gymn Digest Sat, 19 Mar 94 Volume 2 : Issue 88

Today's Topics:
Country Hopping
Flags and music (3 msgs)
Floor Music (4 msgs)
Hello from a new member
No, you haven't been inadvertently unsubsc
No Sullivan for Miller
PVI Press Release
switching flags
TV Gym

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 18:45:42 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Country Hopping

"what is there to stop a gymnast from resigning (or being forced out)
from one national federation and then moving to a different country
and joining their federation so that they could continue competing."

Well in response to Clive's question there are rules that prohibit
athletes from "country hopping". While you may attempt to get
citizenship (and sometimes rules are bent while waiting for that to
come through) you may not compete for another country until you are a
legal citizen of reseidence, at least for World or Olympic
competitions. Citizenship attempts are usually based upon the fact
that you can claim some sort of relative (parent or grandparent) that
was a citizen of that country. Also, I belive that poltical refugee
status is taken into consideration.

In recent years there have been many such cases. Louisa Portacuerro
attempted and failed to obtain CAN citizenship. She lived and trained
in Canada with her coach and competed in their national championships
and such. Valeri Belenky was allowed a special privialge in competing
for the FIG as an"indepednat" because his home country of Azerbajian
was not then an FIG member. It has since been accepted on a
provisional basis but I know that their are some rules as to countries
at war competing in things like the Olympic games so I guess Belenky
is still sort of in limbo. He was, and is, as far as I know still
living and training in Germany (as is Sergei Kharkov though I don't
know his connection) because his grandparents were apparently German.
You can live outside your country as many many athletes do and still
compete for it. Another example from the figure skating world is
Russian ice dancer Grosha Sur who even though he and his partmer are
the American champions they couldn't compete in Liilehammer because he
is not a US citizen. Also there was a Russian man competing for Israel
and an American competing for South Korea.

It is usually a highly controversial subject since a "forgeiner"
coming in and competing for another country takes away chances for a
native to compete. I do know that there were some harsh feelings in
the CAN community when Portacuerro would take national titles away
from Canadaian gymnasts. All in all it's a sticky situation.

Susan

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 14:26:02 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Flags and music

I've never seen floor music listed in a media guide, but then, I
haven't seen a whole lot of those (though I have seen a few, including
bigger schools).

One substantial obstacle (in some countries, anyway) to switching
federations, at least for purposes of international competition, is
changing citizenship (for ex. Renee Roca & Gorsha Sur). Aside from
that, the FIG has regulations on this, and the wait, as Mara said, is
like 3 or 5 years, I forget (I don't have those rules with me).

Pretty funny that this was brought up -- I was about to bring up
something similar. I was browsing through the Prodigy BB, and someone
said she thought that if Baiul and Petrenko were going to train in the
US, they should compete for the US (the subject of taxes also came up
in the replies). I don't think they should, for a couple of reasons.
Comments?

Btw, someone had been asking about gymnastics news on other services
-- I didn't like the *P* BB much. I seems like it's full of
12-year-olds.

: )
Gimnasta

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 15:16:42 EST
From: ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Flags and music

Gimnasta writes:

>Pretty funny that this was brought up -- I was about to bring up something
>similar. I was browsing through the Prodigy BB, and someone said she thought
>that if Baiul and Petrenko were going to train in the US, they should compete
>for the US (the subject of taxes also came up in the replies). I don't think
>they should, for a couple of reasons. Comments?

I've seen a similar post on rec.skate (perhaps from the same person),
and had to laugh. Skaters from other countries, even
world-championship medalists like Gregor Filipowski (from Poland, and
probably misspelled) have been training here for years. And why not,
if the facilities are better here? The funny thing is that no one
from the U.S. demanded that Kristi Yamaguchi start competing for
Canada when she moved there to train! (Taxes are something else
entirely, and the U.S. does tax foreign U.S. residents, as well as
U.S. citizens living abroad; we don't overlook any possible sources of
revenue :-).)

I guess my feeling is that you should represent whatever country
you're a citizen of. What I don't like is the practice of taking
advantage of the loose definitions of "dual citizenship" used by the
IOC (something like you can represent a country if one of your
grandparents was born there) to go from a country where you couldn't
get a slot on the Olympic team to representing one you they can,
without changing your actual citizenship, and thus depriving a citizen
of that country of a chance to represent it at the Olympics. (I'm not
so averse to the practice in the case where the other country
otherwise wouldn't send anyone to the Olympics; it's "stealing"
someone's spot that I most object to.)

This argument does not apply to non-U.S. citizens attending U.S.
schools and competing in scholastic sports; in that case, its the
*school* you're representing as one of its students.

>>Kathy

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 15:16:03 PST
From: ***@cisco.com
Subject: Flags and music

I was browsing through the Prodigy BB, and someone said she thought
that if Baiul and Petrenko were going to train in the US, they should
compete for the US (the subject of taxes also came up in the replies).
I don't think they should, for a couple of reasons. Comments?

... The funny thing is that no one from the U.S. demanded
that Kristi Yamaguchi start competing for Canada when she moved
there to train!

And the earliest of the US men's gynmastics medals that started off
the recent trend of the US actually standing a chance was Peter
Corman. (Bronze on FX, 1976?) He trained in japan.

We had one of the better gymnasts on our HS team move (independent of
his familly) to another school district to get better coaching. While
we understood his motives, we all thought it was a pretty sleazy move
on the part of the other coach...

Chops

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 08:44:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Subject: Floor Music

Oh, heck, I'll break the silence.
Dennis and I have been discussing the origin of the music of a
couple of floor routines, and we both think that more of an effort
should be made to make the music the routines are based on more
avaliable, not only in reporting by the media but also by the
competitiors. If it's from something, what is it? Conversely, if it
is original, shouldn't the composer and/or arranger be given more
credit in this day and age? I'm not about to blame anyone, but we
think this would help the aspect of gymnastics as a spectator sport
and as an ARTISTIC sport (we all know how disappointed we get with
poorly done women's floor routines...).
Skating music is almost always announced, even if it is
obvious to most people. We think floor music should be the same.
Perhaps a list should be assembled prior to competition where the
competitiors send in the composer and arranger to their floor music.
Cara

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 11:01:10 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Floor Music

To All:
Cara suggested that gymnastics promoters tell what music the
gymnast is using and who composed it. Well, although I haven't seen
that done on the club/elite level, it's common fare in collegiate
competition.
As part of the media packets and media guides, each gymnast's
floor routine music is named, along with the composer(s). In fact, I
remember one year, a television announcer drove me nuts about one
floor performer's routine. It was after a song called "I want to be a
cowboy."
Sooooo, throughout the whollleeeeee routine, he kept saying, "She
wants to be a cowboy."
Ahhhhhhh, shut up already, I wanted to yell.
--- Ron in Florida

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 12:13:46 EST
From: ***@sunland.gsfc.nasa.gov
Subject: Floor Music

Ron,

I've been to a couple of college meets and I've never seen the the
music listed in the media guide... you mention it was common....maybe
for the bigger schools.

Dennis

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 18:45:50 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Floor Music

While in theory the idea of annoucning a title or composer of floor
music sounds like a good one it's not all that practical. Often floor
music is purchased "in bulk" from various providers of synthized
versions of well known songs. Also, many gymnsats cut their own music
from quasi "illegal" sources (ie. the radio etc.). I'm not a copyright
attorney or anything but publizing this probably wouldn't be in the
best intrest of gymnasts from the more far reaching countries.

Susan

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 22:12:00 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@db.erau.edu
Subject: Hello from a new member

Hello,
This is my first time posting to the Gymn, so as requested I
am sending an intro. My name is Jaye and I go by the handel
Jimmy Olsen. This comes from fellow cadets in my ROTC batallion who
say I alwasys have my camera me. (which is partly true) I am nineteen
years old and go to school at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in
Daytona Beach, Fl. I am origionaly from San Antonio, TX, but with my
dad in the military I moved quite frequently. I am currently a
sophmore studing aerospace engineering. I also work as a freelance
photographer to help pay for school.
My interst in gymnastics comes from one of my other favorite
sports, cheerleading, of which I am one. I started following the
sport after the splendid performance of Shannon Miller in the 92
olympics. Last summer I had the chance to work as a photographer at
the United States Olympic festival in San Antonio. He I meet Shannon
Miller, Coach Nuno, and Dymno Gymnastics publicist, Dayrl DeVualt.
After the festival, I became friend with Dynmo Gym, and have been
working for them since. As for intrest, I am mostly intersted in
womens world class gymnastics.
I currently recive media creduentials through USA Gymnastics
for most of the competions in the southeastern U.S.
I will be covering the competion the weekend of March 25-6 for
Dymno and will be glad to post results as soon as I return.
It will be great to get to know ya'll better.

Jimmy Olsen

P.S. can someone send be bio's on some of the active people on the
list. Thanks

No Sig yet.

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 13:25:05 GMT
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: No, you haven't been inadvertently unsubsc

>Seems every time we get a few days's silence on the list,
>I get a dozen pieces of mail from people who wonder if
>they've been removed by mistake. Well, if you get this mail,
>you're still on the list. ;-)

Well it is strange, I mean sometimes there are 30 maybe more messages
every day for months on end and then for no apparent reason there is
zippo. It's not even a gradual reduction of messages it just stops
dead.

Anyway lets get the ball moving again, in a psuedo related subject
what is there to stop a gymnast from resigning (or being forced out)
from one national federation and
then moving to a different country and joining their federation
so that they could continue competing.

Clive.

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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 01:33:48 -0600 (CST)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: No Sullivan for Miller

This year, the Sullivan award went to Charlie Ward, a football player
for Florida State, who also won the Heisman Trophy.

The Sullivan award is given out by the US Amateur Athletic Association
(AAU), which is located in Indianapolis. It is given to the top
amateur US athlete.

For the second year in a row, Shannon Miller was one of ten finalists
for the award, which is chosen by vote by more than 2,000 people,
including members of the AAU, the USOC, former Sullivan winners, and
the news media.

The only gymnast to ever win the Sullivan is Kurt Thomas, who won it
in 1979.

The other finalists this year were Bruce Baumgartner, wrestling; Brian
Boitano, figure skating; Gail Devers, track and field; Bobby Hurley,
basketball; Dan Jansen, speedskating; Dan O'Brien, decathlon; Sheryl
Swoopes, basketball; and Jenny Thompson, swimming.

Rachele

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 15:04:53 PST
From: ***@sol.metaware.com
Subject: PVI Press Release

The following is the Press Release from the Peter Vidmar Invitational.
Individual results will follow shortly (but I can't read that part of
the fax!) Also, I typed the Press release exactly, so if you find some
confusing parts, don't blame me....<g>

--Robin

The 3rd Peter Vidmar International Men's Gymnastics Invitational "The
3rd annual Peter Vidmar Invitational", one of the most prestiges
Gymnastics Invitationals in the United States took place on February
26 and 27 at Pacific Palisades High School in Pacific Palisades,
Caliornia.

Eight months of intense preparation by Maureen Milland Heinz
Schulmeister of Broadway Gymnastics School in Santa Monica (owned by
Mary and Michael Cates), enabled them to present 320 athletes from
five different countries -- Armenia, Germany, Canada, Mexico, Kuwait
-- and fourteen different states.

The Hosts were proud to present Awards of Honors to some ot the
greatest athletes in the history of gymnastics: Hrant Shaginnian and
Albert Azarian, leading the Armenian delegation to victory at the
Peter Vidmar Invitational. They are both multiple World and Olympic
Champions.

We were proud to announce Peter Vidmar's Induction into the Hall of
Fame of Sports at UCLA the first day of competition. Peter Vidmar, in
whose honor the meet is conducted, was present throughout the
competition presenting the awards not just to the greats of gymnastics
but to all the greats of this competition.

All levels of gymnastics were present, starting with the 8 year old
class 6 up to the 25 year old olympic level athlete, showing great
performances to a record breaking audience of a sold out gym.

The very high level of competition led the Armenian Team to a gold,
followed by the OSC Germany with a silver and Ontario Canada with
bronze. In the younger division Ontario, Canada succeded in winning
gold, Federation Mexico with silver, and Gymnastics World from New
Jersey winning the bronze.

The Class 3 modified optional division was led by the Arizona Flairs
from Arizona, followed by Queen City Gymnastics, Ohio and Cascase
Elite, Washington, and the class 4 modified optionals 1st for World
Stars, California; 2nd Cal Suns, California and 3rd the Arizona
Flairs.

In the Compulsory level Class 5 the host, Broadway Gymnastics School
took first place honors, followed by Monterrey Gymnastics, Mexico for
second and Aurora School of Gymnastics, Colorado in third. In the
youngest compulsory division California clearly showed dominance with
New Hope winning first place followed by USGTC in second and SCEGA in
third place.

In the individual All Around we would like to mention the outstanding
performances of
Norair Sarkissian, Armenia (16-18 optionals);
David St. Pierre, Broadway Gymnastics(19+ optionals);
Yewki Tomita, Gymnastics World (14-15 optionals);
Jason Gatson, Arizona Flairs (class 3 modified);
Johnny Cano, World Stars (class 4 modified 10+);
Josh Birkner, Cal Suns (class 4 modified 14+);
Victor Carreiro, World Stars (class 5 7-9);
Scott Weber, New Hope (class 5 10-11);
Ben Ganger, Broadway Gymnastics (class 5 14+);
Jonathan Leeman, New Hope (class 6 10-11);
Michael Keeter American Academy (class 6 12+);

Congratulations to all All Around winners. Special thanks to all
Sponsors involved: Xerox, Pedigree, Red Lion Hotel, John Hancock
Financial Services, Sparkletts Water, Asics Tiger, Jack in the Box, LA
Gear, Frank Endo, Beverly Inn Flowers, Zee Medical, Sign Masters.
----And all the families that helped to make it all a success!----

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 12:45:49 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: switching flags

>Anyway lets get the ball moving again, in a psuedo related
subject what is there to stop a gymnast from resigning
(or being forced out) from one national federation and
then moving to a different country and joining their federation
so that they could continue competing.

Isn't there some sort of rule that says a competitor either has to get
a signed release from the original country or wait 3 years before
competing again?

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 23:35:52 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: TV Gym

On Thursday March 24th ESPN will show the Hilton Invite from Atlana
(11 Feb '94). It's on at 5 PM Pacific so I'm assuming that it would be
on at 8 PM EST.

Susan

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End of gymn Digest
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