gymn Digest                 Mon, 31 Jan 94       Volume 2 : Issue  66

 

Today's Topics:

                            Element names

                             introduction

                             It's a Girl!

                           Names of tricks

                        Naming moves (2 msgs)

                        Naming moves some more

                            NCAA schedules

                               Reese's

                        Reese's Meet (2 msgs)

                      Reese's televised (2 msgs)

            Reese's World Cup - Format and stuff (2 msgs)

                 Reese's World cup TELEVISED (2 msgs)

                           Results & Stuff

                                Scores

                           See what I mean?

                             Skating moms

                          Spanish and Knees

Spanish and Knees and owls and bigmouthed govt studies and fitness and alarms, oh my !

                    truth vs. tv ratings (4 msgs)

                        We all feel this way!

 

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list. 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:05:39 -0400 (EDT)

From: ***@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu

Subject: Element names

 

 I believe the Soviet gymnast that did the back handspring 1/4 to

handstand everyone is refering to is Oksana Omelianchik - I've heard

the move called that before.

 Does anyone know whether or not she is the true originator of the

back-to-back tumbling pass (at least for women?)

 Why not give Chusovitina credit for the hop full, even if it was a

men's move - she was the first to throw it on the uneven bars, which

is a lot different than high bar. Incidentally, does anyone remember

that Kurt Thomas and Tracee Talavera did flares, and for awhile a

flare on beam was called a "Talavera"? Or am I just old...?

       Cara

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 9:21:00 EST

From: <***@flemingc.on.ca>

Subject: introduction

 

    I have been on this list for a few weeks so it's about time that I

crept out of the shadows!

    I am an international trade student from Ontario (I'm the lone

dissenting voice *for* NAFTA!), 30 years old, a Canadian but raised in a

miserable little island dump called Britain, returning here two years ago.

    My interest in gymnastics goes a long way back but is almost

exclusively as a spectator, my favourite gymnast was Oksana

Omilianchik (where is she now? Does anyone know? I'd love o hear some

'where are they now' type stories).

    My only active role in the sport was way back in the late 70's and

early 80's when I was a (field) hockey player and weights coach

(uncertified, flying by the seat of my pant) and I worked with several

gymnasts (but mostly with track athletes) in developing specific

weight and exercise programs for competitors, especially for those

coming back from injuries (which was my personal speciality, three

knee surgeries later...). I liked working with the gymnasts as I found

them to be much more familiar with their bodies and the specific uses

of each muscle group. We had a new sports centre that had been built

for the Commonwealth Games so the gymn equipment was 'state of the

art' for the time and coaching athletes how best to use the equipment

was very interesting work.

    Naturally I am in awe of some of these male gymnasts and their

phenomenal *controlled* strength.

    I am hoping to be down in Orlando for my first live gymnastics

competition in a few years. Maybe I'll see a few of you there?

   And what *did* happen to Oksana, Aurelia...

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 0:03:37 PST

From: <***@cisco.com>

Subject: It's a Girl!

 

Bill and Mary Ann are proud to announce the birth of their

daughter "Alyssa Katherine",  Born Sunday morning, Jan 30,

at Sequoia Hospital in Redwood City.

 

Vital statistics: 8lb 5oz, 20.5 inches, born at 0938 after a mercifully

short (less than 5 hour) labor.  Mom, dad, and Daughter are all doing

fine, except for assorted silly grins that won't go away.

 

BillW

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 13:19:47 EST

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Names of tricks

 

A few days ago somebody (I forget who) mentioned she'd just learned

that the hop-full over the bar that Shannon does was actually first

done by Chusovitina and named for her. That is one pet peeve I have

with meet commentary. They often either don't know these things or

ignore them and misinform the public. Not one of the times that

Shannon has done that on TV (that I've seen) have they mentioned who

originated it. They just say she's one of the only ones to do it or

somehow give the impression she's the only one.

 

Another example (these are just the ones I can think of -- I'm not

picking on Shannon): Last year, Kathy Johnson must have said a million

times that Shannon's flip-flop with a 1/4 turn to handstand immediate

1/2 pirouette (on beam) was named after her, the "Miller." As it

happens, although it is hers, she hasn't met the procedures to get

that move in the Code with her name. At Birmingham, Shannon submitted

a description that called for a flip-flop 1/4 to handstand to HOP 1/2

pirouette. Milosovici submitted a description for a flip-flop 1/4 to

handstand to just a regular 1/2 pirouette. In the meet, Milosovici

didn't do the move at all, and the one Shannon did (and does) was not

a hop 1/2 but just a regular 1/2 pirouette. Since she didn't do the

move she submitted, it wasn't put in the Code with her name, and since

she didn't submit the one she did, she didn't get her name on that

either. In the end, neither move was put in the Code. I guess that

will probably change in Australia.

 

For the sake of accuracy and giving credit where it's due,

Gimnasta

: )

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 23:58:52 EST

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Naming Moves

 

Hello All:

   I had to smile after reading about how television keeps screwing up

who invented moves or giving statistics that just aren't true.

    For example, they say the hop-full on bars is being thrown only by

Miller and Chusotiniva (sp?). That's not true. It's also being thrown

by the University of Georgia's Agina Simpkins, who throws them higher.

    And the back-handspring with a 1/4 turn on beam that is the basis

for the so-called "Miller" was not invented by her but was named after

a Soviet gymnast. Interestingly, the Soviet gymnast was not the first

to invent it, though. The back-handspring with a 1/4-turn was invented

by Canadian national team member Tracy Wilson. Tracy told me that she

threw it in practice at an international meet but never threw it in

that meet's competition. The Soviet saw the move and remembered it.

When World Championships rolled around the following year, Tracy got

hurt and couldn't perform on beam. The Soviet did and introduced the

move.

   Tracy later went on to compete at the University of Florida. She's

now a nurse. To this day, I still call that move "The Wilson."

---Ronald Dupont, Jr. in Gainesville, Florida

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 03:24:52 EST

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Naming moves

 

I'm going to be a little picky here and call Ron on a couple small things:

 

>    For example, they say the hop-full on bars is being thrown only by

Miller

> and Chusotiniva (sp?). That's not true. It's also being thrown by the

> University of Georgia's Agina Simpkins, who throws them higher.

 

Well, the whole argument was that they *weren't* giving credit to

Chusovitina when they should be. Also, Simpkins is not the only other

person throwing it -- there's several gymnasts in the world who do it.

Can't remember any off the top of my head except for, I believe, Kim

Bonaventura (Alabama)? Not sure about that.

 

>    And the back-handspring with a 1/4 turn on beam that is the basis for

the

> so-called "Miller" was not invented by her but was named after a Soviet

                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't think it's ever been implied that the back hand with 1/4 turn

was invented by Miller. When Kathy Johnson refers to the Miller, it's

the back hand with 3/4 turn. So it's not like Miller's taking credit

away from Tracy Wilson... (although that other Soviet would be...)

 

Rachele

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 09:40:08 EST

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Naming moves some more

 

Warning: this is long

 

In the past, apparently, the rules were not clear or not applied or

something, and it's hard now to go back and figure out who did what,

so the WTC (Women's Technical Committee) has just let things lie with,

for example, Giengers and Tkatchevs.

 

For at least the last few years, however, the rules are clear and

applied consistently, though I'm not sure I like them. It's not about

who invents a move, but who does it first at Worlds, World Cup (the

real one, not the candy one) or the Olympics. You couldn't get it in

the Code, say, at Chunichi Cup. To get a move in the Code, you have to

submit a sheet with the description to the WTC, and they give it a

value (if you just perform it w/o submitting, you get no credit, since

it has no assigned value). If then you perform it *successfully* (you

can't fall), then it goes in the Code with your name next to it.

 

Hence, the situation with Wilson, for example. The flip-flop 1/4,

according to the Code, was done by Omelianchik (though I could swear

she did 3/4 turn, not 1/4). The so-called "Miller" was done by her

first, because that move adds a 1/2 pirouette after the ff 1/4. I

already explained why it's not called the Miller in my other message.

The triple turn on beam was done at Olympic Fest in maybe '87? by

maybe Juliet Bangerter? before Betty Okino did it. This sort of thing

happens constantly.

 

As for giving moves the name of the first woman to do it, that has

come from a feminism on the part of the WTC I think I've decided I

don't have a problem with. In some cases, usually on bars, it takes

more than just imitation to translate a men's move into a women's

move. There is also a challenging of the definition of what an uneven

bars routine is and of the ideas of what a woman can do. I think

Chusovitina's and others' doing eagle giants is incredibly cool even

though men have done them for, well, longer than I've been alive. It's

maybe less the case with tumbling (did you know a women's full-in is a

Mukhina?), but I really don't want the WTC deciding what took

inventiveness to bring in from men's and what didn't. And I think

eagle giants and hop-fulls, even though already done by men, take more

imagination to do than a triple turn on beam, which gets a name.

Should just bringing something from floor to beam warrant a

christening? For a triple turn or a switch-straddle leap, one might

think not; but what about a full twisting ff? And again, I'd rather

keep handing out names than let the WTC make that judgment (they make

too many as it is).

 

Lengthily,

Gimnasta : )

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 17:00:36 EST

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: NCAA schedules

 

My team schedules have started coming in now... I'm getting 5-8 a day.

There are too many to list -- if you are looking for any schedules in

particular, let me know and I'll send it to you when I receive it.

 

Btw, my vote for best covers of media guides: for men, Univ. of Iowa.

They have this cool clear reflective print over black background

that's very effective. For women, it's Univ. of Alabama, hands down.

They have a picture of five chalky hands all wearing bar grips... the

hands are arranged as in the middle of the huddle, and the top hand

has a 1991 NCAA Championship ring on. (Now if only the leotards didn't

have sequins...)

 

I will be posting to Gymn the NCAA rankings for both men and women

this week, probably on Wednesday.

 

Rachele

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 11:09:27 -0400 (EDT)

From: ***@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu

Subject: Reese's

 

 I think I reached a lifelong dream of mine - I saw myself (and Dennis

as well) on Wide World of Sports! Wow! We had 5th row tickets, but

these people left in the second row aisle before floor, so we were

second row aisle, facing the camera during floor. How cool!

 Rachele -your description of slip grip vs. undergrip was very well

done. I don't think I could've done better myself. I was clear on the

distinction, but missed what grip it was (and the rotations! I have to

get better at this live...) because I was on the other side of the

arena and was suprised when she threw it. You'll also notice I got

Dom's first pass and other minor things wrong as well. C'est la vie.

 The entire sequence goes as follows:

 (for any of you that missed the coverage)

 after her Geinger, Miller kips on the high bar (facing low) and does

a 1 1/2 pirouette (540 degrees) to go over the handstand in an

undergrip, then executes a straddle back over the low bar. 'Twas not a

slip grip, but an undergrip (hands in same position as if she were

doing a front giant)

 Miller would get more difficulty if she would hold onto the bar a

little longer and straddle backed to a handstand on low.

 I missed some of the coverage, due to an all-day conference in Akron.

I really hope my mom taped it. But I saw Gutsu's beam - they cut out

tons of the dance before and after (like she started dancing at the

other end of the beam and put her hat on it, just in case you were

wondering how the hat got on the beam in the first place)

 Ooo, I just had a nice thought. I would pay to see Miller do Stalder

swings. I bet she would look amazing doing them. And Endos. Both

Stalders and Endos - just like Missy Marlowe. Yeah...

        Cara

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 23:53:00 BST

From: ***@genie.geis.com

Subject: Reese's Meet

 

Here are a few interesting tidbits from the January 24, 1994, issue of the

_Baltimore Sun_:

 

"Dawes....was awarded $4,400, but declined it to retain her collegiate

eligibility."

 

Miller didn't compete on FX because "she's working on incorporating more

difficult elements into her routine."  What happened to that plane flight

she was supposed to catch? :)

 

It was an excellent meet; don't forget to watch it on TV tomorrow.

 

Debbie

 

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 09:07:00 GMT

From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk

Subject: Reese's Meet

 

>Miller didn't compete on FX because "she's working on

>incorporating more difficult elements into her routine."  What

>happened to that plane flight she was supposed to catch? :)

 

Perhaps that was her more difficult element, to leap from a plane or

was she be pushed by some Psychotic parent who was out to get her :)

 

Clive

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 02:17:23 EST

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Reese's televised

 

My few random thoughts---

 

Miller looked pretty sharp! Cara, if I had to put words to it, I would

call that new Miller move on bars a 1.5 pirouette into straddleback. I

have no idea if that's right or not. At first glance, you're right, it

does look like a twisting slip-grip (the compulsory move as you

pointed out), but in my opinion there is one big, biiig difference:

the grip. The whole big deal about the slip grip is that you are

swinging forward with an overgrip, whereas this Miller move was done

in undergrip (which is normal for forward swinging). It's really easy

for small girls to slip off the bar on a slip grip because their hands

are so tiny.

 

I find it very hard to explain undergrip vs overgrip electronically...

I guess the best way is that if you had a bar in front of you,

overgrip is grabbing the bar "normally", whereas undergrip is grabbing

the bar with your palms facing up. So, for a slip-grip imagine a

handstand on top of the bar in undergrip (your normal bars handstand),

and then having to fall forward, circling your hands as quickly as you

can to get them back on top of the bar. Hmm, maybe I'll stop trying to

explain this right about now. Somebody please tell me that made *some*

sense. =)

 

Anyway, Miller certainly looked to me to be in pretty good shape;

doesn't look like any hiatus is in the near future, does it? With this

new move, I have new respect for her bars.

 

Dawes - left out the whip-full on her first floor pass, but who cares?

It was still awesome. And what guts to do the three layout pass on

beam again after missing it. Cara was right, her dance seems much more

comfortable for her now.

 

Onodi - gee, we saw so much of her!

 

Efton, the great predictor of our time -- yup, it was short in TV

time!

 

Miller again - nice to see her so much more relaxed talking in front

of a camera than she used to be.

 

Wecker - amazing with his nodding to the crowd during an iron cross!!!

I couldn't believe my eyes. The man must have arms of steel.

 

Men in general -- looked sharp! I enjoyed seeing Dimas hit his Kovacs

and Bilozerchev and Mogilny out there once again. Keswick has a better

Kovacs than Dimas though, I think. I wonder what it is that makes

Keswick's Kovacs so smooth.

 

Chusovitina - looked a little rougher than I expected she would on her

floor tumbling, but then again, I was expecting her to be in the same

competitive shape as the 1991 Worlds. Still looked pretty decent.

 

Gutsu - what a strange beam costume and what a high score. Ah well,

that's the style of pro-gymnastics, I suppose.

 

Rachele

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 15:24:25 -0700 (MST)

From: ***@sosi.com

Subject: Reese's televised

 

> Anyway, Miller certainly looked to me to be in pretty good shape; doesn't

> look like any hiatus is in the near future, does it?  With this new move, I

> have new respect for her bars.

 

Did anyone think she looked like she gained a little weight? Just a

little.

 

> Onodi - gee, we saw so much of her!

 

What a bummer. 

 

> Gutsu - what a strange beam costume and what a high score.  Ah well, that's

> the style of pro-gymnastics, I suppose.

 

Yeah. The scoring system was sad. (They gave 30 points for difficulty,

30 for execution, 30 for something else, and 10 for bonus for a total

of 100) Almost EVERYONE got perfect 30's, with the winner was usually

determined by differences in bonus. HellOOO ?!

 

On NBC this afternoon, they did a segment on Atlanta hosting the '96

Olympics. They had a section on gymnastics and talked about Tonya

Maiers, Jenni Thompson (sp?) and Soni Meduna being the next

generation. Pretty cool. Didn't mention anything about Shannon Miller

which really surprised me. The media usually blows those types of

things out of proportion.

 

Also, to follow up on a thread from a few months ago, they mentioned

that the gymnastics events will be held in the Georgia Dome (where the

Superbowl is being held), not the Omni. That will hopefully mean that

tickets aren't impossible to get.

 

Andy

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 10:30:02 PST

From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM

Subject: Reese's World Cup - Format and stuff

 

Robyn writes:

 

  Maybe not the gymnasts bashing each other, but maybe a gymnast with a

  psycho parent... wasn't there a case where a mother KILLED the competition

  so her daughter could become head cheerleader?

 

Didn't actually have her killed, but contacted someone to put a

contract out on her. He was scared by the whole thing and went to the

police. The HBO movie about it was incredibly funny, starring Holly

Hunter. Ahem, gymnastics tie in: They show the girls working out at

some gym (surely stunt doubles.) You can see the uneven bars and stuff

in the background, and a few of the girls do some back handsprings and

such, while the parents look on. This all happened in Texas, where our

beloved Forum Manager attends a hhighly regarded University. ;^)

 

Okay, I'm beginning and ending my own non sequiter thread, mildly

associated with gymnastics...

 

-George

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 13:29:52 -0500 (EST)

From: <***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

Subject: Reese's World Cup - Format and stuff

 

> Maybe not the gymnasts bashing each other, but maybe a gymnast with a

> psycho parent... wasn't there a case where a mother KILLED the competition

> so her daughter could become head cheerleader?

 

Ah yes, the Texas cheerleader case, the problem with all this is, it's

not that difficult to have the oppunity to hurt someone assuming one

is willing.

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:22:28 -0600

From: <***@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>

Subject: Reese's World cup TELEVISED

 

According to today's _Tribune_, the Reese's World Cup will be on ABC

at 4pm today.

 

It should be very interesting to see what type of coverage this meet

gets since Kim didn't go at all, and Shannon left early. Maybe we'll

actually get to see some foreign competition... or maybe it will be a

very short TV program. ;)

 

Have fun

Efton

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 15:51:31 -0500

From: ***@cykick.jvnc.net

Subject: Reese's World cup TELEVISED

 

Efton writes (in part):

>According to today's _Tribune_, the Reese's World Cup will be on ABC at 4pm

>today. 

> 

>It should be very interesting to see what type of coverage this meet gets

>since Kim didn't go at all, and Shannon left early.  Maybe we'll actually

>get to see some foreign competition... or maybe it will be a very short

>TV program. ;)

 

Well...the TV Guide indicates "time approximate after golf" - so it

may get cut up a bit. :-( That's why we're gonna tape skating and try

to watch this in "real-time."

 

Helena

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 14:13:51 -0500 (EST)

From: <***@dorsai.dorsai.org>

Subject: Results & Stuff

 

Last Saturday Penn St. 277 Temple 268. (Sorry don't have exact scores)

Acording to Temple coaches Temple did not hit as well as they could

have. Off to Southern Connecticut for Southern vs. Temple Report

tomorrow!! Have a nice weekend!

                    

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 08:33:57 -0500 (EST)

From: <***@dorsai.dorsai.org>

Subject: Scores

 

Mens Scores NCAA

1/28/94- Temple 262.5  Southern Connecticut 233   CCNY 153.70 @ Southern Conn.

 

1/29/94  Syracuse 266.6  Army 266.4 @ West Point!!

 

Have a nice Day!!

 

------------------------------

 

Date:  94-01-31 11:59:15 EST

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: See what I mean?

 

This is a postscript to my message on the lousy (and sometimes biased) job

commentators do regarding the origins and names of tricks.

 

I watched some of the Reese's "World Cup" (what-EVER) and when

Chusovitina did her hop-full on bars, Kathy Johnson's comment was that

Chusovitina and Miller were the first to do it. Yes, that's

technically true, but it tends to obscure the fact that Chusovitina

was competing it at least a year (and a half?) before Shannon. There

was no contemporaneity, no credit to be shared for coming up* with the

trick, as she made it sound. Am I just oversensitive, or is there an

attempt here to play up Shannon (who, don't get me wrong, I like very

much) at the expense of someone else?

 

*I know she didn't "come up" with it in that the men already did it.

 

-- Gimnasta

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 11:25:42 -0400 (EDT)

From: ***@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu

Subject: Skating moms

 

 CBS Evening News is doing a piece tonight (Jan 30 a.k.a. Super Bowl

Sunday) on how pushy the world of skating is on young girls. I figured

some might be interested due to the recent discussion of the Texas

Cheerleading Mother and the correlation between young female skaters

and gymnasts. Thank goodness a Harding-type incident hasn't happened

in gymnastics yet (and I hope never). I can't imagine all the bad

press gymnastics would get - it would make it look as bad as tennis

or, now, skating.

 I guess Dom wants to compete for Stanford since she isn't taking

money and has signed a letter of intent to go there. She's delaying

her entrance by a year.

        Cara

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 13:44:34 EST

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: Spanish and Knees

 

I tried to respond to the question about the Spanish word "gimnasta"

directly, but it was returned, so I'll do it this way. It is the same

word for men and women. Only the article "el" or "la" and the

adjectives change to indicate whether the gymnast is male or female.

 

On the subject of bashing people's knees -- a little girl gymnast may

not be able to arrange such a thing, but parents are perfectly capable

of doing so. There are also other ways of sabotaging competitors,

which maybe should not be listed so as not to give anybody any ideas,

but which are perfectly within the reach of teenage girls.

Fortunately, I haven't yet heard of any actual incident, but it

definitely should remain in the gymnastics world's mind as a concern

as the sport becomes more and more a source of $$$ for those who are

successful.

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 20:42:26 PST

From: <***@us.oracle.com>

Subject: Spanish and Knees and owls and bigmouthed govt studies and fitness and alarms, oh my !

 

I was the one she referred to about the bounced message. Indeed I got

the message. I could have done this in private mail, but many of you

are on AOL and may be suffering with bounced messages.

 

AOL means well, but their mailer sux ! The AOL mailer breaks the RFC

for proper mail header processing. The message got to me but AOL

thought it was mailing to @@AOL which confused the daylights out of

the operating system.

 

When Tanya's body guard gets out of jail, we should send him after the

sysad group at AOL ? (manical laughter)

 

Someone made a quip about Rachelle's well known school, and her net

connection being down. Sounds like those kids at "Cougar High" nailed

Rice again ! (more laughter)

 

Recently some moronic govt agency did a hatchet job type study on some

of my favorite foods. They had the NERVE to call "Fetticini Alfredo" a

"heart attack on a plate". Talk about hearts... where in the name of

carries corset is theirs?

 

Seriously, kidding aside, I find pasta to be a great source of complex

carbs, filling, satisfying, economical toward the end of the paycheck,

quick to prepare etc. What do the rest of you put on your training

tables ? What does our own USGF and USOC server their gymnasts on

their training tables ?

 

A week ago, I looked at myself in the mirror after climbing out of the

shower. Scary ! I realized that my injuries over the past year have

kept me out of the gym too much. I'M FAT !!! My bike "Midnite" & I

took a spill Monday night on US-101. Im finally well enough I decided

to start walking more. I work on the 11th floor, but several of my

servers are in the data centre on the 3rd floor and I spend a LOT of

time riding elevators. I decided to try the stairs. BAD IDEA !!! I

tried it tonight and set off all sorts of alarms. I thought security

was gonna KILL ME ! WOW WOW WOW !!

 

------------------------------

 

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 9:23:00 EST

From: <***@flemingc.on.ca>

Subject: truth vs. tv ratings

 

In reply to:

 

Gimnasta

 

.... and when Chusovitina did her hop-full on bars, Kathy Johnson's

comment was that Chusovitina and Miller were the first to do it. Yes,

that's technically true, but it tends to obscure the fact that

Chusovitina was competing it at least a year (and a half?) before

Shannon. There was no contemporaneity, no credit to be shared for

coming up* with the trick, as she made it sound. Am I just

oversensitive, or is there an attempt here to play up Shannon...

 

*I know she didn't "come up" with it in that the men already did it.

 

***** NOTES from JOHN at 1/30/94 7:55a

  You're being a little oversensitive in that Cusotinova has little

more right to the name for the move and any way that the TV can

stretch the truth for the sake of TV ratings is what Wide World of

Sports is about, and any (US) television for that matter.

    After all, look at all the press that Mary Lou Retton still gets

for all that she did for world gymnastics. She did very little for the

world but did a great deal for the US and that over-reacting to her

has been good for the sport. So long as they don't take someone elses

credit then they are not doing too much bad.

   

   

 

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Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 14:51:21 EST

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: truth vs. tv ratings

 

> ***** NOTES from JOHN at 1/30/94 7:55a

> You're being a little oversensitive in that Cusotinova has little more

> right to the name for the move and any way that the TV can stretch the

 

Why doesn't Chusovitina have rights to the name of the move? She was

the first to do it in international competition. Because of this, the

move, in the official rule book (Code of Points) terms the move a

"Chusovitina". It seems to me like she had a right to the name, and

also it seems to me that the commentators are taking away from that

prestige by implying that Miller is the only or first to do it. If I

had a move named after me (it would be of E level, of course), I

wouldn't like someone else consistently getting more recognition for

it.

 

I agree though that this is all done for TV ratings, and as much as we

hate the way they hype up some of the stuff, it does eventually get

more fans.

 

Rachele

 

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Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 18:01:12 EST

From: ***@sunland.gsfc.nasa.gov

Subject: truth vs. tv ratings

 

I have a comment to make on the topic of whether or not a gymnast has

a right to the name for a move. I don't see why Chusovitina should

have the full over the bar named after her...wasn't it used my a man

first? What is the distinc- tion between mens and womems? If either

invents a move and executes it first does/should the other sex get the

name for the move because they were the first to compete in in their

domain i.e. mens gymnastics or womens?

 

I really don't think its a TV ratings thing. Why would anyone like to

see more gymnastics just because Miller can do a full over the bar.

Its more of a comentary thing. Comentators tend to either blow things

out of proportion or focus on athlets that they favor. If I recall

wasn't Olga Korbit mistakenly given credit for being the first to do a

somi on beam. I recal reading an article which qutoed the athlete who

was the first to compete it and I think she said they just overlooked

her.

 

Comments?

 

Dennis

 

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Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 21:05:04 EST

From: ***@aol.com

Subject: truth vs. tv ratings

 

I'm logging in far too much today (trying to avoid my psychology reading,

grin)...

 

Dennis:

> to the name for a move. I don't see why Chusovitina should have the full

over

> the bar named after her...wasn't it used my a man first? What is the

distinc-

> tion between mens and womems? If either invents a move and executes it

first

> does/should the other sex get the name for the move because they were the

> first to compete in in their domain i.e. mens gymnastics or womens?

 

The method for naming of moves isn't absolutely consistent by any

means. Basically, if the FIG wants to name a move after a gymnast,

then they do, and one can *generally* say that it was because s/he was

the first to do it. But it's really an iffy sort of thing. It's

sometimes separated by gender and sometimes not... like I said,

there's not any real consistency. A lot of times just because a move

is named after a gymnast, people still don't call it by the gymnast's

name (such as the hop-full. Or, for example, no one is going to call a

handspring front layout vault an "Ewdokimova".) There are some moves

that will be named after a gymnast in a certain code and then just

given a generic name in the next code. Or if a move is "revived" then

it's given the name of the gymnast who revived it. I don't have any

specific examples, but it's what I have been told. Perhaps someone on

Gymn knows some more concrete facts...?

 

> I really don't think its a TV ratings thing. Why would anyone like to see

> more gymnastics just because Miller can do a full over the bar. Its more

> of a comentary thing. Comentators tend to either blow things out of

proportion

 

I think it has everything to do with TV ratings-- how the show ranks

and also the share of viewers that it gets. "More of a commentary

thing" ... commentary is *directly* related to ratings. A lot of times

former gymnasts (and ice skaters) will start out as good commentators

but they are pressured by the producers (who want better ratings) to

jazz up their commentary, which is why they degenerate into the noise

that we patiently tolerate. (Hmm, nope, I'm not bitter.)

 

Of course Miller being implied to be to the only full-hopper (grin) in

gymnastics isn't alone going to make people flock to the sport. But it

is one of the many ingredients used to make her into a pop icon.

People like to see that this little 16 year old wisp of a girl has the

determination, drive, and so forth to become a champion. Anything that

adds to that mystique and aura -- such as having a move named after

you, or being the only one in the world being able to do a hop-full --

helps the image.

 

> or focus on athlets that they favor. If I recall wasn't Olga Korbit

mistakenly

> given credit for being the first to do a somi on beam.  I recal reading an

 

Nancy Thies (-Marshall), I believe, was the first to do a back somi in

the Olympics, because she competed in an earlier session than Olga.

 

Btw, a couple more notes re the televised Reese's -- (1) Okino sure

reads cue cards well, (2) they advertised the video that Karen won in

our end-of-the-year drawing, (3) anyone catch that commercial where

the gymnast does a 1.5 layout and lands on the ceiling? How funny.

 

Rachele

 

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End of gymn Digest

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