the level
some people have already placed her at. Still, I'd never condemn a 13 year
old who just has had the successes Jennie Thompson has had in the last couple
of years as a might've been. I also know that alot of people who build
champions for a living are dying to get their hands on that little "might've
been." Beyond that, I can tell you for someone so overhyped its absolutely
amazing to me how much her peers and teammates respect and admire her. I
like Jennie Thompons alot thanks. I know she's not what she's hyped to be at
this point, but she's an absolutely amazing gymnast and has potential beyond
reason. With the right amount of work and some luck, she just might realize
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 21:12:32 EDT
Subject: Jennie Thompson
I'm with Mike. And I'd like to know how many of you people who are
putting Jenny Thompson down have spent 6 hours a day, 6 days a week
year after year working as hard as this young lady has. Give the kid
a break - she's only thirteen years old.
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 22:17:56 EDT
Subject: Jennie Thompson
>Am I the only one in the country who feels that Jennie Thompson is just an
embarrassment to artistic gymnastics?
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 19:38:11 EDT
Subject: Mens Nationals From The Stands
I've been watching the comments go back and forth on the quality of men's
My only comment is that during all-arounds, I was bored out of my skull
half-way through and so were people around me up in the nose-bleed section.
By the fifth rotation, people actually were leaving the auditorium, like
the meet was a bad movie whose ending was not worth watching.
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 01:56:25 EDT
Subject: National's TV Ratings
Found this on the AP and thought fellow "Gymn-ers" may be interested ... keep
looking gymnastics is in there
Prime-time ratings as compiled by the A.C. Nielsen Co. for Aug. 22-28. Top 20
listings include the week's ranking, with rating for the week, season-to-date
rankings in parentheses, and total homes.
An "X" in parentheses denotes one-time-only presentation. A rating measures
the percentage of the nation's 94.2 million TV homes. Each ratings point
represents 942,000 households.
1. (1) "Home Improvement," ABC, 17.6 rating, 16.5 million homes.
2. (2) "Grace Under Fire," ABC, 17.2, 16.2 million homes.
3. (3) "Frasier," NBC, 15.0, 14.1 million homes.
4. (4) "Seinfeld," NBC, 14.9, 14.0 million homes.
5. (5) "Roseanne," ABC, 14.5, 13.6 million homes.
5. (6) "60 Minutes," CBS, 14.5, 13.6 million homes.
7. (8) "Ellen," ABC, 13.2, 12.4 million homes.
8. (x) "NFL Preseason: Chicago at Kansas City," ABC, 13.1, 12.3 million
9. (11) "Murder, She Wrote," CBS, 12.7, 11.9 million homes.
10. (14) "Murphy Brown," CBS, 12.1, 11.3 million homes.
11. (x) "CBS Tuesday Movie: And The Sea Will Tell, Part 2," CBS, 12.0,
11.3 million homes.
12. (x) "NBC Monday Night Movie: The Final Appeal," NBC, 11.8, 11.1
13. (x) "CBS Sunday Movie: The Corpse Had A Familiar Face," CBS, 11.6,
10.9 million homes.
14. (18) "Sister, Sister," ABC, 11.5, 10.8 million homes.
14. (15) "20-20," ABC, 11.5, 10.8 million homes.
16. (x) "Dateline NBC-Thursday," NBC, 11.3, 10.6 million homes.
17. (12) "Dateline NBC," NBC, 11.1, 10.4 million homes.
17. (26) "Love and War," CBS, 11.1, 10.4 million homes.
17. (42) `NBC Sunday Night Movie: Victim of Love: The Shannon Mohr Story,"
NBC, 11.1, 10.4 million homes.
20. (30) "Dave's World," CBS, 10.9, 10.2 million homes.
21. (22) "Full House," ABC, 10.6.
21. (28) "Nanny," CBS, 10.6.
21. (24) "Northern Exposure," CBS, 10.6.
24. (25) "Now with Tom and Katie," NBC, 10.5.
25. (18) "Unsolved Mysteries," NBC, 10.3.
25. (21) "Wings," NBC, 10.3.
27. (32) "Law and Order," NBC, 10.2.
28. (35) "ABC Sunday Night Movie: A View To A Kill," ABC, 10.1.
29. (41) "Married...With Children," Fox, 9.9.
30. (x) "Blossom," NBC, 9.8.
30. (7) "48 Hours," CBS, 9.8.
30. (28) "Rescue: 911," 9.8.
33. (23) "Primetime Live," ABC, 9.5.
34. (43) "Wings - Tueday," NBC, 9.4.
35. (32) "Hangin' With Mr. Cooper," ABC, 9.3.
36. (30) "Phenom," ABC, 9.2.
37. (48) "Fresh Prince Of Bel Air," NBC, 9.1.
37. (52) "One West Waikiki," CBS, 9.1.
37. (43) "Simpsons Two," Fox, 9.1
37. (36) "Step By Step," ABC, 9.1.
41. (52) "Eye To Eye with Connie Chung," CBS, 9.0.
41. (38) "She TV," ABC, 9.0.
43. (26) "Mad About You - Thursday," NBC, 8.8.
43. (x) "Nanny," CBS, 8.8.
43. (37) "Walker, Texas Ranger," CBS, 8.8.
46. (x) "My So-Called Life," ABC, 8.7.
46. (58) "Turning Point," ABC, 8.7.
48. (43) "Family Matters," ABC, 8.6.
49. (51) "Lois and Clark," ABC, 8.4.
50. (40) "Boy Meets World," ABC, 8.3.
51. (48) "America's Funniest Home Videos," ABC, 7.8.
51. (62) "Simpsons," Fox, 7.8.
51. (39) "Thunder Alley," ABC, 7.8.
54. (x) "Too Good To Be True," NBC, 7.7.
55. (52) "Hotel Malibu," CBS, 7.6.
56. (x) "Fox Preseason Football: N.Y. Giants at Chicago Bears," Fox, 7.4.
56. (67) "John Larroquette Show," NBC, 7.4.
58. (59) "Burke's Law," CBS, 7.3.
59. (46) "Diagnosis Murder," CBS, 7.1.
60. (x) "Commish,", ABC, 7.0.
61. (x) "Bob Hope: Young Comedian," NBC, 6.9.
61. (71) "George Carlin Show," Fox, 6.9.
61. (74) "Picket Fences," CBS, 6.9.
61. (67) "TV Nation," NBC, 6.9.
65. (64) "Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman," CBS, 6.7.
65. (x) "M.A.N.T.I.S.," Fox, 6.7.
65. (55) "New American Funniest People," ABC, 6.7.
68. (x) "Muddling Through," CBS, 6.6.
68. (x) "X-Files Special 2," Fox, 6.6.
70. (x) "X-Files," Fox, 6.3.
71. (63) "Christy," CBS, 6.0.
71. (x) "First Gentleman," CBS, 6.0.
71. (x) "Mommies-Special," NBC, 6.0.
74. (x) "Empty Nest," NBC, 5.9.
75. (67) " Living Single," Fox, 5.8.
75. (x) "U.S. Gymnastics Championships," NBC, 5.8.
75. (x) "U.S. Gymnastics Championships," NBC, 5.8
I stopped after that but there was only 92 in all ... pretty depressing.
Wonder why we don't get more TV coverage? I can't believe that gym did worse
then a Bob Hope special. Oh the horror!!!!!
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 16:38:57 -0700 (MST)
Subject: NBC Coverage
Wow! A network person who will respond to our complaints about gymn
coverage! (I just joined gymn.) It's a dream come true...
1) Show more routines.
2) Show more routines.
3) Don't feel the need to slo-mo every routine to death. Only
show a major error or particularly spectacular move-so you can show more
routines in the time alotted! I get annoyed seeing Tkatchevs from
Shannon. Who cares?
4) Ditch Maryanne Grabavoy. She talks to the gymnasts as if they
were retarded two year-olds. She just makes herself look like that way
instead and it's downright insulting to the gymnasts.
5) Don't get so involved in their personal lives. It's none of
our business that Dominique Dawes' father is abusive and that her family
is dysfunctional. Making her cry during an interview (with Grabavoy of
course) during 94 Mixed Pairs was soooooo tacky I couldn't believe it.
6) Don't hype up the juniors so much. Usually the ones that get
hyped never "get it together" so to speak anyway. Who was Kristie
7) I thought your profile on Romania during the Budget dual meet
coverage was fantastic! DO one on the ex-USSR nations during the
Dortmund telecast please!!!!!
8) I don't care whether you show stuff during prime time or at 6 am
or whatever. I realize you charge more for prime time advertizing but
usually you only go for like an hour. Doesn't it equal out if you
show five hours in the wee hours in the morning? People will watch. I
I am writing these suggestions with the impression that you will
be covering Dortmund Worlds. Am I correct? Usually ABC does Worlds in WW
o S but then again they've never ventured to show team before. Overall I
feel NBC does the best job with gym coverage of the three main networks (not
saying much here) but I still think that Turner Television (TBS,TNT) does
the best job of anyone on TV.
Just some suggestions...
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 19:37:54 EDT
Subject: NCAA Gymnsts On Nat'l Team
Gymn member Raul hit on a real good point about the very real
chance of *multiple* collegiate gymnasts being on the national team if
compulsories are dropped.
Prior to seeing this national competition, I was of the opinion that
maybe the top 2-3 NCAA women's all-arounders would have a shot.
Not so anymore. Look at Martha Grubbs. She placed 9th and *is* a
collegiate gymnast (at University of Florida). Off the top of my head, I can
think of 7 or so NCAA all-arounders who are better in optionals than Grubbs.
And there are twice that many better than Wendy Bruce, who placed 17th or
I'm very excited about the prospect of real *women* out there competing.
I think it will be a thrilling, exciting change to see a Jenny Hansen, Agina
Simpkins or Beth Wymer walk out there with mucles rippling and throwing
tricks that are sky-high.
But the addition of collegiate gymnasts to nationals raises interesting
questions. For example, collegiate gymnasts may not even be able to qualify
for nationals if the qualifiers are during the collegiate season. It seems to
me that the federation would have to give automatic entries if that were the
And lets say that 5-7 collegiate gymnasts place on the national team.
Most of them likely would not want to do much traveling for national or
international meets, particularly during the off-collegiate season.
If that's the case, would the federation have to raise the number on the
national team to 30 to have enough gymnast to use for the various national
and international meets?
Again, more questions to make you go, "Hmmmmmm."
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 18:17:08 EDT
Subject: Sarah Cain question
Can anyone give me anymore info on Sarah Cain? All I really know is she
is from Grand Island, Nebraska.
Thanks for any help.
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 07:16:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: The rest of the Nationals stuff
My sincere apologies for not sending the USA Nationals stuff in
promptly. I'm really busy at work right now -- and I'd rather do a
full write-up late, than a sketchy write-up now. So, this is just a
note to say that sometime this weekend, I will post:
1. A File with full results. (Since all those other had the ^H things.)
2. My take on the event finals for men and women.
3. Transcripts of the event finals interviews.
4. Some observations from the banquet.
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 22:18:19 EDT
Subject: US Women's Team Poll
I hope I'm not stepping on your toes, Rachele, in suggesting we do a poll on
who the US women's team for Dortmund will be.
Since there are 7 spots, list the 7 gymnasts you think most likely to make
the team, IN ORDER:
[ex: 1. Latynina, 2. Tourischeva, etc.]
1st place-7 points
2nd place-6 points
and on down the line to 7th place (1 point).
No, "well if Miller goes then this, if she doesn't then that." If you want
her on your list, include her. If not, don't.
Please send your responses to me via PRIVATE E-MAIL, NOT THE LIST. I'll
tally (deadline is 3pm Saturday 9/3) the results and post them.
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 19:38:03 EDT
Subject: Wendy's Tattoo
Sheesh, they made Wendy cover up her tattoo? Oh please. As long as it
wasn't vulgar, this would seem to be truly bordering a Constituation Freedom
of Expression violation.
Besides, anything that makes the meet just a tad bit different is good for
USA Gymnastics. Everytime Wendy did a routine, they would have been looking
for the tattoo, and Wendy would have becomea mini-celebrity. What's so wrong
What if she had a particularly interesting birthmark on her leg? Would
they force her to cover it?
These are questions that make you go, "Hmmmmmm."
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 22:17:40 EDT
Subject: women's scoring-where's the punch line?
>Out of curiousity, how long do gymnasts usually stick with the same
Most change once a year. It's not uncommon to see a routine for 2 years, but
3 years with the same music is seriously pushing it. Of course, then there's
Lyudmila Stobchatayaia (7 seasons and counting - is she retired now?)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 23:30:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: women's scoring-where's the punch line?
> >Out of curiousity, how long do gymnasts usually stick with the same
> Most change once a year. It's not uncommon to see a routine for 2 years, but
> 3 years with the same music is seriously pushing it. Of course, then there's
> Lyudmila Stobchatayaia (7 seasons and counting - is she retired now?)
> Didn't Hope Spivey keep the SAME floor routine (to Cats) during her entire
elite career? I'd like to see Shannon get a new floor routine too, but at least
she's offered us 2 different ones in her career so far. I was so sick of Hope's
routine by 1988 that I could barely stand to watch it anymore! I like her NCAA
routines a lot more!
I think Szabo gets the award for changing her floor the most often. For a
while there, it seemed like she had a new floor routine in every meet she was
in. That was refreshing!
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 02:05:08 EDT
Subject: Women's US World Team Trials
With all this talk of trials I'm not sure that anyone's mentioned the
It's sponsered by the "NationsBank" & it will be held in Richmond, VA October
15th and 16th. I'm assuming one day for compos and another for optionals. The
top 16 girls from Nationals excepting petitions will compete. I wonder if the
girls that will not be of age (you must be 15 before Dec. 31 '94 to compete)
will be allowed to compete in trials (what's the point?) and if not will the
girls in the lower places move up into the top 16? ESPN will broadcast the
trials and this is tentatively scheduled to air on the 29th. For more info
contact the USAG at (317) 237-5050.
BTW, does anyone know what happened to the RSG Int'l scheduled for sometime
in Oct.? Did they scrap that plan? The US could really use some Int'l rhytmic
exposure to highten interest in the sport.
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 08:29:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Women's US World Team Trials
> With all this talk of trials I'm not sure that anyone's mentioned the
> specifics ...
> It's sponsered by the "NationsBank" & it will be held in Richmond, VA October
> 15th and 16th. I'm assuming one day for compos and another for optionals. The
> top 16 girls from Nationals excepting petitions will compete. I wonder if the
> girls that will not be of age (you must be 15 before Dec. 31 '94 to compete)
> will be allowed to compete in trials (what's the point?) and if not will the
> girls in the lower places move up into the top 16? ESPN will broadcast the
> trials and this is tentatively scheduled to air on the 29th. For more info
> contact the USAG at (317) 237-5050.
> BTW, does anyone know what happened to the RSG Int'l scheduled for sometime
> in Oct.? Did they scrap that plan? The US could really use some Int'l rhytmic
> exposure to highten interest in the sport.
At nationals when they called out the top group of competitors Stormy
Eaton announced that they had brought out 17 since Jennie Thompson was,
"just too young to compete" at worlds. I would assume that the 17th girl
will be allowed to compete at the trials. I don't know if Jennie will be
allowed to go just for the experience.
End of gymn Digest