gymn Digest Thu, 3 Feb 94 Volume 2 : Issue 68

Today's Topics:
Comments
Georgia Dome (2 msgs)
Georgia Dome in '95
Georgia Dome in '95?
Men's gymnastics & popularity (2 msgs)
Miller and Strug update
more scattered thoughts
NCAA Women's Individual Rankings
NCAA Women's Team Rankings
Reese's Cup
Reese's Cup Comments
Reese's televised et al (2 msgs)
Sara Rabold
scattered subjects (3 msgs)
Trivia Set #10, questions

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 03:37:13 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Comments

To answer random questions and make assorted comments:

Jair Lynch has graduated.

I second Robyn's comments on pro gymnastics. Btw, vault wasn't used because
it's not considered "entertaining". Most exhibitions leave out vault.

I also second Gimnasta's comments about men's gymnastics taking the attitude
of being defiantly heterosexual. In fact, male gymnasts often seem to be
much more affectionate with their girlfriends in public than the norm,
possibly due to a paranoia. It's too bad that being gay is not easily
accepted.

Gimnasta:
> Do you suppose there's enough clout to place conditions on
> broadcasting women -- such as requiring showing
> a certain amount of men's?

I can't see the USGF even trying to make this kind of a deal... They're so
eager to get any air time that they do get that I don't think they'd do
anything to compromise it.

Re the general question of how to make men's more popular... it's a
tough one. I should point out that men's gymnastics *used* to be more
popular, when pro sports didn't dominate the newspapers and TV so
much. However, I think that part of it is not necessarily that women's
has had specific personalities (Olga, Nadia, and ML have done a lot,
don't get me wrong), but it's just more that women's gymnastics --
girl's gymnastics-- is regarded as a phenomenon. Listen to people
outside gymnastics talk... they think that the Olympic competitors are
11, 12 years old. They're always surprised when I tell them no, they
must be 15 by the end of the year. The point is that there's the youth
factor on the women's side... these prepubescent teens achieving more
than the average individual could ever dream of, and all with amazing
confidence, "grit", "nerves of steel" etc. Such maturity and poise is
not expected of little girls. Anyways, the men do not have this
"phenomenon" on their side. In fact, most people (that I surveyed last
year when doing a project on the marketing of men's gymnastics)
considered men's gymnastics to be an imitation of the girls', with the
men just trying to cash in on some of the fun.

Also, on a side-note, I'd like to thank Gimnasta for her recent comments on
Gymn ... they've been very informative!

I think there is a large difference between high bar and uneven bars,
and that Chusovitina fully deserves to have the hop-full named after
her, as does any other female who takes a high bar move to unevens, or
male gymnast who does vice versa. First of all, for unevens, the low
bar is in the way. Second of all there is the difference in diameter
and other properties of the bar. This makes a release move on unevens
an entirely different ballgame, in my understanding. A Tk. on UB looks
very different than on HB -- women usually catch with their feet still
above the bar, men catch with feet already past the bar. Seems like
there should be some degree of innovation recognized for adapting the
move.

> Someone called Miller a "wisp". Uh, what footage have you seen of her ?
> Wisp is the word NOT ! She may not be a linebacker but shes a heck of a
lot
> bigger than a wisp.

"Someone" is me, and uh, I've seen plenty of footage of her. Who
hasn't? I fully believe that if you ask anyone in the "real world"
what they think of Miller (if they know of her), they'll easily agree
that she is a wisp. I was approaching gymnastics from an outside view,
so I think that referring to her as a wisp is justifiable.

Anyone who thinks that upon seeing a picture of Miller, one would say "Man,
look at those muscles!" or "Gee, she looks STRONG!" or some similar
statement, now's the time to say so!

NCAA eligibility -- don't know when the clock starts ticking after you
get out of high school, but I do believe though that there is an age
requirement too -- for instance, Danny Akerman of Temple is in his
last year of eligibility despite being a sophomore, because he's 21 (I
believe someone on Gymn pointed this out?).

> With Rachelle spending so much time on AOL, and keeping in mind their
obscene
> cost schedules, I dont even wanna THINK about her bill this month!

I have paid nothing so far for AOL. I expect to pay their monthly fee
of $10 next month, and likewise for each following month -- no more.
Hard to beat that.

(Please note that my name is "Rachele", not "Rachelle". You've
mispelled it several times now, texxx.)

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 12:05:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Subject: Georgia Dome

One cannot see outdoors from inside the Georgia Dome. I believe the
dome cover is made of stretched canvas. I don't think it will affect
the gymnasts too much - the ceiling won't be totally dark but it won't
be completely bright either. If gymnasts can go to outdoor camps every
year and throw tricks in outdoor sunlight, I see no problem with the
Georgia Dome. It's like being in a tent of a Native American in the
Midwest.
As far as television coverage - do they think that this is the first
televised event during the day there has been in the Dome? I'm not
sure what the difference between gymnastics and another event would
be.
Usually there is a pre-Olympic meet held a year before the Olympics
in gymnastics. I went to the 1983 one in L.A. - they are run and
televised, complete with podiums, just like the Olympics. If there are
any major problems, they should know then.
Cara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 17:01:12 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Georgia Dome

I imagine they will use the Georgia Dome as they used the Hoosier
Dome, dividing it in parts. People have mentioned the roof is similar
to the one in the Hoosier Dome. I've competed in the Hoosier Dome, and
actually the bright lights were more worrisome (although they turned
out not to be a problem) and the roof was no problem at all.

-- Gimnasta

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 15:20:59 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Georgia Dome in '95

> Ooooooh, possibly some big meet in Atlanta next year??? Hmmmmmm???
> Was there something like this in Barcelona in 1991?

In 1991, the Joaquim Blume Memorial was used to test out the venue for
gymnastics in Barcelona.

I just talked to the USGF, and they said that right now they are planning a
meet in 1995 in the Georgia Dome. They don't know if it's going to be one of
their existing meets (Am. Cup, for instance) or if they are going to create a
special test meet.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 11:53:17 CST
From: ***@scoter.cdev.com
Subject: Georgia Dome in '95?

> Subject: Georgia Dome
.....
> Usually there is a pre-Olympic meet held a year before the Olympics in
> gymnastics. I went to the 1983 one in L.A. - they are run and televised,
> complete with podiums, just like the Olympics. If there are any major problems,
> they should know then.
> Cara

Ooooooh, possibly some big meet in Atlanta next year??? Hmmmmmm???
Was there something like this in Barcelona in 1991?
--John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 19:29:43 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Men's gymnastics & popularity

These comments refer to "texx's message on the problems
men's gymnastics faces.


Glad to find someone who shares my gripes. How does one go about
pounding a TV network? We're caught in a vicious cycle. As long as
(men's) gymnastics remains less than popular, it will find less
sponsors and air time. In getting less sponsors and air time, it will
not become more popular. I do think women's increasing popularity will
help some, though. Do you suppose there's enough clout to place
conditions on broadcasting women -- such as requiring showing a
certain amount of men's?

How does one go about popularizing men's gymnastics? Although more
successful athletes might help a little, that Mary Lou-type phenomenon
doesn't really seem to happen with men, as evidenced by the fact that
the '84 team and the success of its members in the years preceding
(much more than the women's) didn't accomplish what Mary Lou did.

Why is men's figure skating so much more popular? Maybe a tradition of
success does help (also for ex. Louganis) (incidentally, any Boitano
worshippers out there?). If ever there was a sport with a "wus" or
"fag" reputation, men's figure skating is it. In any case, is it
desirable to try to eradicate that image? I think it would be positive
to make people understand you don't have to be female or gay or a wus
to do gymnastics (i.e., to be artistic and graceful), but I resist the
defensive denial of gayness, a denial which in fact permeates the
sport of men's gymnastics -- I have found many male gymnasts to be as
anti-gay as anyone, and this is reflected in their performances --
because I think being gay should be acceptable.

Thoughts?

-- Gimnasta

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 21:53:20 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@sosi.com
Subject: Men's gymnastics & popularity

> to eradicate that image? I think it would be positive to make people
> understand you don't have to be female or gay or a wus to do gymnastics
> (i.e., to be artistic and graceful), but I resist the defensive denial of

Not until recently on GYMN have I ever heard anyone call a male
gymnast a "wuss" or "wimp." (This subject also came up a few months
ago) Maybe it's just me, but when I look at a Rustam Sharipov or an
Andreas Wecker, "wuss" just doesn't come to mind.

> gayness, a denial which in fact permeates the sport of men's gymnastics -- I
> have found many male gymnasts to be as anti-gay as anyone, and this is
> reflected in their performances -- because I think being gay should be

How can you tell if a gymnast (or any athlete for that matter) is gay
based on their performance? Just can't imagine someone saying, "Man,
did you see that guy do that inverted iron-cross? What a fag!"

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 15:21:19 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Miller and Strug update

I talked with USA Gymnastics today to get the update on these two. Here's
what they had to say:

Miller - no hiatus being planned, is in great shape, having a bit of
problem with her lower back

Strug - The problem is a pulled muscle in her stomach. (Nothing to do
with aspirin, nothing to do with her leg, which I think a couple
people asked me ... can't remember if it came across Gymn or not.) She
is in Tucson indefinitely, training at some local gym. Media Relations
at USA Gymnastics said that the key thing to know about her is that
the National Team Coaches are keeping an eye on her and will be going
with her to competitions and so forth. (ie she's not falling by the
wayside or anything.)

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 15:53:26 PST
From: ***@us.oracle.com
Subject: more scattered thoughts


Clive watched the superbowl?
Why would he do a silly thing like that ?
(Texx hates American Footbal)

What has happened to UIUC gymnastics ?
It used to be a dynamite program and quite hard to make the team.

I note that Jair Lynch is not mentioned anywhere. Did he graduate STanford
last year ? I thought he had one more year.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 01:28:42 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: NCAA Women's Individual Rankings

N A T I O N A L Ranking For - Vaulting - By Total Season Average
1 February 1994

1 Leah Brown 9.983 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
2 jenny hansen 9.933 KENTUCKY, U. OF SE
3 Hope Spivey-She 9.908 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
4 kareema marrow 9.875 CALIF- L.A. W
5 TINA BRINKMAN 9.867 ARIZONA STATE MW
6 M. Willard 9.842 ALABAMA, U. OF C
7 karen nelson 9.833 CALIF- L.A. W
-- WENDY MARSHALL 9.833 MICHIGAN, U. OF C
9 Agina Simpkins 9.825 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
10 Leslie Angeles 9.812 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
11 Candice Kwok 9.800 CALIF- BERKELEY W
12 KATIE FREELAND 9.792 ARIZONA STATE MW
-- Kim Kelly 9.792 ALABAMA, U. OF C
14 M. KING 9.783 UTAH, U. OF MW
15 N. Walker 9.775 BRIGHAM YOUNG U MW
-- A. Polito 9.775 PENN STATE NE
17 B. Erwin 9.762 AUBURN UNIV. C
18 BETH WYMER 9.742 MICHIGAN, U. OF C
-- H. Schneider 9.742 CALIF- BERKELEY W
20 Chasity Junkin 9.733 ALABAMA, U. OF C
-- sunshine smyth 9.733 CALIF- L.A. W

N A T I O N A L Ranking For - Uneven Bars - By Total Season Average
1 February 1994

1 BETH WYMER 9.867 MICHIGAN, U. OF C
2 C. Williams 9.812 WASHINGTON, U. W
3 Kara Stilp 9.800 ALABAMA, U. OF C
-- Cindy Tom 9.800 CALIF- BERKELEY W
5 Kim Bonaventura 9.792 ALABAMA, U. OF C
6 Andrea Dewey 9.783 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
7 TINA BRINKMAN 9.767 ARIZONA STATE MW
8 Leslie Angeles 9.767 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
9 S. METZ 9.750 UTAH, U. OF MW
10 Kristen Guise 9.725 FLORIDA, U. OF SE
11 Nneka Logan 9.717 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
12 Jennifer Landry 9.700 LOUISIANA STATE C
13 Karen Olsson 9.692 NEW HAMPSHIRE NE
-- Chasity Junkin 9.692 ALABAMA, U. OF C
15 J. Bangerter 9.675 BRIGHAM YOUNG U MW
-- Kelly Macy 9.675 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
-- megan fenton 9.675 CALIF- L.A. W
18 Amy Myerson 9.667 FLORIDA, U. OF SE
19 Jennifer Wood 9.662 LOUISIANA STATE C
20 Elzie, Jene 9.658 STANFORD UNIV. W

N A T I O N A L Ranking For - Balance Beam - By Total Season Average
1 February 1994

1 BETH WYMER 9.842 MICHIGAN, U. OF C
2 CHARI KNIGHT 9.792 OREGON STATE W
3 Aida Canovas 9.783 LOUISIANA STATE C
4 S. METZ 9.762 UTAH, U. OF MW
5 Lajuanda Moody 9.750 WEST VIRGINIA U SE
6 M. WELLS-TAYLOR 9.712 UTAH, U. OF MW
7 Stephanie Woods 9.708 ALABAMA, U. OF C
8 Stacy Connolly 9.688 WASHINGTON, U. W
9 J. Collins 9.675 AUBURN UNIV. C
10 A. TREPANIER 9.669 UTAH, U. OF MW
11 KRISTI CAMP 9.667 NEBRASKA, U. OF MW
12 HillaryAnderson 9.658 STANFORD UNIV. W
-- WENDY MARSHALL 9.658 MICHIGAN, U. OF C
-- Jennings, Katie 9.658 STANFORD UNIV. W
15 MICHELLE SANDOZ 9.658 OREGON STATE W
16 Cristi Clifford 9.650 CAL-STATE FULL. W
17 jenny hansen 9.633 KENTUCKY, U. OF SE
18 Lori Strong 9.633 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
19 Nicole Mullins 9.625 NEW HAMPSHIRE NE
20 Kelly Macy 9.617 GEORGIA, U. OF SE

N A T I O N A L Ranking For - Floor Ex. - By Total Season Average
1 February 1994

1 Hope Spivey-She 9.925 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
2 jenny hansen 9.850 KENTUCKY, U. OF SE
3 TINA BRINKMAN 9.808 ARIZONA STATE MW
4 BETH WYMER 9.800 MICHIGAN, U. OF C
-- S. METZ 9.800 UTAH, U. OF MW
-- Lisa Kurc 9.800 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
7 karen nelson 9.758 CALIF- L.A. W
8 Karen Tierney 9.758 ARIZONA, U. OF MW
-- leah homma 9.758 CALIF- L.A. W
10 A. TREPANIER 9.737 UTAH, U. OF MW
11 Sheryl Dundas 9.725 ALABAMA, U. OF C
12 kareema marrow 9.717 CALIF- L.A. W
13 Kristen Guise 9.712 FLORIDA, U. OF SE
14 Jana Reardon 9.700 NEW HAMPSHIRE NE
15 Larissa Lowing 9.687 LOUISIANA STATE C
16 Leslie Angeles 9.683 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
17 N. Walker 9.675 BRIGHAM YOUNG U MW
-- Anna Dwyer 9.675 WILLIAM & MARY SE
19 M. CAUDLE 9.669 UTAH, U. OF MW
20 Lajuanda Moody 9.667 WEST VIRGINIA U SE

N A T I O N A L Ranking For - All Around - By Total Season Average
1 February 1994

1 BETH WYMER 39.175 MICHIGAN, U. OF C
2 S. METZ 39.044 UTAH, U. OF MW
3 TINA BRINKMAN 39.025 ARIZONA STATE MW
4 Leslie Angeles 38.875 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
5 jenny hansen 38.662 KENTUCKY, U. OF SE
6 Jana Reardon 38.575 NEW HAMPSHIRE NE
7 M. Willard 38.550 ALABAMA, U. OF C
8 A. TREPANIER 38.494 UTAH, U. OF MW
9 M. WELLS-TAYLOR 38.433 UTAH, U. OF MW
10 Celeste Delia 38.375 CAL-STATE FULL. W
11 Jennifer Jones 38.325 LOUISIANA STATE C
12 Leah Brown 38.250 GEORGIA, U. OF SE
13 Kim Kelly 38.233 ALABAMA, U. OF C
14 Aida Canovas 38.225 LOUISIANA STATE C
15 Jennifer Landry 38.208 LOUISIANA STATE C
16 Mindy Ornellas 38.167 CALIF- BERKELEY W
17 Karen Olsson 38.125 NEW HAMPSHIRE NE
18 Jennings, Katie 38.100 STANFORD UNIV. W
19 kareema marrow 38.083 CALIF- L.A. W
20 leah homma 38.058 CALIF- L.A. W
-- Chasity Junkin 38.058 ALABAMA, U. OF C

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 01:29:23 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: NCAA Women's Team Rankings

N A T I O N A L Ranking For - TEAM Vaulting - By Total Season Average
1 February 1994

Aver. Region High

1 GEORGIA, U. OF 1 SE 49.025 0.000 49.525
2 ALABAMA, U. OF 1 C 48.650 0.000 49.000
3 CALIF- L.A. 1 W 48.458 0.000 48.625
4 UTAH, U. OF 1 MW 48.450 0.000 48.700
5 AUBURN UNIV. 1 C 48.300 0.000 48.375
6 ARIZONA STATE 1 MW 48.258 0.000 48.425
7 OREGON STATE 1 W 48.200 0.000 48.450
8 MICHIGAN, U. OF 1 C 48.183 0.000 49.075
9 LOUISIANA STATE 1 C 47.958 0.000 48.050
10 NEBRASKA, U. OF 1 MW 47.850 0.000 48.175
11 ARIZONA, U. OF 1 MW 47.750 0.000 48.250
12 KENTUCKY, U. OF 1 SE 47.608 0.000 48.250
13 PENN STATE 1 NE 47.600 0.000 47.750
14 FLORIDA, U. OF 1 SE 47.475 0.000 47.975
15 WEST VIRGINIA U 1 SE 47.458 0.000 48.500
16 WASHINGTON, U. 1 W 47.330 0.000 47.435
17 S.E. MISSOURI 1 C 47.325 0.000 47.775
18 CALIF- BERKELEY 1 W 47.317 0.000 48.425
19 NEW HAMPSHIRE 1 NE 47.242 0.000 47.575
20 UTAH STATE 1 MW 47.212 0.000 47.700

N A T I O N A L Ranking For - TEAM Uneven Bars - By Total Season Average
1 February 1994

Aver. Region High

1 GEORGIA, U. OF 1 SE 48.733 0.000 49.050
2 ALABAMA, U. OF 1 C 48.608 0.000 49.100
3 UTAH, U. OF 1 MW 48.319 0.000 48.725
4 LOUISIANA STATE 1 C 47.800 0.000 48.650
5 OREGON STATE 1 W 47.600 0.000 48.850
6 PENN STATE 1 NE 47.587 0.000 48.050
7 MICHIGAN, U. OF 1 C 47.500 0.000 47.875
8 FLORIDA, U. OF 1 SE 47.462 0.000 48.525
9 ARIZONA STATE 1 MW 47.350 0.000 48.825
10 NEBRASKA, U. OF 1 MW 47.317 0.000 48.475
11 CALIF- L.A. 1 W 47.150 0.000 47.800
12 WASHINGTON, U. 1 W 47.062 0.000 47.275
-- AUBURN UNIV. 1 C 47.062 0.000 47.300
14 ARIZONA, U. OF 1 MW 46.783 0.000 47.400
15 CAL-STATE FULL. 1 W 46.562 0.000 47.900
16 BRIGHAM YOUNG U 1 MW 46.525 0.000 46.525
17 NEW HAMPSHIRE 1 NE 46.467 0.000 47.800
18 CALIF- BERKELEY 1 W 46.433 0.000 47.800
19 STANFORD UNIV. 1 W 46.425 0.000 47.025
20 BOISE STATE 1 W 46.362 0.000 46.675

N A T I O N A L Ranking For - TEAM Balance Beam - By Total Season Average
1 February 1994

Aver. Region High

1 UTAH, U. OF 1 MW 48.162 0.000 48.475
2 GEORGIA, U. OF 1 SE 47.867 0.000 49.000
3 ALABAMA, U. OF 1 C 47.800 0.000 48.625
4 AUBURN UNIV. 1 C 47.450 0.000 47.675
5 ARIZONA STATE 1 MW 47.433 0.000 47.800
6 STANFORD UNIV. 1 W 47.367 0.000 47.925
-- OREGON STATE 1 W 47.367 0.000 48.825
8 LOUISIANA STATE 1 C 47.358 0.000 47.850
9 FLORIDA, U. OF 1 SE 46.919 0.000 48.275
10 WEST VIRGINIA U 1 SE 46.817 0.000 47.375
11 PENN STATE 1 NE 46.812 0.000 47.425
12 UTAH STATE 1 MW 46.806 0.000 48.000
13 CALIF- L.A. 1 W 46.742 0.000 48.625
14 TOWSON STATE 1 SE 46.667 0.000 46.875
15 MICHIGAN, U. OF 1 C 46.633 0.000 47.700
16 CAL-STATE FULL. 1 W 46.625 0.000 47.100
17 NEBRASKA, U. OF 1 MW 46.625 0.000 47.375
18 WILLIAM & MARY 1 SE 46.575 0.000 46.575
19 OHIO STATE 1 NE 46.575 0.000 47.075
20 CALIF- BERKELEY 1 W 46.558 0.000 46.975

N A T I O N A L Ranking For - TEAM Floor Ex. - By Total Season Average
1 February 1994

Aver. Region High

1 UTAH, U. OF 1 MW 48.269 0.000 48.925
2 GEORGIA, U. OF 1 SE 48.208 0.000 48.625
3 LOUISIANA STATE 1 C 47.808 0.000 48.350
4 ALABAMA, U. OF 1 C 47.700 0.000 48.325
5 FLORIDA, U. OF 1 SE 47.650 0.000 48.600
6 STANFORD UNIV. 1 W 47.617 0.000 47.925
7 CALIF- L.A. 1 W 47.583 0.000 48.275
8 ARIZONA STATE 1 MW 47.500 0.000 48.225
9 BRIGHAM YOUNG U 1 MW 47.475 0.000 47.475
10 ARIZONA, U. OF 1 MW 47.233 0.000 47.750
11 NEW HAMPSHIRE 1 NE 47.208 0.000 47.700
12 OREGON STATE 1 W 47.133 0.000 47.950
13 WILLIAM & MARY 1 SE 47.100 0.000 47.100
14 PENN STATE 1 NE 47.075 0.000 47.450
15 MICHIGAN, U. OF 1 C 47.075 0.000 48.250
16 CAL-STATE FULL. 1 W 46.912 0.000 47.325
17 WEST VIRGINIA U 1 SE 46.892 0.000 47.500
18 UTAH STATE 1 MW 46.794 0.000 47.750
19 MISSOURI, U. OF 1 C 46.737 0.000 47.525
20 CALIF- BERKELEY 1 W 46.683 0.000 47.550

N A T I O N A L Ranking For - TEAM TOTALS - By Total Season Average
1 February 1994

Aver. Region High

1 GEORGIA, U. OF 1 SE 193.833 0.000 195.350
2 UTAH, U. OF 1 MW 193.200 0.000 194.400
3 ALABAMA, U. OF 1 C 192.758 0.000 194.000
4 LOUISIANA STATE 1 C 190.925 0.000 191.975
5 ARIZONA STATE 1 MW 190.542 0.000 192.600
6 OREGON STATE 1 W 190.300 0.000 192.625
7 CALIF- L.A. 1 W 189.933 0.000 192.200
8 FLORIDA, U. OF 1 SE 189.506 0.000 193.325
9 MICHIGAN, U. OF 1 C 189.392 0.000 191.175
10 AUBURN UNIV. 1 C 189.237 0.000 189.900
11 PENN STATE 1 NE 189.075 0.000 190.375
12 NEBRASKA, U. OF 1 MW 188.425 0.000 191.550
13 STANFORD UNIV. 1 W 188.408 0.000 189.625
14 ARIZONA, U. OF 1 MW 188.258 0.000 190.950
15 NEW HAMPSHIRE 1 NE 187.350 0.000 189.675
16 WEST VIRGINIA U 1 SE 187.300 0.000 188.375
17 CAL-STATE FULL. 1 W 187.150 0.000 188.600
18 CALIF- BERKELEY 1 W 186.992 0.000 188.250
19 UTAH STATE 1 MW 186.950 0.000 189.050
20 WASHINGTON, U. 1 W 186.210 0.000 187.100

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 18:27:51 -0500
From: ***@ecn.purdue.edu
Subject: Reese's Cup

Did anyone else think that the floor music was hard to hear during ABC's
telecast? It's hard to tell if the gymnasts were hitting their dance
moves in time to the music or not.

Also, instead of showing us Gutsu's make-over or Onodi's shopping
spree (although that is all we saw of her), why couldn't they have
showed a few more routines? If only they would televise gymnastics as
much as skating. There are *4* different skating programs on TV on
Saturday!

Lori

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 10:09:22 EST
From: <***@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Reese's Cup Comments

Helena writes:
>Ken was particulary unhappy with the use of costumes - he
>felt it took away from the gymnastics itself. Give it time - this stuff is
>still pretty new and needs to find its way (that is, if it's meant to be in
>the first place).

Yeah, Charles had the same reaction. I have to agree -- it makes it
look more like a performance and less of a serious sport. Maybe "they"
don't care whether or not people consider "professional" gymn to be a
serious sport, but if they do, they should really can the corny
costumes and the stupid scoring (did anyone _not_ get 30 30 30 on the
first 3 scores?). I think allowing music and dance before the mount
and dismount is OK though.

btw, does anyone know why they decided to nuke vault? Just too athletic
and no real room for artistic impression?

--Robyn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 21:08:40 PST
From: "***@us.oracle.com" Subject: Reese's televised et al

Wow! I am STILL going through my mailbox. Impressive traffic flow over the
weekend.

[Texx check the hose connections for the napalm on his flamethrower]

Gimnista kind of stikes me as a kindred spirit. SHe shares many of my
gripes. [Texx fumbles with the newfangled pizio electric ignitor]

IGNITION!

We didnt get Reeses Cup out here. We got something like bowling or
golf.

Cathy has been out of gymnastics quite a long time. Does she EVER
spend time in the sport outside the broadcasters booth? Methinks the
dear lady is losing it.... Even Bart is flubbing on the guys
gymnastics sometimes, but not as bad as Cathy (Remind me to spill
another drink down his front next time I see him!)

Why is gymnastics bungled or ignored as bad as it is by the press?

Because we LET them ! In a way, its our own stupid fault! Someone
goofs on a football game of a basketball game, and the network gets
POUNDED! We let them slide. This should stop. Make them accountable
for our sport. Tell the football sponsors "You ignore my sport, Ill
ignore your product!"

Mary Lou brought womens gymn into the spotlight, so womens gymn is
going to make it. Mens gymn is dying. Schools right and left are
killing their programs, the press ignores the sport. Guys start with a
double whammy against them. We are often hassled for being in a "wuss"
sport. Snide remarks are made at the expense of our sexual orientation
& masculinity, or worse yet, its denied altogether!

I guess what Im trying to say is that it wont get better until we
fight and fight hard.

Someone was trying to describe undergrip and over grip. Its easy.
Imagine a bar, horizontal in front of your face. Grab the bar. If you
see the back of your hand, it is an overgrip. If your palm is facing
your face is it undergrip. (I DID get that right. didnt I? {us
dyslexics get backwards sometimes} )

The subject of dirty tricks amongst players came up. Theres nasty
things you can do. Corosive or drugged powders added to competitors
grips. Slipping a controlled substance in their drink so that they
flunk the drug test. An unscrupulous gymnast could wreak havoc quite
easily and if careful might not get caught. Hardningate could have
been pulled off with impunity if they had used more finesse and less
"brute force-massive stupidity". Thank heavens for dummies or they
might have gotten away with it.

Bottom line: No matter how much security you have, a scoundrel can
still cheat.

Sheesh!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 09:09:24 GMT
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: Reese's televised et al

>Someone goofs on a football game of a basketball game, and
>the network gets POUNDED! We let them slide. This should
>stop. Make them accountable for our sport. Tell the
>football sponsors "You ignore my sport, Ill ignore your
>product!"

Who does sponsor the football ?

>Theres nasty things you can do. Corosive or drugged powders
>added to competitors grips. Slipping a controlled substance
>in their drink so that they flunk the drug test.

Smart idea but dont the drug investigators go around spot checking
people. And a sudden apperance of a drug would look pretty suspect.

Clive.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 23:28:40 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Sara Rabold

Hey Gymn,

If you subscribe to _USA Gymnastics_, check out p. 34 of the most recent
issue. Toby's daughter Sara is listed (Region 7) as a "TOPS star".

Congrats to Sara!

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 13:47:58 PST
From: "***@us.oracle.com" Subject: scattered subjects


Someone mentioned Olga Korbit. What ever happened to her? Last I knew
was before the USSR broke up she was coaching. SHe looked so serious
in her routines. I will never forget a picture of her doing splits on
beam with her chin resting on her calf, glowering at the camera
(camera shoot was length of the beam)

Names of moves: I think that we should give the name to the athlete
who invented it. When a woman does a "Gaylord" on unevens, it should
still be a "Gaylord", even if the gender of the athlete performing it
changes. But the new gendered athlete should be remembered for having
brought the move to the other gender. If Mary Lou invented something
on u-bar and then Scotty Keswick figured out how to do it on hi-bar,
then it should not be a Keswick, it should be a Retton. Same if Miller
decided to do a Gaylord on u-bar. It should still be a Gaylord even
though Miller took it to u-bar. But we should stuill give Miller "Way
ta go!" for her figuring out how to take it to the other side. Same
with Scotty. He would get credit for making Mary Lou's move work on
the guys side, but the move should keep her name if she invented it.

Yammering commentators: I worked a basketball game recently, where we
did something really wierd. We miked the floor. Our commentators saved
their mindless jabbering for the pregame, midgame and post game
segments. Commentary during the actual game was restricted to verbal
description of the action, for the benefit of sight impaired. I
understand in Europe, there are televised games with NO announcer.

What do we do about this ? We beat up the broadcast companies about
this. We demand accuracy, and an end to mindless drivel. We demand
knowledgeable folk to do the job and more air time for our sport. I
mean, I have seen enough washed up obese football players to last a
lifetime. When they moan about ratings, we remind them that we can
alway attack their sponsors. Attacking the sponsors of a show usually
brings results. Sponsors are the major vulnerability of a show. Oops,
Im not being clear here... Attack the sponsors of all sporting
programs and demand more gymnastics time and at the same time demand
that they dont clutter the coverage with sportscasters yammering just
to hear their own voice.

Trust me folks, besides being a computer geek, I am quite active in
broadcasting as well. I KNOW the dirty tricks required to fix these
shortsights.

Someone called Miller a "wisp". Uh, what footage have you seen of her
? Wisp is the word NOT ! She may not be a linebacker but shes a heck
of a lot bigger than a wisp.

Dawes going to Stanford ? (Poor Dave & George... Big blue lost out
again) Actually doesnt she loos a year of NCAA eligibility by waiting
a year ? Anyone want to post data on NCAA eligibility rules and
sabaticals/timeouts from sports ? I recal a story of a guy who spent 3
years in Jr College not doing any sports, and then he transferred to a
regular college only to find out that he had already lost most of his
NCAA time because the clock started running as soon as he was out of
High School. Can someone clarifiy this ?

With Rachelle spending so much time on AOL, and keeping in mind their
obscene cost schedules, I dont even wanna THINK about her bill this
month!

I better quit here or some mailboxes will choke!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 19:45:54 -0500
From: ***@cykick.jvnc.net
Subject: scattered subjects

>Someone mentioned Olga Korbit. What ever happened to her? Last I knew was
>before the USSR broke up she was coaching. SHe looked so serious in her
>routines. I will never forget a picture of her doing splits on beam with her
>chin resting on her calf, glowering at the camera (camera shoot was length of
>the beam)

Funny you should ask... One of the programs NBC showed before the
Super Bowl was a feature (it came off more like an infomercial) about
Atlanta and the upcoming 1996 Olympic Games. Among the athletes
profiled was Olga Korbut, who is now teaching gymnastics to kids in
the Atlanta area.

>Dawes going to Stanford ? (Poor Dave & George... Big blue lost out again)
>Actually doesnt she loos a year of NCAA eligibility by waiting a year ?
>Anyone want to post data on NCAA eligibility rules and sabaticals/timeouts from
>sports ? I recal a story of a guy who spent 3 years in Jr College not doing
>any sports, and then he transferred to a regular college only to find out that
>he had already lost most of his NCAA time because the clock started running as
>soon as he was out of High School. Can someone clarifiy this ?

Let's see if I can guess right on this one. Has she actually enrolled
in the university? I don't think her eligibility would begin until she
began attending classes (assuming she meets the academic requirements
- GPA/SAT or ACT minimums. If she didn't, she'd be considered a
Proposition 48 case and would lose a year that way. Or does Prop 48
only apply to football/basketball?). The only other way the clock can
run out is due to age or number of semesters of attendance (which
might be the problem with juco transfer). Perhaps someone closer to an
NCAA rulebook can clarify...

Helena

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 09:35:07 GMT
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: scattered subjects

>Clive watched the superbowl?
>Why would he do a silly thing like that ?
>(Texx hates American Footbal)

It was the only thing on at 11pm at night with only 4 channels TV gets
a bit boring at night, and everybody watches the Superbowl in the UK
just so they can say the next morning at work "Did you watch the game
last night" to which everybody says "yes I did but I fell asleep
because it was so boring".

>Names of moves:

I was thinking the other day what happens if a Gymnast comes up with
two new moves how do they name it then would it be Miller1 and Miller2
or what..

>Yammering commentators

>I understand in Europe, there are televised games
>with NO announcer.

Who told you that, is wasn`t media personality Gerry Adams was it.

I have never yet seen a televised game of anything without an
announcer in the UK or for that matter any sporting event from Europe.

The announcers or commentators are usually big fans of the sport they
cover so thay have an interest in it and they don`t endlessly rabbit
on about nothing, they actually try and make the sport interesting to
the viewer.

And they don`t have to worry about plugging the sponsors.

Clive.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 03:23:16 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Trivia Set #10, questions

Note to those new to Gymn: we have trivia "contests" every week. Feel free
to answer trivia on-line or privately. The answers will be posted on Friday,
at which point I will announce the topic for next week.

###################################################################
# #
# ________ G y m n ________ \ | ___ #
# o __o |o |o (o #
# An electronic forum !__ \! ! ! \. #
# for gymnastics. ====== ====== ====== ====== ====== #
# #
###################################################################

o o o o o o o Gymn Trivia Set #10 o o o o o o o o o

TOPIC: NCAA Men's Gymnastics
note: I can't remember if we're on #10 or #9...

--Q1. Who is the winningest coach in NCAA Men's history?

--Q2. Who were the top three teams at the last Championships? What
about 1992?

--Q3. In one instance, three generations (in terms of coach-athlete)
of gymnasts have won the Nissen award. Who are the three?

--Q4. Which years did John Roethlisberger win his three NCAA
All-Around championships?

--Q5. The competing members of the 1992 men's Olympic team all
competed collegiately at one point. Name their affiliations (by their
last university attended).

--Q6. What is the smallest margin that a team has won Nationals by?

--Q7. Who was the highest individual finisher at Nationals last year?
(By this I mean, the highest finisher who did not come with a team to
back him up.)

--Q8. Which teams and individuals have the highest GPA?

--Q9. Three-time NCAA Champ John Roethlisberger comes from a family of
Olympians. Who are the other Olympic Roethlisbergers?

--Q10. Several recent big international names have gone into NCAA
men's coaching. Name two.

------------------------------

End of gymn Digest
******************************