gymn Digest Mon, 2 May 94 Volume 2 : Issue 119
Today's Topics:
Celebrations and the Like (2 msgs)
Dawes Theory
Gymn Poll #2 (2 msgs)
leos
Lost visas and the like...
Men's EF...ABC Style
Moist hands and ripping (2 msgs)
more movies (2 msgs)
Music (2 msgs)
O'Neill celebration
Observations - Men's EF (4 msgs)
Others Still Here... (2 msgs)
Random Administravia
Scherbo Stuff...
Scherbo Stuff...Me Rambling...of Course
Still Here...
trip to worlds (2 msgs)
trip to worlds #2
Trivia?
Uzbekistan girls
Worlds (random comments) (2 msgs)
This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.
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Date: Mon, 02 May 94 18:24:35 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Celebrations and the Like
Just so that I can say that absolutely no topic goes uncommented on by
moi...
As for celebrations of success I have mixed feelings. I saw zippo wrong with
Paul's joy at a stuck landing. I especially liked Voroapev's little skip off
the podium after his HB (C'mon he's way cuter than Paul even with his new bad
hair). Scherbo really reinvents cute every time he hits a set and when he
messes up...boy can that guy pout (you know Scherbo my grandma always said a
little bird will land on your bottom lip when you do that). What I am trying
to say is...In general, pumped fists, leaps, hugs, kisses,and the like are
not only fine but actually nice to see (you're lucky to get a small smile
from the girls when they win the Olympics for god's sake). There is of course
the ones that go overboard (sorry to say this is usually the American guys).
Remember Trent in Barcelona? Yeah I know that Trent must have been mighty
shocked to land a routine on his feet instead of his butt for a change but
c'mon...it was a bit much. Scherbo won six golds and all his celebraions put
together were about half of Trent's "joy"...I thought he and Ed might
announce their engagement afterwords.
On the opposite side of the question there are the people that make such a
fuss when they mess up as to detract from the other athletes. Scherbo can be
guilty of this but at least he doesn't lash out at his helpless coach...like
some people who missed their Kovacs in the Men's Olympic AA that I could
mention. Poor Yefim! Every time Scott messes up (read: every time Scott
performs) poor Yefim gets it. During the men's AA when Yefim attempted to
gentley point out, as a good coach should, that he was just a little over
Scott practically bit his head off ("I know Iwas over obviously I was
over...no top 10 now"). Now just so you won't think this is a strictly
anti-American rant I do know that many other poeple from many other nations
are guilty of this particualr brand of poor sportsmanship. In the '92 Am. Cup
Karbonenko (whom I just adore) screamed at his poor coach for about a day for
not adjusting the board just right (half inch to the left...quarter inch to
the right) for his handspring double front (he butsued in practice and was
not a happy camper). It must say I was quite shocked when later I discovered
that he was such a nice guy.
Of course most of these are isolated incidents (Trent, Karby, etc.)
unfortuanately with Scott that is not the case...I mean any respect that I
may have had for him (when he hits he's an okay gymnast) is so totally gone.
Susan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 18:38:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: ***@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu
Subject: Celebrations and the Like
> Karbonenko (whom I just adore) screamed at his poor coach for about a day for
> not adjusting the board just right (half inch to the left...quarter inch to
> the right) for his handspring double front (he butsued in practice and was
> not a happy camper).
Anyone care to comment if a judge can throw a gymnast out of the meet for
being an idiot (or just plain disrespectful) while celebrating? If a
quarter inch of a board adjustment is that important, Mr. Karbonenko
should have set up his own equipment. The coach doesn't set his p-bars
setting...why rely on him for vault.
I really liked how the Chinese men (of a few years ago) finnished all
their routines with their arms in the air, then turned their palms in
toward each other, and lowered them back down to their side. Their
routine was not complete until all of this was complete. I thought it
looked good, and they could celebrate later after they left the mat. I
found it kind of annoying that the Nebraska guys seemed to be celebrating
before they even landed their dismounts last week.
Also, I have a question about World's event finals on horse. The first
guy they showed (who started off with about five E's on each pommel at a
time)
must have had a point and a half of deductions on form. Sorry I cant
remember his name or country, but did anyone else even notice. He was
awsome, but so sloppy.
And how about that woman who tends the horses. That was the longest and
most non sports related ABC creation I have ever seen. I know the
networks want to appeal to a broad audience, but we tuned in for our
yearly hour of broadcasted gymnastics and this is what was there. Please...
David
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 May 94 11:07:57 EDT
From: ***@eos.ncsu.edu
Subject: Dawes Theory
Hello fellow Gymn'ers! This is something I thought up to distract me
from the rigors of Finals week. . .
Is it possible that Dominique's failures in the World Championships
could be a psychological thing? I remember an interview with Dan Jansen
during the Winter Olympics in Lillehammer, where he talked about his
sister dying during Calgary '88 and that having a severe psychological
effect on him. (Which is true for a death of anyone close to a person.)
It became sort of a subliminal thing for him to fail due his falling
during his races in Calgary. Do you think that due to Dominique's
family's troubles she could have that same sort of subliminal thing
happening to her?
Something to make you say, "Hmmmm. . . "
--Brent
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 15:24:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: Gymn Poll #2
Gymn Poll #2
Well, for Gymn Poll #2 I was going to do a "pick your favorites" for
Worlds, but Mara beat me to that one! So instead, we'll do "what
should the future of Gymn be?", a topic inspired by the recent thread
on starting rec.sport.gymnastics.
First of all, some background. This topic has come up in the past, not
on Gymn, but among Gymn admin. We threw around the idea for awhile
among six or seven of us, and the general consensus was that while we
saw the benefits of a newsgroup, it was in our best interest to
continue operating as a mailing list. Here were the pros and cons of
each that we hashed out:
Gymn as a mailing list
----------------------
o Audience is strongly interested in gymnastics (people only subscribe
to lists if they _really_ want all the mail; there are lots of
passers-by in newsgroups that create a lot of "noise")
o More people have access to email; many commercial services do not
have Usenet.
o For those on commercial systems with both email and Usenet, email is
cheaper because there is almost always a command for logging on,
sending and retrieving mail, and logging off, all automatically and
thus quickly and cheaply. No such amenities for Usenet. (Well, they
probably exist, but they're not as widespread as mail utilities.)
o Mailing lists have a friendly atmosphere, with little flaming.
Newsgroups tend to be more confrontational; people have less respect
for each other; and there's a lot of "noise" with people flaming each
other or beating topics to death.
o Gymn is a defined group of people, and so we can work with our
members to obtain press passes for gymnastics meets when possible.
With a newsgroup, we'd have to be FAR more restrictive about this and
need to find some way to define "membership" in gymn.
Gymn as a newsgroup
-------------------
o Newsgroups are easier to locate... people look for newgroups first
and so more people would find us. We could use this higher visibility
to educate the public about gymnastics when TV messes it up. (grin)
o People with (threaded) newsreaders could manage Gymn messages
easily.
o High traffic would not overload people's mailboxes. The '96 Olympics
wouldn't blow people's mail quotas to the roof! =) Some of the people
who dropped Gymn because the traffic was too high would probably read
the newsgroup.
o rec.sport.gymnastics will probably get started sooner or later
anyways; with that in mind, we want to be the ones to start it.
o Gymn has 170+ members now, and so could probably obtain the
necessary vote numbers to actually form the group
o On one hand, newsgroups attract flamers, etc. On the other hand,
we're beginning to get more of a newsgroup feel in Gymn, and flaming
might evolve in Gymn eventually, despite our valient efforts against
it... a newsreader is much more adept at managing unwanted articles
than a mailreader is.
o Digests might become unmanageable; presumably the newsgroup would
attract a lot of flaming and ridiculous threads such as spelling or
quoting wars (but you said but he said but she said) which have
nothing to do with gymnastics... the content would make digests almost
unbearable.
o For those who think 170 is large for a mailing list, our friends
over in Track and Field have a mailing list that numbers about 300+.
Could both exist?
-----------------
One of the ideas that came out in our gymn admin discussions last year
was the thought that perhaps r.s.g and Gymn could co-exist. The
biggest problem, obviously, would be having to keep track of two
forums for those who would want to. However, for the most part, people
were not opposed to r.s.g, they just didn't want to lose Gymn. Two
forums dedicated to gymnastics seems redundant, however.
******
So, the poll question of the month is: what do you think should be the
future of Gymn (let's say for the next year; obviously the situation
could change drastically by then)? Rank the following three choices
in order of your preference:
1. I think Gymn should remain a mailing list.
2. I think Gymn should change to rec.sport.gymnastics.
3. I think Gymn should remain a mailing list but that we should also
try to start r.s.g.
PLEASE SEND EMAIL TO GymnJunk@aol.com with your answer. Feel free to
send comments too.
The Polls will close on Saturday, May 7th.
Rachele
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 15:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com (Texx)
Subject: Gymn Poll #2
> First of all, some background. This topic has come up in the past, not
> on Gymn, but among Gymn admin. We threw around the idea for awhile
> among six or seven of us, and the general consensus was that while we
> saw the benefits of a newsgroup, it was in our best interest to
> continue operating as a mailing list. Here were the pros and cons of
> each that we hashed out:
Thats how I found the list !
I tried to start it last fall, got flamed to death and Rachele sent me mail
telling me about this list and advising me that she couldnt see enough merit
in my arguments for. In fact, I now see things her way. (GRIN!)
Our requests for intros make us a more close knit "family".
We would not be so close if we didnt have the list.
Sometimes someone cluelessly posts without knowing what they are taklking about
and we get dangerously close to a flame war....
I must agree with Rachele that we have less noise here than a news group
however.
Why am I CC ing the group ?
My vote is to stay a list for now and carefully plan for the future news group
when we become bigger and more unwieldly. I would like to start a new thread
"How big is unwieldly enough to force us to start a newsgroup?"
I vote "Stay a list, later start a newsgroup and keep the list for all the folks
without news service out there"
{...}
> o More people have access to email; many commercial services do not
> have Usenet.
Nit picky detail:
NEWS is "netnews".
"USENET" was the network of dial up and forward that began back in the 70's
to get netnews & mail accross the country back when you had to be a skunkwerks
to get on the "ARPANET".
News has nothing to do with USENET unless that is the way it reaches your site.
If you donr have USENET you can still get news off INTERNET.
Sorry I digressed, but we need to be acurate with out nomenclature if we are
going to tangle with the news admins !
{...}
> o Digests might become unmanageable; presumably the newsgroup would
> attract a lot of flaming and ridiculous threads such as spelling or
> quoting wars (but you said but he said but she said) which have
> nothing to do with gymnastics... the content would make digests almost
> unbearable.
No might about it ! Rachele speaks the truth, it WOULD become a mess.
Digests and indexes would be impossible!
> o For those who think 170 is large for a mailing list, our friends
> over in Track and Field have a mailing list that numbers about 300+.
And there are even bigger lists than that !
The CERT list is HUGE !
{Remainder quote truncated}
For those who asked, I have returned to the world of the seeing.
(Im no longer blind). Thanks !
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 13:56:45 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: leos
> USAG should take some cues from Shannon's new line and get some hints
about color, design and variety.
I didn't particularly like the samples from that collection that Shannon wore
at Peachtree.
Mara
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 94 02:27:40 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Lost visas and the like...
On the subject of missing out on comps due to visa/passport mishaps let's add
Korobchinskii and Gutsu to the list who were unable to compete at October's
Birmingham Classic becasue they were stuck in Ukraine while the White House
in Moscow was being bombed by Russian troops. Ever since the breakup of the
Soviet Union the new republics have been very disorganized (and with good
cause) when it comes to their sportsman...you might say they have slightly
more important things are on their minds right now. With their athletes
scattered far and wide (many athletes don't train anywhere near their homes)
republics - those new countries - understandably have a difficult time
gathering the manpower, monwy, and time to run a gymnastics oragainzation
smoothly. Very sad...consideringthe great gymnasts we are missing.
Susan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 94 20:07:01 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Men's EF...ABC Style
As far as floor goes that little Greek kid (oh yeah and he is VERY gay...hide
your shock) was fab...Every front landing clean, high, and stuck cold.
Scherbo was somewhat gifted with his score though that whip immed. 1/2 front
full was the best front full pass I've seen (did I just praise front fulls?
Ah the horror!). Thomas was much better than in Brum (much better draw
too...last year he qualified first up at 8 AM before falling apart on every
other event and then had to go up first again in finals...blind draw my ass)
and least he threw "his" skill - though I've seen him do it better. Wish I
could've seen where Korby f'ed up (did he miss his front full like in AA?). I
think they should've have given him the gold just for showing up again after
they way they screwed him (without a condom) out of the gold last year.
On pommels Poujade was at least twice as elegant as the Romanian and had
plenty of difficulty to go along with it. The juniors really seem to have
caught up with the code here (finally). Huang was SOOO Chinese! Great form,
cool tricks, and a big screw up on the dismount...what a shocker. You know I
wouldn't have really minded seeing the bronze medalists instead of Sohn's
choked set. Esp. Marinich who DID qualify in the lead...also I wonder if
Swiss Chinese guys are any better at their landings then Chinese Chinese
guys?
Okay like I know his routine is hard (should NOT have beaten Dan though) and
all but am I the only one that thinks Paul O'Neill IS the missing link? He
has the body line and extension of Chainey Umphrey. Chechi is god...'nuff
said...well not quite enough...Milo's boyfriend (ie. Burinca) could take over
his crown and with a harder dismount (even though it was short...but so is
he) than the Yurister who know?
Vault. Ah, if only the South Koreans could hit...Well Scherbo can. No big
shock.
Chinese guys are so flat (if you've ever seen Li Jing in a handstand you
know what I mean...hey did you know Jing was at worlds? That's the first he's
been seen since Barcelona. Wonder if he was injured? Maybe he tried to stick
a landing or something silly like that). Liping deserved this one! HUGE pike
double and he stuck!! It's a miracre!! Rustam is from Belarus now...did you
know that..so why is he still wearing that blinding leo? I would have liked
to see Nemov who IS so beautiful and did after all get the bronze.
Hey, doesn't Chainey Umphrey have the body line and form of say...Paul
O'Neill...but I digress... at least he's trying and he's not as big a goober
as the other American guys. Chainey though, a word of advice...black leo with
black background equals "the invisible gymnast"...just a tip. It's so nice to
see Vitali have a high bar routine again...he hasn't since he pulled the
Gaylord after '90 Goodwill Games (and that was a nice Gaylord). I still say
hop full is beaucoup cheap release and he needs to put the double double back
in (whatever happened to the triple double? I saw him do it in October at an
exhib.) but at least he pulled the bonus laden and oh-so-cheap Endo/Stalder
combo (way beneath him). Gee I wish Pegan would have hit so we could see his
trick (Gaylord Barani out). Gee, I REALLY wish Kharkov was there (his name
was on the list to compete for Russia...what the hell happened?) so we could
see his butt...I mean high bar!!! Shoopi IS God (Yuri is only the rings
god...just to clear that up for you) and he HAS won a world's medal before
(last years silver... and what did he get in Indy?...he was ultra cool
there). Those bronze medalists just aren't worth showing I guess. I mean
it was so much more important to show little Ivan who has all the power of
say...a Yurkina...vaulting instead of on HB where he has the highest &
cleanest Kovacs known to man.
Isn't Scherbo cute? Those freckles. Those baby blue eyes. That big sarcastic
mouth. I love how in TV interviews he inserts those half hour pauses before
he answers making the ABC people wanna' kill him.
Why is it that gymnastics is ALWAYS shown on the day that marks Wide World's
anniversary? For that matter when is the last time you've seen gym televised
without benefit of bowling beforehand or the Kentucky Derby (the USSR dual
meet used to always fall around that time)
Still Chatty & Still Susan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 13:28:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu
Subject: Moist hands and ripping
We got into a big argument the other night at the gym over whether moist
or hard hands prevented rips better. I had read in a book that you should
rub lotion into your hands before going to bed each night to keep your
hands soft and less likely to rip, but other girls thought that it would
be better to have harder hands because then the skin would be less likely
to rip. I assume the book I read is right in saying that it's better to
have softer hands (especially because I've read that same thing in more
than one book), but does anyone know why?
Lisa
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 94 13:11:05 PDT
From: ***@cisco.com
Subject: Moist hands and ripping
I assume the book I read is right in saying that it's better to
have softer hands (especially because I've read that same thing in more
than one book), but does anyone know why?
When your hands get "harder" by virtue of calusses and drying, they are not
actually getting "tougher". Dry skin is dead skin which is much weaker with
respect to the "tearing" direction even though it feels harder in the
"vertical" direction. The calluses just provide bumps that stick out and
catch on the bar.
Make sense?
Chops
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 94 2:27:48 EDT
From: ***@freenet1.scri.fsu.edu
Subject: more movies
I've seen two other movies about (or have in them) gymnastics.
DEADLY GAMES-A really bad horror film.It's about athletes at a high
school getting slaughtered one by one.Not really a gymnastics
film,even though two gymnasts get killed.There IS a rudi off p-bars
though.Even though the movie is cheesy I think it's worth renting just
for the stupid ending.You might have trouble finding it though.It's
NOT an A-Picture.
THE GYMNAST-A Showtime thirty minute movie made in 1982(?)Really the
best movie about gymnastics I've seen.It was very realistic and
entertaining.I've seen it about a zillion times.I doubt you'll be able
to see it though.I threw it away two years ago when I started taping
SP instead of EP.(I know Susan...bad,very bad!)It was the usual story
about a gymnast moving to a gymnastics boarding school,having the
gymnasts there better than her,quitting,coming back and winning.My
only gripe is the lead actress looks like she belongs on the Ohio
State Gymnastics team.
If I remember any more,I'll write.
--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 May 94 17:34:22 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: More movies
>DEADLY GAMES-A really bad horror film.It's about athletes at a high
>school getting slaughtered one by one.Not really a gymnastics
film,even though two gymnasts get killed.There IS a rudi off p-bars
>though.Even though the movie is cheesy I think it's worth renting just
>for the stupid ending.You might have trouble finding it though.It's
NOT an A-Picture.
I saw this when I was home over winter break! (on TV not tape.) It was
pretty funny. They're students at some high school for high-level athletes.
Somebody's running around impaling them with a javelin. Lots of cheap
horror-flick stuff like people falling down at precisely the worst moment, a
swimmer deciding to have a practice session in the middle of the night by
herself without so much as bothering to turn on the lights at the pool
(indoor pool). She times herself, too -- turns on the stopwatch, sets it
down, dives in, like that's going to get her anything even remotely like an
accurate time (or maybe swimmers do this; I don't know. But I kinda doubted
it). Anyway at the end we find out who the murderer is. It's pretty
hilarious.
-- gimnasta
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 May 94 21:28:56 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Music
Lisa wrote:
>Yeah, plus their music was awful!! As my father said (during the last
>part of Milosovici's routine),"It sounds like Led Zepplin." Milosovici's
>old music wasn't much better, but I kind of liked Gogean's old music.
Gogean's is Romanian (I think) folk music, and I actually like it, but I
think that might have something to do with having heard it live (when Silivas
used it); I think that music doesn't come across well over TV.
I didn't particularly notice Milosovici's, but on it sounding like Led
Zeppelin, Kurt Browning's short program last year was to Led
Zeppelin("Bonzo's [?] Mantra" or something that sounds like that) and it was
*great* (or at least I *loved* it)! (. . . she writes, hoping she gets away
with mentioning figure skating . . .)
>While we're on this subject...Miller is in *dire* need of some new music!
>So is Borden, if she still has that celestial-sounding music.
Wasn't Borden's music that Bryan Adams song from "Robin Hood" (which, btw, I
can't *stand*)?
-- gimnasta
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 May 94 22:44:06 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Music
>>So is Borden, if she still has that celestial-sounding music.
>Wasn't Borden's music that Bryan Adams song from "Robin Hood" >(which, btw,
I can't *stand*)?
Borden DID have a "Robin Hood" routine but now has one of the most god awful
things that Pozsar has ever put on a floor mat (and that's everything he's
ever done except for Campi's stuff. Amazing how the guy responsible for the
worst sets ever done has the best ever - or one of them anyway - American
dancer at his gym. Is this what Geza really can do? And if so why can't he do
it for everyone else?) It's (Amanda's new set that is - she debuted at
Chunichi) one of those perky, squatty, blooby things that Geza seems to
specialize in. I can't believe that this guy has the nerve to brag on his
classical dance training and then in the same breath talk about Kim Zmeskal's
"In The Mood" routine as one of the "best he's ever done." Even if you like
that sort of thing (which I obviously don't - but if you do that's your biz)
you can't call it "dance." It's being cute (people at least seem to think
it's cute) and hitting a couple of poses for the photogs with background
music that the people can clap too. Dance is movement with music...fast,
slow, balletic, jazzy, good ,bad...whatever... it MUST have phrasing, rhythm,
and flow to be "dance."
Susan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 May 1994 15:26:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Subject: O'Neill celebration
As for O'Neill having a big reaction to his rings routine....
Let the guy celebrate a little! He's 29 years old and had perhaps hit
the routine of his life (I'm not saying the best rings routine ever... just for
him) and earned a Worlds medal. When the same mailing group talks about how
stoic the women are on the medals podium and in the same day criticizes a 29
year-old for celebrating his first Worlds medal, I mean, deal people. At least
they're not doing butt-wiggling touchdown dances yet.
Though I wouldn't mind if Ioannis did one. ;-) (Hope I got the spelling
right)
Cara
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 94 23:35:30 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Observations - Men's EF
Why do commentators equate medal-winning excellence with having a move named
after you? It doesn't necessarily mean you're so great. Lots of people,
good and not so good, have stuff attributed to them in the Code. Moves with
names aren't even necessarily all that difficult or all that original (though
usually they're one or the other)
The Greek guy was just great. If artistry (or at least presentation) meant
anything, he'd have beaten Scherbo. Remind anyone else of Lubomir Gueraskov
(I think)? Somebody has to tell him not to stick his butt out like that,
though. Ballet training? Looks like it went in one ear and out the other
where that's concerned. He does it just like a girl (meant in the full,
derogatory sense of a phrase I normally find objectionable. The way girls
stick their butts out like that looks awful. The Chinese girls are the worst
that way).
Is there an explanation for why Poujade didn't win PH? I thought he was just
lovely (except for his anti-toe-point).
I bet if Scherbo actually had a son, no one would get confused and say he has
a daughter.
Shouldn't guys be required to do vaults from different groups in finals?
Why do commentators always say unstuck landings are due to inexperience? How
are landings any different from all the other stuff you have to do in a
routine?
So Bart gasped at and picked apart every little error in Chechi's set but was
utterly silent about O'Neill's form break and inferior body line (though I
did think he was pretty good nevertheless, and I think it's pretty offensive
to suggest anyone is less than human).
I swear I saw Csaba Fajkusz's name on the scoreboard during HB finals -- geez
louise, is that guy *still* around? Or was that about something else? (Alan
Nolet, too, 30th in AA Finals).
Did people notice when they showed Scherbo warming up HB Bart said he was
"already" at HB, like he'd just finished PB and run right over, like there's
no waiting for everyone else to finish PB and then the marching out and the
marching in etc.?
Is there a reason Scherbo beat Supola? I also thought Chainey looked pretty
good, even though he isn't endowed with elegant body line. At least he did
four real releases in a row. Is it actually worth the same to do Scherbo's
cheap ones?
The little beach clip -- did anyone else find offensive the way they listed
the "things" to enjoy at the beach -- surfing, sun, whatever else they
mentioned, and then women. Yep, that's why we exist -- to be men's toys at
the beach.
My god -- did you hear the World Cup theme song? Cheeze!. . .
Just remembered one thing from the women's competition -- why does Kathy
J.keep saying how gymnasts are *so* interested to see how other gymnasts make
the little adjustments during their beam routines? What-*ever* (or is it
just me?). And how other gymnasts "respect" a gymnast covering up a less
than stuck landing by saluting to the judges? In my experience, that
elicits, at best, some laughter from teammates, and from others, a somewhat
sarcastic (but not necessarily mean-spirited) "nice try" reaction.
If I had a brain, I'd have remembered I was going to spend Friday morning in
the same room with Dennis Swanson, president of ABC Sports, and I would have
put together some kind of memo reflecting the reactions to their Worlds
coverage. What do you guys think about compiling our comments and sending
them to ABC?
-- gimnasta
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 11:31:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu>
Subject: Observations - Men's EF
> The Greek guy was just great. If artistry (or at least presentation) meant
> anything, he'd have beaten Scherbo.
He looked so good! He was the only one with a halfway original floor
routine that didn't look like it was being performed by a toy soldier.
> So Bart gasped at and picked apart every little error in Chechi's set but was
> utterly silent about O'Neill's form break and inferior body line
The O'Neill thingy...ribbit, ribbit! It was positively froggy on the
overhead shot!
> What do you guys think about compiling our comments and sending them to ABC?
I think that would be a great idea! If television just changed the way it
shows baseball to try to appeal to more viewers, it should change the way
it does gymnastics too. Point #1 we should make is: We don't need to hear
"Remember, the beam is only four inches wide and four feet off the ground"
a zillion times during a show.
Also, I have a question. How come most television networks have two
expert commentators, a man and a women, and both do the women's meet but
only the man does the men's meet? Both Bart and Kathy did the women's
meet, but only Bart did the men's meet...
Lisa
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 11:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu
Subject: Observations - Men's EF
Oh yeah, one more thing...how come people kept coming in like third, but
ABC didn't think it was worth it to show them? There may have been one
instance where they didn't show the silver medalist, but I'm not sure.
I'd rather see all the medalists but not the Americans than the gold and
silver medalists and the Americans but no one else.
Lisa
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 94 12:46:10 EDT
From: ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Observations - Men's EF
>Oh yeah, one more thing...how come people kept coming in like third, but
>ABC didn't think it was worth it to show them? ...
>I'd rather see all the medalists but not the Americans than the gold and
>silver medalists and the Americans but no one else.
But we shouldn't have to make the choice. If they showed us every
medalist and every US athlete in the men's EF, that would have
been (I think) 20 routines, amounting to about 40 minutes of
coverage, which should easily fit in a 90 minute program,
with time left over for the Sports Illustrated weekly thingie,
and the horses getting ready for the Kentucky Derby, but
maybe not for cricket or that footage from an Indianapolis 500
in the 60's.
What drives me nuts is that if they wanted to, they could
show the entire EF for women (32 routines) in a 1.5 to 2 hour
slot, and the entire EF for men (48 routines) in a 2 to 2.5 hour
slot, with plenty of time for commercials and blather.
>>Kathy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 May 94 03:05:25 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Others Still Here...
>I swear I saw Csaba Fajkusz's name on the scoreboard during HB finals --
geez louise, is that guy *still* around? Or was that about something else?
(Alan Nolet, too, 30th in AA Finals).
Well you know with all those one arm releases and catchs he used to do he's
got the one arm that's never even been used yet...and he's the only cute guy
in all of Hungary! I think that Boris Preti (also in HB finals) gets the
longest run award he was in the '85 Worlds for god's sake. What about Marius
Ghermann? He was in the top 10 men's AA '88 and '92 (as was Kalofer Hristosov
who was also there). Marius still does two double doubles on floor (tucked)
and a 1 arm Def on high bar
>... I think it's pretty offensive to suggest anyone is less than human
I didn't say Paul "WAS" the missing link I said he "LOOKED" like the missing
link... besides the missing link is the beginning of humanity and therefore
human (ha! got you on a technicality...I feel like Ellen Berger) :-)
Susan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 May 94 08:44:01 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Others Still Here...
>I didn't say Paul "WAS" the missing link I said he "LOOKED" like the missing
>link...
And I quote:
>all but am I the only one that thinks Paul O'Neill IS the missing link?
>besides the missing link is the beginning of humanity and therefore
human
Ok, I'm no expert on evolution, but isn't the missing link supposed to be
between ape and human?
>(ha! got you on a technicality...I feel like Ellen Berger)
Sorry, hon. I'm more precise than that. :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 15:56:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: Random Administravia
I'm going to do another Gymn Pub posting. Been to an interesting meet
lately or just traveling around? Had anything cool happen in your
life? Celebrated your 40th birthday? Write and tell me about it!
-----
The Gymn FAQ: we've talked about doing it for a long time now, but we
keep putting it off for lack of momentum. Well, folks, I am
graduating on Saturday and I don't start my job for another two
months. Plus, I'll be spending over 130 hours traveling over the next
two months (yup, 130, about 90 of that by train, another 32 by car).
Read: I have oodles of FAQ time. But I need help! If you're willing
to help me write it over the next two months, or to read what I've
written and offer suggestions, please write me!
-----
For those of you a little caught off guard with the high traffic of
the last tw weeks, I offer the following stats (reasonably but not
totally accurate... numbers of msgs should be plus or minus ~two in
accuracy):
Date Number of Gymn msgs
......................
4/19 8 (first day of worlds qualifying)
4/20 25
4/21 30
4/22 24
4/23 20
4/24 32 (last day of worlds)
4/25 31
4/26 16
4/27 43
4/28 20
4/29 7
4/30 5
5/1 5 (but the day's not over)
For our most frequent posters, I am the winner (a dubious distinction,
eh?) with 60 msgs over that time frame. About 40 of them were
"spoils", however. Also up there were Gimnasta (44 msgs) and Susan
(43, oh so close). Then, all bunched together, we had Mara (19), Lisa
Coz. (18), George (13-almost all NCAA), and Clive (13). Should we
start a Hall of Fame? ;)
Btw, forty-four people posted in this time period. (Who can remember
when Gymn didn't even have 44 people?)
Yours in gymnastics,
Rachele
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 94 23:26:00 UTC
From: ***@genie.geis.com
Subject: Scherbo Stuff...
>since it is not a "Russian" name even the Russian newscasters mispronounce
>it as ScherbO
This has absolutely nothing to do with gymnastics, but here goes: I believe
that an unstressed "o" in Russian is pronounced like the English "a" in
"father". For example, "spasibo" (thank you) is pronounced "spa-SI-bah",
"ona" (she) is "uh-NAH", and Yurchenko is "Yur-CHEN-kah".
Privet,
Debbie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 May 94 15:35:04 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Scherbo Stuff...Me Rambling...of Course
>Maybe Scherbo should start wearing bicep bands on p-bars, too; he certainly
couldn't have done a second release move after scraping himself up on the
first.
Vitali has had that injury since '92 American Cup (when he put the double
back back in his set) and he bleeds every time he does p's...oddly enough he
does have a scar slightly above that one from where he USED to do a 1 3/4 on
p-bars back in '90 but I guess he's grown since then or something and he hits
the bars at a diff. place...It really should have scarred up buy now but he
must not practice it enough...He isn't exactly orothodox when he trains...did
you know that he doesn't where any underwear (he usually just wears the pants
with nothing underneath in training)?...Now personally I think that would be
pretty uncomfortable (not being a guy it's just a hunch)... you also think
it'd spur him on to miss pommels a little less frequently (ouch! - but I
guess he's already got that one kid as insurance)...Back to p-bars and
armbands...last year Sergei Kharkov wore the largest armbands I 've ever seen
and they covered everything BUT his scrape that dripped blood the entire
comp. (esp. nifty when he raised his arm with flowers on podium after winning
HB and blood ran down his arm). He Managed THREE (tuck and pike double back
and tuck double front..double...1 and 3... whatever) p-bar releases on his
open wound and I never really even saw him fuss with it much. Who knows about
those wacky Sovs...
>or a single restrained fist pump is sufficient (just ask Scherbo :-)).
The humor of mentioning "Scherbo" (it IS "ScherbA" {"like the sheep" as he
would say} but since it is not a "Russian" name even the Russian newscasters
mispronounce it as ScherbO) and "restrained" in the same sentance...well it's
just too much =) Also, smeone mentioned that Scherbo didn't use to be
emotional which just isn't the case...even if you go back and watch his
earliest stuff ( I'm thinking like '90 Euros and Goodwill Games) he was
always the Sov with the attitude. Remember his ten in '90? His ego has grown
and he doesn't have Arkaev waiting to shoot him for being a big dork so he's
jsut become more "Scherbo" than he already was. We also see a heck of a lot
more of him and interview him and such on TV now...People tend to forget that
he was the fav going into '91 and a very accomplished gymnast prior to the
Olympic Games where he was "discovered" by the US media.
>I think we have to keep in mind that English is not his native language, and
he may have to think a bit to find the word he wants. (The question was
something about being surprised, shocked,
or disappointed by his finish in the all around; he might
have been trying to think of how to say just what he meant
in English.) Also, he may (finally) be learning to be
a bit more careful about what he says on broadcast TV.
Actually I think he's very funny and if you've ever heard him being
interviewed you know what I mean...discretion is NOT his best subject ("I'm
going to kill you Luan"..."What are you an idiot asking me these stupid
questions?")...His English is getting quite good...In an exhib I saw him in
last Oct. he kept falling of PH in warm-ups so he started hitting the horse
and screaming F**k (watching my language for our younger Gymners) over and
over quite loudly. Well, the pommel horse just happened to be sitting in
front of the kids gym group and he was asked to watch his language.
(Boguinskyaia thought this was unbelievably funny). Nance told me that a
similar incident happened at Worlds podium training. Also, I thought it was
rather odd that after FX he screamed out something in Russian ( I can't make
it out..anyone?) and then when he saw his score he screamed "Yes" In
English...Now, I'm sure the long pauses and whatnot are due to his thinking
about things in English (after the "little piece of beef or pork" incident he
refrained from English interviews for a bit) but you can just see Bart
wanting to smack him upside the head to hurry him up and THAT was what struck
me as so funny...he also tends to ramble meaninglessly (hey like me) and they
can hardly cut the Olympic champ off in mid run-on sentance Can they?
Susan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 May 94 20:23:10 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Still Here...
Thumbing through an old "IG" today I found something rather
interesting...Boris Preti first competed in as an Int'l meet in 1981! Wow...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 May 94 7:30:05 18000
From: ***@freenet1.scri.fsu.edu
Subject: trip to worlds
Hello everyone!I got back from Australia on Friday and have been
EXTREMELY tired so I hope you'll forgive me for not writing sooner.
This trip was by far the best of all I've been on,(89,91,94.)The
gymnastics,sad to say,was the worst part of the trip.The whole meet
was rather uneventful.I think because I've been to two other worlds
has something to do with my opinion.I spoke with some "first timers"
who really enjoyed themselves,so I guess the novelty has worn off for
me.Don't get me wrong though,I did enjoy myself.I think if I hadn't
gone to and videoed every session I might have enjoyed myself a little
better.
The flight over there was verrry looong.I left the Tallahasse airport
flew 45 min to Orlando,flew from Orlando to Tampa,had a 4 hour layover
there then flew to LA where I had a 6 hour layover,flew to Hawaii
where I had an hour layover,then finally flew to Cairns.The layover in
LA wasn't bad because most of the IG tour group met there and I met a
few old friends I haven't seen in a few years(and also FINALLY met
Susan.)
When we got to Cairns our rooms weren't ready so we had to wait 6 hour
for people to check out.The hotel was the best(by far) one I've ever
stayed in.The rooms were great and the landscaping was beautiful.They
had a weight room,great food,and a fabulous pool.This was really my
favorite city of the three we went to.Here in Cairns we went to the
Lone Pine Sanctuary(or maybe it was Brisbane-sorry everything is
running together.)We were able to feed,pet,play, and take pictures
with the kangaroos.They were fenced in so we just roamed around
wherever we wanted.I expected to SEE them,but not hang out with
them.It was pretty wild.We also got to have our picture taken with
koalas.They're very cute but they have VERY sharp claws.WE also went
to the great barrier reef,where we went snorkling.I didn't go very
long because the blue bottle jellyfish were unusually thick and they
gave you a pretty good sting.I was one of the few who didn't get stung.
Now onto the gymnastics in Brisbane.As I'm sure you've heard Shannon
and Ivankov won.(These are going to be thoughts,so I'll start
rambling)Scherbo fell off pommels in prelims and LEFT the areana(and
he DIDN't get permission like the paper said.)There were about 6
people that had to get carried off the podium after they crashed(the
equipment or gymnasts doing tricks they shouldn't be?I think the
latter.)The chinese were beautiful on everything,,but they had falls
galore on (gasp) beam and floor.Definitely my favorites there.Along
with Chorkina who threw some original and difficult skills while at
the same time making them look good.She got jipped the entire meet.
The american men,with the exception of mark and paul,for lack of a
better word SUCKED.Every one fell at least once or twice and Scott
lived up to his reputation and fell four(or five) times.He fell twice
in aa and STILL ended up 13th.I think the coaches need to send him in
the first session and put a more deserving (and consistent) gymnast in
the last(John or Chainey)I'm sorry for bashing Scott but he starting
to REALLY piss me off.I have more routines of him falling throughout
his career than hitting.I am not exaggerating.I feel sorry for him and
the USGF because he's embaressed them both.Mo was the cutest gymnast
of the meet (nice gaylord.)Shannon looked blah,but hit when it
counted.They wanted Milo to win but she bobbled on beam.Dom fell again
on vault,but it was nice to see a one and a half twist instead of the
crappy half twist.The other soviets were so-so.Kotchneva did pretty
well(3 medals?)Scherbo fell in AA (better find a job)He wasn't very
happy at all on the awards stand.All the girls looked like zombies
when they went on the awards stand.I don't think they even enjoy
gymnastics anymore.
I've got to break now.I'll finish this later.I hope I don't repeat
anything.
Billy
--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 May 94 08:44:16 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: trip to worlds
>Kotchneva did pretty
well(3 medals?)
I'm sure everyone realized this was meant to say Kochetkova, but for the sake
of trivia, I thought I'd mention there is a Kotchneva (Anna) who was a
rhythmic gymnast and is married to Liukin (at least they still were last I
heard).
-- gimnasta
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 94 13:16:46 18000
From: ***@freenet1.scri.fsu.edu
Subject: trip to worlds #2
Well after looking over yesterday's letter I said basically all I
wanted to say.After I finished editing women's all around last night I
came to the conclusion that Kochetkova(thanks to the person that
corrected me) should have won.I really didn't pay much attention to
her while I was taping.If Chorkina was just a little cleaner,she
should have won.
After Brisbane we went to Sydney.We did a few sightseeing tours
here,nothing too exciting.Wait I take that back.Whenever I'm on
vacation I make it a practice to look in the phonebook for my last
name (Mispel.)It's a VERY uncommon name,so you can imagine my suprise
when I discovered one.I spoke to him over the phone,and from the
information he gave me we ARE related.That doesn't have anything to do
with gym,but I thought I'd tell you anyway.
The plane ride home was even longer than the prior flight.I got to
Tampa and my plane was cancelled.I then had a SIX hour layover there
along with the one in LA.The trip was well worth the suffering
though.I hope to go to Dortmond in November.Maybe I'll see some of you
there.Well,that's it for now,I've got one more session to edit and
I'll be done with the videos.Until then,
Billy
--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 23:55:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: Trivia?
Hey folks... looking for a new Gymn volunteer. I'm (obviously) not
doing too good of a job in keeping up to date with the Trivia. Now
that I'm going to be working on the FAQ, and with all my upcoming
travel, posting trivia regularly doesn't seem to be any more likely in
the near future. Is there a Gymner out there who would like to take
over trivia contests? It requires you to have some interest in
Gymnastics Trivia (not necessarily historical bits, but any type of
trivia) and that's about it. If you're interested, write me and we'll
talk...
Rachele
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 01:04:50 -0500
From: ***@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Uzbekistan girls
What is the deal with the Uzbekistan girls not being able to get to
Worlds on time? Last year they almost missed getting in to England
because they couldn't get a visa in time. They had to wake up the French
ambassador to wake up the British ambassador to give them visas. Now
this year they missed registering in time to compete.
Uzbekistan isn't exactly a rich nation, so they can't keep sending their
girls on trips around the world when somebody screws up and they miss
their chance to compete. (or almost miss it)
Efton
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 94 12:31:49 EDT
From: ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Worlds (random comments)
The Ukrainian leo may be gone, but the gawd-awful color scheme lives
on in their warmup jackets. (Misiutin was wearing one when he
was shown on ABC congratulating Scherbo after one of Vitaly's
wins in EF.)
How long will it take the ABC announcers (not to mention the
announcer in Brisbane itself) to figure out how to pronounce
Scherbo's name? (Actually, it could take forever. In 1976,
the announcers for ABC couldn't pronounce her name correctly
even after asking the Romanians how to do it, and for years
afterward, you frequently heard an extra "ee" sound tacked
on the end.) I suppose Scherbo must be resigned to it
by now, but I can't imagine he's pleased!
Susan commented on that long pause Scherbo took in responding
to one of the interview questions. I think we have to keep
in mind that English is not his native language, and he
may have to think a bit to find the word he wants. (The
question was something about being surprised, shocked,
or disappointed by his finish in the all around; he might
have been trying to think of how to say just what he meant
in English.) Also, he may (finally) be learning to be
a bit more careful about what he says on broadcast TV.
The Greek guy on floor exercise was most impressive in his
front tumbling. Even though Umphrey's four release moves
in a row were fine, was there anything else in the
routine besides the dismount? (No Stalders, no inverts, etc.)
It made it seem short and a bit blah. It was really a
shame about Huang on pommel horse; up until that problem
with the handstand, it was a marvelous routine. One
split second of missed concentration or imbalance, and
you find yourself in 6th. Maybe Scherbo should start
wearing bicep bands on p-bars, too; he certainly couldn't
have done a second release move after scraping himself up
on the first.
Like gimnasta, I didn't understand the comment about
unstuck landings being due to inexperience. Was the
intended meaning something like "If you've spent an
extra 4 or 5 years doing vaults, you've got more practice
in knowing just where you are at all times, and how to
adjust to get a stuck landing" or perhaps "If you've
spent an extra 4 or 5 years competing at serious
meets, you've got more practice in not letting the
pressure interfere with doing your routine perfectly"?
Oh, well, sports announcers are always saying things
that don't actually make sense.
Just to be fair to Bart Conner, Paul O'Neill wasn't
the only gymnast whose form breaks went unmentioned;
some non-US gymnasts made mistakes that went unnoted.
And Chechi is so good that his small mistakes stand
out all the more.
That one slo-mo/freeze-frame shot of Paul O'Neill
at and right after his dismount from rings certainly
made him look _intense_. Actually, I think he overdid
the macho self-congratulatory gestures. Gymnasts
from other countries who don't watch US football players
must wonder what on earth is going on. A smug nod,
fist tap into open palm, or single restrained fist pump
is sufficient (just ask Scherbo :-)).
>>Kathy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 13:51:34 +1000
From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject: Worlds (random comments)
>That one slo-mo/freeze-frame shot of Paul O'Neill
>at and right after his dismount from rings certainly
>made him look _intense_. Actually, I think he overdid
>the macho self-congratulatory gestures. Gymnasts
>from other countries who don't watch US football players
>must wonder what on earth is going on. A smug nod,
>fist tap into open palm, or single restrained fist pump
>is sufficient (just ask Scherbo :-)).
>
>>>Kathy
Yes, but if you know Paul at all you know that he was genuinely pleased
with his performance and felt really good. So, maybe he overdid it a bit,
but he has always been very demonstrative of his feelings regarding his
routine - good or bad. He doesn't have the international experience of
Sherbo - plus, if you remember correctly a few years ago Sherbo didn't show
any emotion regarding his routines - so obviously his working at Woodward
and Penn State is influencing his TV - America personality.
Mayland
------------------------------
End of gymn Digest
******************************